Chemtrailers: Your time is NOW!

reply to post by Tryptych


This bears repeating....

... and it looked like the whole sky was checkered.
.... but all I know it's not normal air traffic.

Gentle readers, again....airplanes fly in many, many different directions, and depending on your location different routes will cross over and under each other.

Stars15k put up an excellent video upthread (I think it was this thread?) depicting it.

I can provide a link for people to look through, to see actual aviation navigational charts, to see how many upper level Jet Airways are layed out:

www.skyvector.com...

I've brought that link to the discussion so many times already...just play around in it, to learn it. (The charts have legends on the end panels, also, to decode a lot of the arcane symbols and provide basic explanations).

For non-pilots, just think of the airspace and route structure in terms of a "three-dimensional roadmap", if that helps.

reply to post by weedwhacker

Nope. Apparently reading comprehension is lacking, at this time. Try again later.

Oh yes. Aparrently, your reality comprehension is non-existant.

Again....what is so "SECRET" when it is so obvious?? Doesn't that seem the least bit illogical to anyone?

Logical fallacy.

Just because people can see it and guess at it's nature, doesn't mean they are going to disclose what they are potentially doing, at what for, to the public.

I made a challenge, before, to calculate the ENTIRE area of the earth's surface. What people who get all het up over (the so-called "chemtrails") don't realize is they are seeing just a SMALL area affected....but, to them, when looking up, it seems like it's the whole world, I guess.

I think that a google search would suffice.

AH! A possible crack in the door (or the clouds)... Contrails DO contribute to an increase in overall cloud cover, at times (but not always, again it depends on upper level air mass conditions).

Well, I've already said before in this thread that my stance is more towards weather manipulation being performed, than the spraying of poisons.

I'm talking about clouds forming from contrails, eventually filling the whole sky with hazy looking shards of clouds.

A while ago with air traffic down in Europe, we had 3 unbelievably blue, clear days, not a single cloud to be seen.

Off course the weather was good, but with planes flying, the sky would've clouded up, we simply don't normally get these clear completely blue days anymore.

We used to when I was a child




[edit on 1-6-2010 by Point of No Return]

reply to post by Point of No Return


Ah, good old England.

Sorry about your inconvenient location, but the UK gets a LOT of air traffic overhead...as you stated, the grounding of flights during the volcanic ash incident meant that there were no contrails, so that was a big change from the normal.

BUT, you could have very easily had poor weather, anyway...it was just coincidence no major storms or fronts moved in, during that period. Perhaps Essan, since he's UK-based, will have some historical meteorological records on that....

Back to "business-as-usual" over the UK, though. In another thread I showed people WHY the skies over England get so much air traffic.

HERE it is. It's long, and detailed. Again, has to be long, since it's technical, so that (hopefully) the layperson can understand what every airline pilot who flies Internationally already does....

[edit on 1 June 2010 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by weedwhacker

Sorry about your inconvenient location, but the UK gets a LOT of air traffic overhead...as you stated, the grounding of flights during the volcanic ash incident meant that there were no contrails, so that was a big change from the normal. BUT, you could have very easily had poor weather, anyway...it was just coincidence no major storms or fronts moved in, during that period. Perhaps Essan, since he's UK-based, will have some historical meteorological records on that....

The Netherlands actually.

And no it wasn't just the good weather that caused the blue skies. We haven't had these for a long time, and now by coincidence, it happens when plains are grounded, and it's business as usual the day they start flying again?

Also there is a difference between normal cloud cover, and clouds that are initiated by contrails.

[edit on 1-6-2010 by Point of No Return]

reply to post by Point of No Return

The Netherlands actually.

Close enough...perhaps in an hour oh so you'll have read the post I linked, up above...because I don't think you absorbed it in only the six minutes you took to respond, there....

Didja know, BTW, that the RVSM separation standards of 1,000 feet were first implemented in Europe, well before the USA?

BECAUSE there is so much traffic in Europe, and skies continue to be so crowded, they needed relief, altitude-wise, in order to accomodate everyone.

Read the link. (Which focuses on the UK, but looking at it, and if you look for aviation charts for Europe High airspace too, it will all fit together).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Did it for you (with a little Google help...):

www.ais-netherlands.nl...

When you go to that link, go to "ENS 6 - Charts". You can navigate ( ) from there, hopefully should be intuitive.





[edit on 1 June 2010 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by weedwhacker

Close enough...perhaps in an hour oh so you'll have read the post I linked, up above...because I don't think you absorbed it in only the six minutes you took to respond, there....

The first pic on that page is what I'm talking about. You say it's just normal contails, but what is so normal about the whole sky being clouded up by these contrail induced clouds.

Dudja know, BTW, that the RVSM separation standards of 1,000 feet were first implemented in Europe, well before the USA?

I sure didn't, how terribly interesting, Fascinating,

Did it for you (with a little Google help...):

Thanks I guess, not sure what do with that.

I will do some reading in that thread.

Originally posted by Point of No Return

The first pic on that page is what I'm talking about. You say it's just normal contails, but what is so normal about the whole sky being clouded up by these contrail induced clouds.

Well natural cirrus does do that - but contrails have been doing it for decades, hence all those studies into how and why it happened and the consequences for weather and climate carried out in the 60s and 70s.

It may not be normal, but it's not exactly new!

Originally posted by weedwhacker

BUT, you could have very easily had poor weather, anyway...it was just coincidence no major storms or fronts moved in, during that period. Perhaps Essan, since he's UK-based, will have some historical meteorological records on that....

We were lucky with the weather, but it was very noticeable that the skies were much clearer than we normally get - even when no obvious contrails form, there is always some visible cirrus generated by commerical airliners.

This study published in 2007 is worth reading.

reply to post by Essan


No, it's not new, but lately it's getting a bit dramatic, with the whole sky full of contrail induced clouds.

It's just not right.

The "evolution" of chemtrails.
(Cue the music from "The Twilight Zone", Or "Outer Limits" for those that are old enough.)
Anyway, the "evolution",
1. What? Nothing but clouds up there, lol. You're seeing things.
2. Chaff.
3. Contrails, nothing but contrails. Nothing new, lol.
4. Persistent contrails that do not go away but expand into clouds and gradually drift blocking out the sun have ALWAYS existed, lol.
5. A NEW type of contrail, bigger jets, maybe some additives, but nothing to be alarmed about, lol.

What next? The truth?

Originally posted by Point of No Return
reply to post by Essan

 

No, it's not new, but lately it's getting a bit dramatic, with the whole sky full of contrail induced clouds.

It's just not right.

I agree. It's be even worse if they built that 3rd runway at Heathrow. Trouble is, to reduce contrail formation means flying at lower altitude which means using morfe fuel and producing more CO2 .... Can't see things improving any time soon. Unless people stop flying.

reply to post by Essan


Technically....a third runway for Heathrow will just mean more landings and departures...and more low-level pollution from exhaust combustion. (Noise pollution, too).

However, your point is made IF it also encourages a great deal more flights overland, on the Continent, with destination/departure point Heathrow. I'm not sure if the European Airspace can handle much more traffic, though.

I assume they'll be implementing some sort of GPS reguirement, similar to the US, soon. (GPS in US, to go with new satellite ATC, is due to be mandatory in 2020). Hopes to increase capacity.

reply to post by Stewie


1) Most "weird" skies seen in "chemtrail" videos and pictures are clouds.
2) What you see in the sky is not ever claimed to be chaff, chaff shows up on radar. What is identified by radar as chaff is not a cloud, and would not be mistaken as a cloud
3) Contrails are both normal and "old" having been stuided for over 70 years.
4) Contrails that expand and form a cirrus cloud layer have been part of the 70+ years of study.
5) More efficient and cleaner engines and fuels make contrails, but every plane, every engine, and every different place will make contrails different from each other. More planes make more contrails.

No one here would ever claim chaff and contrails were anywhere near the same thing.

Show something that science cannot explain just once. Until then, if science has an answer, science is the answer.

reply to post by stars15k

Certainly science can explain what I have seen, just not YOUR science.
If and when it is ever declassified, I will find the answer and you guys will be long gone arguing about something else you think you are explaining.

reply to post by weedwhacker


Well the argument for the 3rd runway is that it's neeed to cope with expected increases in air traffic. Although if that traffic instead went to Europe then aircraft would be overflying the UK so I suppose it would be even worse ....

(btw I've noticed many of the worst contrails I see are caused by holiday flights from Northern England & Scotand to Southern Europe)

I just want to see a reduction in air traffic and to see clear skies again. The shutdown in April was quite a revelation.

Maybe I should take a trip to Iceland (by boat, of course!) and drop a nuke down Hekla

Originally posted by Stewie
reply to post by stars15k

 

Certainly science can explain what I have seen, just not YOUR science.

Well my science can explain everything I have seen - and everything others have shown me.

Why should I therefore believe that what my science shows is a small rodent is actually a hyper intelligent pan galactic being?

Enlighten me

reply to post by Essan

Isn't there a saying or a book titled "Don't argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."
So, if I "win" the argument that this COULD be more than contrails, am I the idiot? If I were unable to convince you, would YOU be the idiot?

This is how these charades go. You pretend to bring the science, I pretend to bring the paranoid delusions, right?

You have undoubtedly seen the videos and probably the personal visual evidence that I have seen, so, what is the point? I cannot show you that which you haven't seen and you cannot satisfy me that your science explains it.

But like my employees, you DO show up for work.

reply to post by NWOWILLFALL


Thanks for the link! The people seemed honest. Maybe that was one of the first test runs of chemtrails.

Also I remember contrails as a little girl in the 80's and they always dissapated after a few minutes. So can someone please explain to me why contrails last for hours now?
I dislke how people pretend that things have always been the same when obviously it hasn't. It's like saying the whopper never shrank it's always been the same size.

[edit on 1-6-2010 by Teeky]

[edit on 1-6-2010 by Teeky]

Originally posted by Teeky
reply to post by NWOWILLFALL

 

Also I remember contrails as a little girl in the 80's and they always dissapated after a few minutes. So can someone please explain to me why contrails last for hours now? for the link! The people seemed honest. Maybe that was one of the first test runs of chemtrails.

Teeky.....

If you are truly interested in understanding why there is no such thing as a chemtrail, I refer you to the excellent work of our OzWeatherman.

Chemtrails? Need help
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Contrail Chemtrail Research Thread
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Chemtrail Hoax
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Are these proof of Chemtrails or Contrails?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Chemtrail believers, I challenge you to debunk contrail science
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Contrails: Understanding why they aren’t chemtrails
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Chemtrail Myth
www.abovetopsecret.com...

This is not a chemtrail! Atmospheric Phenomenon explained
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Why the Chemtrail Conspiracy is Implausible, and Meteorologically Inaccurate
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Astounding Effect Of Contrails On Climate
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

I use to scoff at the thought of chem trails until I saw two non commercial planes obviously chem trailing.I was at 5ooo ft above sea level and the planes were flying below air liners I could see the air liners. the commercial planes at 30 or 40 thousand ft had no contrails being it was summer and 32%c .But the other two were billowing out smoke flew for approx three or so minutes stopped billowing turned 90 degrees(which takes power)and started again.please note summer conditions give a 1c lapse rate. 1c drop in temperature per 1000 ft altitude gained thus making it impossible for a contrail to form.-40 c or so is needed. Don't know what they were spraying but they were spraying something.