Setback delays 'top kill' effort to seal leak

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
I'm starting to think they might need to try some type of powerful explosive, like the Russians suggested.

It would have to be set off deep in the ocean floor adjacent to the well and hopefully cause the ocean floor to collapse in on the well.

Sorry but the Russians don't want to help, at least the government. Using explosives would be the worse they can do. The last piece of information the Russians gave to the U.S. government was that Saddam was preparing terrorist attacks against U.S. soil since 9/11 and up to the beginning of the war.

Not only that, the Russian government was passing U.S. movement troop to Saddam's regime, yet you want to trust them in their claims that nukes will stop this?.... Using a nuke, or nukes will make things worse...not better...

[edit on 27-5-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


I don't want to use a nuke, just a powerful earth penetrating explosive. A nuke would probably be overkill. This would be more precise, something to push the sea floor and collapse the well.

reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne


ATS has already solved the flaws in their methods:

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
For those of you concerned that the Top Kill won't work, over in the SOLUTIONS thread we've come up with a better set of method than 'junk shot' mud. Basically feed and twist up metal wire into wherever it can be fed in, from above the BOP, while replacing the 'junk' with rare earth magnets and teflon, while a massive magnet is stuck to the BOP itself magnetizing it. Then feeding in epoxy paste behind all that mess.

[edit on 27-5-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


I'm not knocking anyone's ideas on how to solve this because anything that has a chance of working is worth trying...

BUT...

The realist/scientific part of me begs the questions:

1) What makes you think the equipment they have is capable of moving the material being referred to without the magnets sticking to the inside of the pipes?

2) Teflon and epoxy need time to bind; at that pressure, we have no idea how either will hold or if the chemical reactions needed to cause a binding reaction are even possible?

3) Who on planet earth has been to a depth of 5000 feet or worked under those pressures to have any idea what will or won't work?

Everything they are trying right now is a GUESS, at best. None of these methods have ever been attempted at these depths, and even when attempted on the surface under lesser pressures, these same methods have failed. I have no confidence that anyone has a "sure" way to solve this.

We can't even get an estimate of the PSI down there, which would tell us quite a bit. If it's even close to the estimates that some scientists are speculating on, there is nothing that can be pushed into the well head or BOP without being destroyed or pushed out under the immense pressure. Most of the things they would pump down there could do more damage than good.

I wish you're info from the other post inspired me more, but I'm sorry to say, I am feeling a greater feeling of impending doom as the hours and days roll on.

~Namaste

reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne


Read the thread. There are always technical workarounds, especially when you profit over $100 billion a year.

Basically modify the pipe after that manifold thing, replacing that section with thick schedule 80 PVC, or something better such as aluminum or titanium. Have it where you can feed in a 1" probe pipe that can snake into the BOP. Then have a sort of 'hopper' that feeds REM spheres with teflon spheres spacing them so that they dont stick together in the hopper line.

This way they can still run the mud system, which is helping to hold back the oil, and as it starts to hold back the leaking start sending in the epoxy.

Solid teflon doesn't exactly bind, and is one of the last things that would disintegrate. There are wide range of epoxies, including epoxy 'dough' which is like nearly-hard clay. The pressure could smoosh it to activate it while getting clogged up between rare earth magnets, twisted up metal wire, teflon, and other metal chunks getting stuck to the magnetized BOP chamber.

Another idea found in the other solutions thread was a sort of paste of rare earth magnet powder. Mix that powder into the epoxy, perhaps.

BP is using an old unproven idea without modern science and materials.

[edit on 27-5-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Originally posted by ChrisCrikey
reply to post by Erasurehead

 

The investment class probably needed time to adjust so yeah if they delay giving pertinent information to the general public someone else is making money off of that...Is the prime motivation the stock market always has been always will be even in the face of a national and more than likely international catastrophe? Yeah, I know that sounds naive.


I'm also thinking someone might argue that it is a matter of national security to suppress information or release it in a timed fashion as a matter of national security. I wish we could trust someone in the know.

This site has had some very good stuff on it.
FireDogLake

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne
Here it is folks...

Setback delays 'top kill' effort to seal leak

Hold on to your hats....

~Namaste

Where being conned people, truly conned. Something hit me after reading this post and the others and it had to do with the color of the oil, the main leak and the con job of them stopping the mud at 12:00 this morning. Okay we are assuming that the orange stuff coming out is mud at the top of the BOP and we believe that because it's ORANGE of course and that we see an increase in flow and that even I have assumed that oil is black when it comes out of the ground etc. etc.. It's not, it all depends on the deposit and where it's located at. Most of th video and pictures you see of the gulf and in the gulf and on the shoreline has oil caked on stuff but its a deep orange/brown color before it goes black if ever. I'll post a link to an article explaining why this oil is orange. I had to go back and look for a video I saw that showed the BOP as we see it today on May 15 and 16th shooting out oil. I didn't think anything about it until the discussion about the mud and it showed the oil coming out and it was orange as anything we see right now and during the mud application.



As you can see from the video of the BOP you see the riser (get to later) bent and going to the ground and the rupture at the top feeding into the riser and out the cracks and openings. At the beginning of the video you see the plume but its hard to tell what color it is, it almost looks like the same color as the plume coming out of the riser which is on the ground in that crater. It all has to do with lighting and shadow, if the camera and light are far enough away it looks like a grey ash cloud at best and with less light a dark black cloud like where used to seeing oil look like. But if you go to the 2:20 mark you will be right at the head of the BOP and see the orange coming out (this was 10 days before the addition of mud). What else do you see, you see real dark orange plume on the right side and a lighter plume on the left side. Both mind you are coming out at a very very fast rate (remember this looks big because of the frame of reference which is no reference, but the top of the BOP which is leaking is smaller than a breakfast table).

So two things are coincidental, the mud that they put down in the system is orange also and the pressure that was used to push the oil down the system is at the same pressure that the oil and gas which is coming out of the BOP. Thats BS, I think that they are scared to even try the mud because they don't think that the BOP can handle the pressure (do we even know what it's design rating is). The reason why they went to the edge of this massive deposit (estimated to produce 500,000 barrels a day 10 to 15 years) is because the central pressure for the deposit was 165,000 to 170,000 psi. We don't know (except for BP) how much pressure is coming out of that pipe at that spot, but it's most likely at the pressure rating of the BOP.

www.jones-act-maritime-lawyer.com...

www.slate.com...

www.viewzone2.com...

The reason why they are running around and not letting outside scientists and reporters (can you believe that, not allowing scientists to come and/or help) is because it's alot worse than what they are letting on (If you don't believe me google reporters being threatened with arrest in the Gulf and/or reporters being discriminated).

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

I don't want to use a nuke, just a powerful earth penetrating explosive. A nuke would probably be overkill. This would be more precise, something to push the sea floor and collapse the well.

To much methane!! ... The flash point for methane to go from solid to gas is not too far from what is below the sea off shore in the Atlantic ... Heat down there is not a good idea. Methane = everything breathing the air it replaces dies, too!! And it could "replace ... in a hurry"!! Remember the evacuation talk?

Putting a bomb inside the well ... and letting it go off well under ground can fuse the top of the salt dome ... and vitrify it, causing sealing (and no re-drilling in this area) .. so maybe we will get "closure" after the other wells connect? HOWEVER ... this is also very, very risky, the expansion of the solid methane (and this is a VERY rich methane deposit_) could just make more issues ... ones they could not handle!!

There is a very large amount of Crude on the bottom off of Delaware .. it can be picked up by a pumping ship and used, but right now they are accusing BP of not telling about another rupture 6 miles away. Maybe Cousteau would do up a video on this as well?
Catch the Video in the page on the "seabed oil slick off Delaware":

Since these are competing oil company execs, I am not believing all they say without more data.

Has anyone seen any Sat Tracking of this stuff? ... esp the stuff underwater with the dispersant in it?

reply to post by Serendipity7


So an explosive may cause a massive methane release, which could then suffocate anything living along the gulf coast.

How about my second idea?

1 Ultra Large Crude Carrer, aka Super Tanker
500,000 deadweight metric tons of cement and rock.

Sink it right on top of the well.

I have mixed vibes about this ... the innocent part wants to push and support the organism that can eat the hydrocarbons out of the seawater and help the alga and plankton grow back ...

The saner side of me wonders if this could get in all the shallow offshore wells, and eat them dry, and thus create a lot of very, very angry shallow seas oilmen crying out for retribution and remunerations ...which could not be provided ...

There is no data on whether the organism can penetrate a well.

Still ... if your pool or your local lake or your marina are fouled up .. you will have this knowledge to use:

Save Money, go Simple, go GREEN!!

reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne


Shredded truck tires are pretty sturdy trash ... The only thing is Oil is pretty slippery stuff.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


I had an idea like that a few days back ... using a deep water sub which was retired -- with a hole cut in the bottom, and then cemented to the ocean floor!
...
But alas .. the pressure of the well head might be more than the pressure the Sub or the Tanker could handle (170,000 PSI) ... And of course F-BP does want their well .. right? (mods that is 'freaking' not ...)

There is a bottom sitting (lying on the ocean floor) mass of oil off the Delaware coast ... US oilmen want to say this is from another rupture, (that Earthquake?) which is 6 miles from the current debacle!

Catch this video on the Crude on the seabed:

We sure are getting our Oil Primer Schooling .. and I did not even know this existed until a few days back (and my Mother is a news-a-holic). (Which makes me wonder how the U_crane is doing.) But we turn in our Cable Box for the Summer ... so it does not interfere with lovely summer weather and hours. Now I am 2ce as long at the PC ... Oh well. -- ooops!!! ..

reply to post by MikeboydUS


If BP cannot control this the U.S. Navy will take over and this is what they will do. They will sink a battleship on top of the leak. But this is also risky as they have to guide the ship down and it might not work.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by MikeboydUS

 

If BP cannot control this the U.S. Navy will take over and this is what they will do. They will sink a battleship on top of the leak. But this is also risky as they have to guide the ship down and it might not work.

In Mobile Bay, Alabama a retired WWII battleship, the USS Alabama rests as a museum.

They might be able to use that, but I would prefer if BP supplied a super tanker.

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne
reply to post by [davinci]

 

Star for you my friend! I think you're spot on...

It's always about the money. In this case, BP is a backbone corporation for the UK and with the Euro teetering on the edge of the abyss, I think they are doing everything they can to inflate their stock prices artificially while the "money men" think of another scam to cover the bottom line and keep the Euro from crashing and starting the second half of the double-dip recession, leading to full blown world-wide depression.

This all stinks to holy hell. I feel like I'm watching someone (America) commit suicide by a thousand small cuts. I know most people feel helpless to do anything, but there has to be something we can do, and I mean DO NOW, that will light the fire under their ass. I knew that live video was suspicious as soon as I woke up this morning and last night, myself (and another poster) saw the video being looped, which was likely when they stopped pumping. And with out pumping more mud down there, everything they already pumped in will get blown back out by the gas and oil. Completely pointless!

Like I said before, seems like an experiment... test, observe, gather data, stop said test, gather more data, formulate hypothesis/theory, rinse and repeat. They're going to pump more mud tomorrow, even though it didn't work today? It infuriates me that they (BP and TPTB) really think we are THAT stupid.

Watch the stock market tomorrow, I bet it tanks on this news alone.

~Namaste

What can I say, I'm a prophet...

Oh wait, that was part of the script. Dow down 120+ points today.

~Namaste

[edit on 28-5-2010 by SonOfTheLawOfOne]

The junkshot will do the trick. Its gonna stop the leak for 70-90% and epoxy close it forever and 100%.
The topkill had no chance at all, to much pressure.
Just my gutfeeling here. I worked with high pressure, pipes, concrete and underwater: if they can shoot in pieces of rubber, magnets and junk it will work. It has to work.....

reply to post by ahamarlin


They already did the junk shot last night... now they are pumping mud.

Look at the video and tell me if you think it worked.

edit: that information is according to Suttles.

~Namaste



[edit on 28-5-2010 by SonOfTheLawOfOne]