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Crop Circles...with some actual evidence

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posted on May, 26 2010 @ 02:32 PM
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Stunted, malformed seeds and germination effects


BLT Research

There are four basic changes to the seeds and germination capability in crop circle plants documented so far. These radically different reproductive effects depend upon the species of crop involved, the growth phase of the plants at the time the crop circle occurs, and the composition and intensity level of the energy system involved (which appears to differ slightly within each event as well as from event to event):



(a) If the crop circle occurs prior to anthesis (the flowering of the plant) and the development of the seed, the somatic (non-reproductive) tissue of the plant will continue to develop normally -- but seed development ceases or is impaired. Normally-formed glumes have been found which are totally devoid of seeds.




(b) When crop circles occur at a slightly later growth stage, in young crop where the seed is still forming, the developing embryo fails to grow normally. These seeds will be visually stunted (smaller), will weigh less than their controls, and will exhibit reduced or repressed germination. Here, the reproductive capacity of the plant has been compromised.


When crop circles occur in more mature plants, where the embryo is fully formed or nearly so, the seeds will again be visually stunted and will weigh less than normal, but the effects on reproduction vary. One effect observed has been an alteration in normal growth-habit of the developing seedlings: in species which have a normal variability of growth at particular stages, this variability has been lost -- with the result being that all of the germinating seeds exhibit synchronized growth.




(d) Finally, when crop circles occur in mature plants with fully formed seeds, these seeds often exhibit a statistically significant massive increase in growth rate and vigor, with growth-rate up to five times the rate of the control seeds. Further, these seedlings can tolerate extreme stress (lack of water and/or light) for considerable periods of time without apparent harm.


[edit on 26-5-2010 by Software_Pyrate]

[edit on 26-5-2010 by Software_Pyrate]




posted on May, 26 2010 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by Software_Pyrate
 


Haha sorry, but I immediately thought of it when reading your thread as I believe it goes hand in hand. Definitely add more information regarding ghost circles to your first post if possible, the more evidence in one area (rather than thread throughout separate threads) the better.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by Software_Pyrate
reply to post by Tharsis
 





The 'elongated nodes' are the plants reaction to reaching up for the sun after damage. Life goes on, and plant hormones (yes, auxins) change the growth of the plants to accommodate.


But that does not account for the elongation happening in a period of 1 night...when normal elongation of that length takes weeks....Yes weeks.

Oh, so there is proof that this happened in 1 night? Is there a video or something? Or are they going on farmer hearsay as their 'proof'? I would really like to know what you call proof.





I've seen all this a thousand times, I have plants that I've intentionally damaged the herd on and the growth after is certainly not typical--but it isn't extraterrestrial either.


Please post some of you sources for rapid stem elongation as I have done. And these scientists that you are...


I'm sick of scientists basing their suppositions on already existing unproven 'out there' theories

Are the very ones that prove anything at all....so if not them...then who actually proves anything?

People who use empirical data actually PROVE things. Way to cut off my quote, sorry, but a physicist with some extraterrestrial energy theory isn't going to convince me of ANY oddity in the plant biology world. My apologies.


Here is a bit taken from Source about your source Levengood:




Unfortunately, there are serious objections to Levengood’s approach. First of all, while he uses various control plants for his experiments, nowhere in the papers I reviewed [1,2,3,4] is there any mention of the work being conducted in double-blind manner so as to minimize the effects of experimenter bias. (As one “cereologist,” the Earl of Haddington, said of another laboratory that claimed to detect different “energy levels” between crop-circle and non-crop-circle areas [a concept that appears to have begun with dowsers], “When they are not told which sample came from a Crop Circle and which from a heap of grain in my back yard they are either unable or unwilling to give a result.”[5])


Go on and read the article.

I cannot provide disputing proof to your 1 night stem elongation theory, because I cannot find empirical proof that it happened in one night.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 02:42 PM
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The biggest problem with crop circles is this...

The more intricate and complicated designs have been PROVEN to be hoaxes, or human creations, therefor, THEY are the ones used as examples when showing you 'kooks' that ALL crop circles are fake.

I believe that many are real, but we'll never know the truth.

It's a vicious cycle.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 02:46 PM
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My thing is...I WANT to believe...

I want to think that a benevolent force out there is either trying warn us or inform us or communicate with us. I truly like the idea and in a perfect world, there would be undeniable evidence for this...

The problem is...people and their so-called 'proof' won't let me believe. I have to accept givens that I don't want and allow those givens to influence the proof given to me.

I just can't do that...



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 02:48 PM
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reply to post by Tharsis
 

Yes and here is more ...but he's not "mine"

Dr. Levengood


At the centre of scientific research on plants from crop circles is biophysicist W.C. Levengood of the Pinelandia Biophysical lab in Michigan. Here we summarise some of his findings :


Consistent cell pit changes
In July 1992 a night watch, at Woodborough Hill, England was organised in an attempt to contact the intelligence behind the crop circle formations. UFO activity was witnessed by the participants, and a crop circle was found nearby.

Dr Levengood examined wheat samples collected from inside and outside the Woodborough Hill formation. Based on 30 samples, he found a 21 per cent average and consistent increase in cell pit diameters compared to normal control cells. ( Cell pits are small holes in plant cells that allow fluid to flow up and down plant stalks. )

Over the past two years, Dr Levengood has measured a consistent 23 per cent mean average increase in cell pit diameters. He has also discovered a gradual gradation increasing in cell pit size from the edge of the plant leaf to the center and from the outer edge of formations to the centers. If a plant is stepped on, the physical pressure of impact will force fluid in the stem to expand rapidly. Consequently, cell pits will enlarge. But in that situation the expansion is randomly distributed. So far, the only way Levengood has been able to reproduce a consistent cell pit change in control plants was to place them in a microwave oven.


Rapid heating
After 30 seconds of microwave exposure, the cell pits were enlarged 14 per cent by the expanding heated water in the plant cells. If heated longer than 30 seconds, the plant cells shriveled from dehydration, which has not been seen in formation plant samples. Given the dehydration factor, Dr Levengood concludes that whatever energy creates the formations, "the heating must occur at a rapid rate, not more than 30 seconds."

Dr Levengood also found evidence of rapid heating in corn seeds from a Medina, New York, circle in October 1991. Those seeds were sent to a scientist who used a scanning electron microscope. She said: "I found unusual crystals, like seeds heated by microwave."


Changes in seed growth
Some crop formations have occurred as early as April. In early-growing spring plants, Dr Levengood finds a complete lack of seed development, "no embryogenesis at all". Normally, one would find developing seeds in spring plants. In later, more mature plants from July on, he finds whole and healthy seeds that germinate at a growth rate 87 per cent faster than control plants. Agriculture seed experts say if they can produce a 5 per cent increase in growth rate, they are doing well. "Eighty-seven per cent is astonishing," says Levengood.

But not just...
Bruce Rideout, a psychologist with a biology degree..

Teaches at Ursinus College in Collegeville, Pennsylvania, studied plants from Linfield and Limerick, Pennsylvania, formations northwest of Philadelphia in May 1992. Dr Rideout discovered node splitting or cracking in affected plants and a peculiar and angled reorientation of the growth nodes - the places on plants where leaves and stems branch. Dr Levengood has observed those same changes in reproductive and germination tissue from England crops.

Sherry Yarkosky, a chemist trained in plant physiology
works for Alvey Labs in Belleville, Illinois, said the affected plants in Troy showed sodium levels twice as high as unaffected plants and a 5 per cent decrease in nitrogen content.

source



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by Tharsis
 


Oh, so there is proof that this happened in 1 night? Is there a video or something? Or are they going on farmer hearsay as their 'proof'? I would really like to know what you call proof.


You have got to be kidding me...So a farmer does not know when there is a 1000 foot circle in his field between one day and the next. And on top of it, thats hearsay...



What is it you are hear for anyway....

Yes of course there will be some variance in ALL experiments, but all we can do is try to eliminate the variables until there are few as possible.

I have presented FActs of crop circles and their physical findings....

Present something other than variances in the very studies I am trying to post.

You have presented...umm well..you have presented that farmers words are hearsay I guess.

O ya and....it was 3 nights dang it

[edit on 26-5-2010 by Software_Pyrate]



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by SquirrelNutz

The biggest problem with crop circles is this...

The more intricate and complicated designs have been PROVEN to be hoaxes, or human creations, therefor, THEY are the ones used as examples when showing you 'kooks' that ALL crop circles are fake.

I believe that many are real, but we'll never know the truth.

It's a vicious cycle.



Well...thats what we are trying to do here..examine the evidence at hand. While other just evade the evidence at hand, I try to look at everything at face value and make an observation based on that. But being informed is half of it. Merely throwing out 10 Years of accumulated LAB research ....
is funny at best, but people still do it.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 03:14 PM
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If it were not the lazer-printer quality of some of these circles that I base an opinion alone, it is the angled folding and weaving patterns that emerge within some circles. Suffice to say, no stopping of a board could ever create said weave.

The fact remains, you present far more worthy information then some sod looking to just debunk something they are unwilling to comprehend.

There's more to some of these circles then just man with boards. As to what? No clue.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 03:15 PM
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So you are saying you cannot prove this happened in 1 night? (or three as you are now saying?)

Not all evidence is proof.

I'm sorry you feel as though I'm attacking your thread. Contrary to what you think, I am adding something to this thread--a skeptical eye. You will encounter this quite often at ATS.

All I'm saying is that I want PROOF. Everything about these elongated nodes is hinging on the fact that it happened in 1 night (or 3?). If this is the case, I would like empirical data to back that up.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 03:24 PM
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reply to post by Tharsis
 


No sweat...I don't feel any attack whatssoever...


But, you are wrong when you say "everything is hinging on"....

As the Post states...not only node elongation; growth irregularities, seed anomalies, expulsion cavities, and much more that I did not post but can be found here as wellATS
was just trying to stick to the biological aspects of this discussion.

Not to mention the rare isotopes in the soil, the magnetically charged iron found in the soil....So much evidence...thats why I just wanted to stick to one aspect of it.



[edit on 26-5-2010 by Software_Pyrate]



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by YouAreDreaming
If it were not the lazer-printer quality of some of these circles that I base an opinion alone, it is the angled folding and weaving patterns that emerge within some circles. Suffice to say, no stopping of a board could ever create said weave.

The fact remains, you present far more worthy information then some sod looking to just debunk something they are unwilling to comprehend.

There's more to some of these circles then just man with boards. As to what? No clue.


ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

I'm not trying to force feed some theory....just presenting facts that...in my book means...

as you said"There's more to some of these circles then just man with boards."

Could not have said it better myself.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 03:44 PM
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An interesting National Geographic program examined the claims of trace evidence for crop circles being other than man made. They found the evidence lacking. There has been nothing found associated with crop circles which is inconsistent with human creation.

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...


Regarding farmers' testimony about crop circle origins, there is a very nice cottage industry involving crop circle tourists. Those who believe crop circles are human made are unlikely to pay for the privilege of walking around a barley field. Why would a farmer say, "Yup, I saw those fellows making the circle last night, nice work they do."?
www.cropcircles.org...



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 04:04 PM
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The elongation of "nodes" is from the plant trying to right itself to an upward position!

Just because they get stomped over doesn't mean their dead! And I believe that continued growth can explain much of the discrepancy's found
among the crops inside the circle...

Also, remember when the circles first began to get media attention?
They were just plain Jane circles...Now they're elaborate as hell!
Did the aliens get better at making circles since then with more practice?



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 




They found the evidence lacking. There has been nothing found associated with crop circles which is inconsistent with human creation.


by they u mean...National Geographic?

Hmmm....Really

The Origin of the Radionuclides



Broadly speaking, there are two ways the radionuclides could have got into the ground. One way is contamination, which would consist of pouring or spraying a solution or dust containing the radionuclides onto the ground. We think contamination unlikely for the same reasons a hoax is unlikely: the difficulty of making the radionuclides prior to placing them in the area, and the almost equal difficulty of applying the contaminated material over a large but sharply delimited area. The other way is activation. Activation is the process of bombarding atomic nuclei with energetic subatomic particles. The nuclei capture the particles and are thus transformed into different nuclei. If the number of neutrons in the nuclei change, they become different isotopes of the same element. If the number of protons change, they become different elements altogether. For example, it is theoretically possible to change lead into gold by activating it with the right mixture of particles. The only obstacle, aside from its difficulty, is the fact that it would cost more than an ounce of gold to produce an ounce of gold.

read for your self....

I have several more in depth articles if you like...

I know you well...from my past profile. And do in fact respect your skepticism. However...I firmly stand against that statement.

[edit on 26-5-2010 by Software_Pyrate]



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 04:08 PM
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However...the biological aspects of these phenomenon is what picks my brain.




posted on May, 26 2010 @ 04:09 PM
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Good thread OP, thank you for the information.

However for me, when comparing all the evidence, this still falls into "Human Hoax" work.

There are plenty of ways an alien civilization would be doing this work that would no way be confused with Human works, say alter the genes of the plants in the pattern to display a different color instead of bending the plants or transplant whole sections of field from one location to another. If you can travel through space or cross dimensions this would be pretty easy.

So if this is Alien work, they certainly don't care about making sure they get full credit for the message.

[edit on 26-5-2010 by Helmkat]



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 04:09 PM
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A couple of questions if anyone knows the answers:

1. On the magnetic picture, what depth does this go to? Is it relevant? Also what sort of time scale after the original crop circle is the image and are the any more at further intervals? i.e. what is the rate of diminishment of the magnetic reading and does it return in line with the 'full' re-emergence of the crop?

2. When discussing the isotopes found: has the rate of dissipation of these (again forgive my ignorance if they do not diminsih but cannot see a reason why not) been examined to see if they are in line with control samples or portray different characteristics.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 04:09 PM
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This one occured a few days ago in Wiltshire, one of the first of this year's season I believe. Very nice CC.

www.cropcircleconnector.com...



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by Niccawhois
The elongation of "nodes" is from the plant trying to right itself to an upward position!

Just because they get stomped over doesn't mean their dead! And I believe that continued growth can explain much of the discrepancy's found
among the crops inside the circle...

Also, remember when the circles first began to get media attention?
They were just plain Jane circles...Now they're elaborate as hell!
Did the aliens get better at making circles since then with more practice?



Yes I have addressed that very issue...must not have read entire post.

And I have never said once that....
ET did it!!!!!!

Where's the Pegasus Consortium when u need'em

[edit on 26-5-2010 by Software_Pyrate]



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