pre abortion ultrasounds no changing statistics on abortion

So far 20 states now have laws that encourage or require the use of such images, but the anti abortion supporters desirable results has not been achieved so far.

Women that are forced to have an ultrasound before abortion has not changed their minds about abortions.

Interesting, even I believe that this could change women's mind.

In one of the few studies of the issue — there have been none in the United States — two abortion clinics in British Columbia found that 73 percent of patients wanted to see an image if offered the chance. Eighty-four percent of the 254 women who viewed sonograms said it did not make the experience more difficult, and none reversed her decision.

Is this becoming a waste of money and time?

“About half of women opt to view them,” said Diane Derzis, who owns the Birmingham clinic. “And I’ve never had one patient get off the table because she saw what her fetus looks like.”

So it seems that when a women is set to have an abortion and makes it mind not ultrasound can change that decision, this no the desirable outcome expected

Some women even welcome to ultrasound because it makes them safe to have the abortion

So the purpose of ultrasounds is to make women change their minds but when a fetus is too early it doesn't have any form, most women have abortion very early in pregnancy and not too many later on, that could be the reason the ultrasounds are not changing women's mind about having abortions.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Yeah i read that earlier this morning. So i followed the link and low and behold i found that msnbc once AGAIN edited/left out a bit more of the story.

It had happened occasionally, they said, when a sonogram revealed a multiple pregnancy or when a woman was already deeply unsure about her choice.

But a number of women at the Birmingham clinic, which was the site of a fatal bombing in 1998, said they simply did not want to subject themselves to images that might haunt them. “You almost have to think of it as an alien,” said Carmen, 28, who was there for her second abortion in three years.

Anything to make sure no dissenting opinion even in the slightest degree that is held gets shown!

But my question is....if all pro-choice people say the baby is just a 'clump of cells' and is not 'alive' then why is many of those having these abortions and i "leaving in tears"?

Many left in tears

I'll tell you why...because YOU KNOW IT IS WRONG!!!

The whole pro-choice crowd KNOWS what they support is wrong....but they dont care. Thats why so many pro-choicers have to dehuminize the fetus.

Does not matter if its human and ALIVE.....you pro-choicers argue semantics. We know its human...we know its alive and growing. so you compare it with a parasite or tumor. We know it has a heartbeat so you say it does not have conciousness so killing it is okay.

ARE YOU PEOPLE INSANE?

And she felt that seeing the image of her bean-size fetus would only unleash her already hormonal emotions, without changing her mind.

Why should it make you cry? I THOUGHT IS WAS JUST A CLUMP OF CELLS!

Like i said before...because deep down you know it is wrong.

Leaving this comment off i have just one more thing to add.

You almost have to think of it as an alien,” said Carmen, 28

Of course you do...if you admitted to yourself that it is a growing human baby it would derail the pro-choice movement and would shift perceptions worldwide.

[edit on 28-5-2010 by tauempire]

Originally posted by tauempire
Yeah i read that earlier this morning. So i followed the link and low and behold i found that msnbc once AGAIN edited/left out a bit more of the story.

It had happened occasionally, they said, when a sonogram revealed a multiple pregnancy or when a woman was already deeply unsure about her choice.

But a number of women at the Birmingham clinic, which was the site of a fatal bombing in 1998, said they simply did not want to subject themselves to images that might haunt them. “You almost have to think of it as an alien,” said Carmen, 28, who was there for her second abortion in three years.

Anything to make sure no dissenting opinion even in the slightest degree that is held gets shown!

But my question is....if all pro-choice people say the baby is just a 'clump of cells' and is not 'alive' then why is many of those having these abortions and i "leaving in tears"?

Many left in tears

I'll tell you why...because YOU KNOW IT IS WRONG!!!

The whole pro-choice crowd KNOWS what they support is wrong....but they dont care. Thats why so many pro-choicers have to dehuminize the fetus.

Does not matter if its human and ALIVE.....you pro-choicers argue semantics. We know its human...we know its alive and growing. so you compare it with a parasite or tumor. We know it has a heartbeat so you say it does not have conciousness so killing it is okay.

ARE YOU PEOPLE INSANE?

And she felt that seeing the image of her bean-size fetus would only unleash her already hormonal emotions, without changing her mind.

Why should it make you cry? I THOUGHT IS WAS JUST A CLUMP OF CELLS!

Like i said before...because deep down you know it is wrong.

Leaving this comment off i have just one more thing to add.

You almost have to think of it as an alien,” said Carmen, 28

Of course you do...if you admitted to yourself that it is a growing human baby it would derail the pro-choice movement and would shift perceptions worldwide.

[edit on 28-5-2010 by tauempire]

Excellent post! All the "what about rape victims" arguments couldn't match that post sir! There is a push amongst young people (I'm 25) to view children as a truly bad thing, just as marriage has been made to be a bad thing. Its not universal, but its very apparent. The mental gymnastics needed to go through and support abortion is ludicrous.

[edit on 28-5-2010 by SmokeandShadow]

I really dont see how looking at an ultrasound in early pregnancy could make a woman change her mind about having an abortion, have you seen early ultrasounds? its very hard to make out a recognizable baby form in them, if anything it probably reinforces the womans decision to have the abortion. I'll admit if the ultrasound looked like a cute little curled up baby pic then maybe that 'might' sway a womans decision, but thats not the case.

Abortion is still illegal here unless the pregnancy is endangering the womans life.

IMO i think it should be made legal.

i think they should have to be put in some kind of database like sex offenders, or have it on their criminal record if they get an abortion.

sure you dont have to serve time or pay a fine or anything, but i think employers(and potential future partners) should have the right to know if they are hiring(or dating) an irresponsible murderer


womans right to chose? hah, fine.

employers right to chose.

good luck making money without "soliciting your services" (how appropriate) or working with other irresponsible murderers.


and before all you whiners start flaming me saying it has nothing to do with job experience, it has EVERYTHING to do with responsibility, which believe it or not is required for some job positions

reply to post by tauempire


Oh for goodness sake, get off your high horse and jump back into reality.

It IS a woman's choice what she does to her body or the life within it. Do not tell me that I, as a woman should not have that choice.

There are circumstances and situations around abortions that you could not even fathom.

It's no one else's buisness or interest what another person does, especially when it has NOTHING to do with anyone else.

You pro-lifers need to find some balance in your arguments.

Wow. You all are acting like immature children. My fiance was raped by an ex boyfriend, which resulted in an abortion. At no time did I have the nerve to call her an "irresponsible murderer". She gave birth to our son, who is happy, healthy, and enjoys his loving mother. You all should think about what you say before you say it. Then again, by saying what you did it's obvious you don't care anyways. Continue on bashing women for making a personal decision.

I believe the ultrasound regulations was more to target late term pregnancies that those early on, as the fetus in a late pregnancy have more of the shape of a baby to be.

And early pregnancy is hard to distinguish the form of the fetus causing the pregnant women to feel more detach from the pregnancy.

Still is some states that will refuse abortion on rape victims cause them to seek abortion on other states.

Originally posted by LurkerMan
i think they should have to be put in some kind of database like sex offenders, or have it on their criminal record if they get an abortion.

sure you dont have to serve time or pay a fine or anything, but i think employers(and potential future partners) should have the right to know if they are hiring(or dating) an irresponsible murderer

womans right to chose? hah, fine.

employers right to chose.

good luck making money without "soliciting your services" (how appropriate)

or working with other irresponsible murderers.


and before all you whiners start flaming me saying it has nothing to do with job experience, it has EVERYTHING to do with responsibility, which believe it or not is required for some job positions

That has to be one of the most backward statements i have ever read.

Hang on a second and i'll tell every young woman who is considering having an abortion not to bother, that you will look after all the babies instead, that you will help them out through their pregnancys, financially and emotionally, help them get back into college afterwards, okay? do you want to do that?

Thought not!

It IS the womans right to choose.

reply to post by newBodyoldSoul


I am very happy for you and the mother of your child, I also had a friend that was raped by her boyfriend, and he was the first man she had sex with and was not by choice, at least she didn't got pregnant from the ordeal and she said that if she did she would never have a child by him.

I am all abortions on rape victims and health related reasons, also I am very much pro choice regardless, but oppose late term abortions.



[edit on 28-5-2010 by marg6043]

reply to post by Lady_Tuatha


how is the woman not taking all that into consideration BEFORE she has sex, not irresponsible?

im not talking about rape.

::edit to add:: and also before you blow your lid, im looking at this from an employers standpoint, as i hope to be a successful employer someday. do i not have the right to choose who i associate with to become successful?

so essentially, i as an employer can look at your facebook and see the entire night of indulgence that lead up the abortion. i can have my opinion on the drinking and obscene comments and pictures and bar you from the position, and thats all well and good. but take it to the actual sexual act later on in the same night, and the abortion following shortly after, and i have to hold my tongue? give me a break.

now whos backwards

[edit on 28-5-2010 by LurkerMan]

[edit on 28-5-2010 by LurkerMan]

Originally posted by LurkerMan
im not talking about rape.

Unfortunately, you can't put a puzzle together and leave a few pieces out. Rape is part of the world we live in today, so we can't be the ostrich and stick our heads in the sand about it.

Originally posted by Isis_Is_I
reply to post by tauempire

 

Oh for goodness sake, get off your high horse and jump back into reality.

It IS a woman's choice what she does to her body or the life within it. Do not tell me that I, as a woman should not have that choice.

There are circumstances and situations around abortions that you could not even fathom.

It's no one else's buisness or interest what another person does, especially when it has NOTHING to do with anyone else.

You pro-lifers need to find some balance in your arguments.

Like what? That the the majority of abortions are just because a women does not want the child at that time? The baby is not a womens property. The baby is a seperate entity of its own. So a women should not be able to "do what she wants with her body and WHATS IN IT".

Did you read what you just wrote? it does not matter if its alive and growing.

Its my body and i'll kill if i want to= perfect portrayel of pro-choicers attitudes.



[edit on 28-5-2010 by tauempire]

reply to post by newBodyoldSoul


im pretty sure abortions do not prevent rape.

rape is a horrid act, but the intent is on the Raper not the rapee. so for me to consider somebody being raped irresponsible would be rather foolish correct? yes correct. a little common sense would be appreciated.


::ps:: simply accepting that rape is part of this world also does not make it go away.

let me make this clear.

if the woman intended on having sex, she is fully responsible.

if she did not intend on having sex, she is not responsible.

any drugs or alcohol voids the second part. unless said drugs/alcohol were also forced into her.

[edit on 28-5-2010 by LurkerMan]

Originally posted by newBodyoldSoul

Originally posted by LurkerMan
im not talking about rape.

Unfortunately, you can't put a puzzle together and leave a few pieces out. Rape is part of the world we live in today, so we can't be the ostrich and stick our heads in the sand about it.

That may be so...but abortions from rape are less then 5%. The majority are just because immature women dont want the child.They cant handle responsablity.

I think if women wants to get a abortion and it is not because of rape they need to have there tubes tied.

Why? because if they did not know how to use birth control(GIVEN FREELY)or have there partner wear a condom before the act...then they will NEVER be ready for motherhood. Its not that hard people.

I only support abortions for medical reasons and rape...which just happens to be less then(like i said before)5% of ALL abortions.

[edit on 28-5-2010 by tauempire]

Originally posted by Lady_Tuatha

Originally posted by LurkerMan
i think they should have to be put in some kind of database like sex offenders, or have it on their criminal record if they get an abortion.

sure you dont have to serve time or pay a fine or anything, but i think employers(and potential future partners) should have the right to know if they are hiring(or dating) an irresponsible murderer

womans right to chose? hah, fine.

employers right to chose.

good luck making money without "soliciting your services" (how appropriate)

or working with other irresponsible murderers.


and before all you whiners start flaming me saying it has nothing to do with job experience, it has EVERYTHING to do with responsibility, which believe it or not is required for some job positions

That has to be one of the most backward statements i have ever read.

Hang on a second and i'll tell every young woman who is considering having an abortion not to bother, that you will look after all the babies instead, that you will help them out through their pregnancys, financially and emotionally, help them get back into college afterwards, okay? do you want to do that?

Thought not!

It IS the womans right to choose.

Yes but why must it be death? I figured a person from ireland would understand....

Originally posted by LurkerMan
reply to post by Lady_Tuatha

 

how is the woman not taking all that into consideration BEFORE she has sex, not irresponsible?

im not talking about rape.

::edit to add:: and also before you blow your lid, im looking at this from an employers standpoint, as i hope to be a successful employer someday. do i not have the right to choose who i associate with to become successful?


now whos backwards

[edit on 28-5-2010 by LurkerMan]

A high majority of women have abortions so that they can continue on with their education and/or careers so that they may become more successful themselves, in some cases having the child would hinder that success.

If i had a daughter who got pregnant and wanted an abortion then you could be damn sure that i would support her decision if thats what she wanted to do.

And yes people make mistakes, a girl forgetting to take one of her contraceptive pills, a guy not wearing a condom, too much alcohol, there is many factors that can lead to an unwanted pregnancy.

Why should a young woman have to be forced to leave her studies/job and raise a kid as the result of one mistake, when it doesnt have to be that way?

Yeah it is backwards.

an btw when you start employing people are you going to question every single male employee? ask them in their late teens or 20's have they ever had unprotected drunken sex? even once? and if they answer yes do they not qualify for the job position?

edit to add this- and if your talking about responsibility then how is having a child when you have no viable means to support and raise that child how is that being responsible?, IMO having an abortion when you are not ready emotionally or financially to raise a kid is being responsible.

[edit on 28-5-2010 by Lady_Tuatha]

reply to post by Lady_Tuatha


im sorry, i thought people were responsible for their actions.

at least...thats what the judge told me last time i went to court.



and im not saying anybody should be subject to anything, other than having to live with their actions.

if its such a big deal, dont have sex.

every single argument you've presented thus far begins in the context that pregnancy "just happened" to the girl. you act like women are completely incapable of NOT HAVING SEX.


nobody just "Gets pregnant" without divine intervention. your speaking of it like its the common cold.

::response to your edit:: dont have sex. or make sure your covered. prevention is really simple.

[edit on 28-5-2010 by LurkerMan]

Originally posted by Lady_Tuatha

Originally posted by LurkerMan
reply to post by Lady_Tuatha

 

how is the woman not taking all that into consideration BEFORE she has sex, not irresponsible?

im not talking about rape.

::edit to add:: and also before you blow your lid, im looking at this from an employers standpoint, as i hope to be a successful employer someday. do i not have the right to choose who i associate with to become successful?


now whos backwards

[edit on 28-5-2010 by LurkerMan]

A high majority of women have abortions so that they can continue on with their education and/or careers so that they may become more successful themselves, in some cases having the child would hinder that success.

If i had a daughter who got pregnant and wanted an abortion then you could be damn sure that i would support her decision if thats what she wanted to do.

And yes people make mistakes, a girl forgetting to take one of her contraceptive pills, a guy not wearing a condom, too much alcohol, there is many factors that can lead to an unwanted pregnancy.

Why should a young woman have to be forced to leave her studies/job and raise a kid as the result of one mistake, when it doesnt have to be that way?

Yeah it is backwards.

an btw when you start employing people are you going to question every single male employee? ask them in their late teens or 20's have they ever had unprotected drunken sex? even once? and if they answer yes do they not qualify for the job position?

so what your saying is that your selfish? Thats what it sounds like to me. Forget that what you have is a child growing in your womb. Forget that its half of you. Forget that its a child....YOUR child.

If it hinders your success just abort it.

This is the mentality of pro-choicers. You have a very seared conscious.

No empathy or anything.

Yep...you can rerget that you got pregnant....but no regrets from abortion.....*sigh* im losing faith in women.

[edit on 28-5-2010 by tauempire]

[edit on 28-5-2010 by tauempire]

reply to post by LurkerMan


Yeah but at the end of the day its done, the girl is pregnant, so whats better for that girl now? to raise a kid that she does not want? when she does not have the means to? when she would be throwing away her studies/career? when she does not have to.

Its HER choice, its HER life.

Yes its irresponsible to get pregnant when you are not planning it, but it is also irresponsible to bring an unwanted child into the world.