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Begging Possibly to Be Made a Criminal Offence in Finland

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posted on May, 26 2010 @ 03:02 PM
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Begging Possibly to Be Made a Criminal Offence in Finland


www.uusisuomi.fi

Kerjäämisen kieltämisen puolesta ovat liputtaneet useat kansanedustajat, ja muun muassa Helsingissä on pelätty kerjäläistilanteen räjähtävän käsiin. Kerjäämisen on kerrottu muuttuneen aiempaa aggressiivisemmaksi, ja siihen on havaittu liittyvän entistä enemmän rikollisia ilmiöitä.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on May, 26 2010 @ 03:02 PM
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To translate the above,

"Several members of the parliament have been positive about forbidding begging, and, for instance, in Helsinki it has been feared that the begging situation gets out of control. Begging has been told to have become more aggressive, and it has shown increasingly to relate to criminal activity."

I haven't read anything regarding it on ATS, and thought that it might be of interest to some members. It's all over the news here in Finland. The reasoning for this possible criminalization appears to be that, as the media lets us understand, often beggars are victims of human trafficking.

As I was listening to the radio today, our prime minister, Matti Vanhanen, encouraged people not to give any alms to beggars, and felt that this would resolve the situation at hand within weeks.

Moreover, from what I've gathered from people I've been in touch with, they generally feel that this would be a positive thing.

I, however, do not fit into this category. Not even if there sometimes in fact did occur human trafficking or other offences against freedom. I sincerely do not see this as a solution to anything.

I am a relatively new and unexperinced poster to ATS. Thus, should someone feel this doesn't belong to the forum section it's been posted, kindly do move or remove it according to the forum's custom.


With kind greetings,
Kerhonen

www.uusisuomi.fi
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 07:58 AM
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www.uusisuomi.fi...

Above you'll find a poll conducted by Uusi Suomi, which has so far had 2294 votes and which I have translated below. The meters are as follows:


Should We Interfere with Begging?

No 1 - "No" (11%)

No 2 - "Only to be allowed at certain areas" (7%)

No 3 - "Yes - Total denial" (70%)

No 4 - "Those who grant alms should be charged with penalty" (12%)


- I must say that this is worrying me a tad. Unemployment is certainly on the rise and getting social security is a bureaucratic mess (at least where I live). :O

[edit on 9-6-2010 by Kerhonen]



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 08:01 AM
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While 90% of police murder lets worry about people with no food....



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 08:23 AM
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by criminalizing begging we might not achieve anything. criminals would just invent new ways to continue practising their habits. in finland there is already the offcial institution for begging, which is the social- and healthcare system. if you are citizen and truly in need of financial assistance, you can rely on that.

i don't really know whether criminalizing begging would be good or bad, but i guess there's nothing wrong in begging, as long as it is passive, not active pestering of people, demanding money.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 08:32 AM
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while i am not a big fan of beggars ("will work for food"....then get a job and you don't need a sign).

But to beg is to be free, if that is your choice. It appears that Finland doesn't put liberty as a priority.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 08:33 AM
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Originally posted by Geemor
by criminalizing begging we might not achieve anything. criminals would just invent new ways to continue practising their habits. in finland there is already the offcial institution for begging, which is the social- and healthcare system. if you are citizen and truly in need of financial assistance, you can rely on that.

i don't really know whether criminalizing begging would be good or bad, but i guess there's nothing wrong in begging, as long as it is passive, not active pestering of people, demanding money.



- Well, I've heard accounts of more aggressive incidents, but have never myself been a victim of such. The welfare system can be a real pain in the rear - this I've experienced several times. In fact, I should be dead by now, if it weren't for my parents who have assisted me at troublesome times (or had I practiced begging).

But really, the picture I'm getting here is like: more unemployed, poor people, more bureacratic obstacles for people to not get social care... and now...


Edit: Some typos.

[edit on 9-6-2010 by Kerhonen]

[edit on 9-6-2010 by Kerhonen]



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by Kerhonen
 


well yeah, the social- and healthcare can be troublesome, but it is because criminals and charlatans has abused it - therefore they have to require all the papers&checks to make sure one is legit to receive the social aid. junkies and other abusers who just "need" the money into their selfish addiction habits are the cause that the social care system is so strict nowadays.

and if you are really having trouble and social care system has cast you out, you can always ask help from various charity organizations and churches. begging is not really needed in most cases - but it still shouldn't be criminalized in my opinion.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
It appears that Finland doesn't put liberty as a priority.

no it doesn't, but thats pretty much same all over the world. the only freedom you have is the freedom to work - that aint freedom; it's called arbet macht frei - if you get my draft.

[edit on 9-6-2010 by Geemor]



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 12:58 PM
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It's kind of strange but I think you should have to get a beggar's license. You have to prove you have no other options to take care of yourself. For instance you couldn't get a beggars license if you get government welfare.

I know in Washington D.C. begging around the national mall earns people tens of thousands of dollars a year, that's not right when real starving people need the money.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by Geemor
reply to post by Kerhonen
 



[edit on 9-6-2010 by Geemor]


Yes, that may indeed be A reason for the complex paperwork required. My problem, however, for example with the Bureau of Workforce(?), is that they flat out lie and/or hide critical information.

An example from my personal life: I was going to postpone my military service due to an illness and had to obtain a doctor's certificate to prove I wasn't fit. I went to the Bureau of Workforce (again?) and asked, if that same certificate would qualify there as an excuse for me to have left a "course", to which I'd been sent by the BoW (getting a doctor's apointment at the time took about a 1-2 month's of queing). The answer was undoubtedly: Yes.

Well, I gave them the certificate, and after a few weeks I got an answer that I had been unable to prove my disability to attend this course. And as a result, 3 months of no money. When I returned to their office, their excuse was that there has to be a separate certificate, specifically regarding my condition in relation the that course.


Thedarklingthrush,

well, problem is, I do not, under any circumstances, trust my government. They could label anyone they want to be unfit for begging.

-

Yes, some charity organizations are also a possibility, but I, for one, am fairly unaware of these. I think by the time I'd drawn all of my straws with the government (and had no luck finding a job), I'd probably just kill myself.

There certainly might be just lazy individuals, or even organized crime, as our government and media tells us, but fact of the matter is, there aren't jobs for everyone. And you'd have to be an attourney to have a guaranteed welfare income.

[edit on 9-6-2010 by Kerhonen]

[edit on 9-6-2010 by Kerhonen]



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