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North Korea vs South Korea - a korean point of view

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posted on May, 26 2010 @ 08:20 AM
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I found this blog called ASKAKOREAN, with some very interesting insights from a korean perspective of things. Although it is not clear to me if the blog is written by a North Korean or a South Korean, it still helps painting a better picture of what probably happened, what is going and what could happen in the future.

You will notice most of what is written below is between quotation marks. That´s because the purpose here is not to show you what I think, but the korean perspective of things(at least that particular korean blogger´s perspective). I tried to condense it as much as possible to ease the reading.

ROKS Cheonan -- What You Need to Know

"Here are the basic facts. On March 26 of this year, ROKS Cheonan -- named after the city in Korea -- split in half and sank nearly instantly. Forty-six sailors died or went missing. After an international investigation, it has been more or less confirmed that Cheonan was attacked by a torpedo fired from a North Korean submarine. North Korea is vigorously denying the accusations, but at this point there appears to be no other possible culprit. The critical piece of evidence was a remainder of a propeller for a torpedo, which carried Korean lettering. South Korea, along with the United States, is right now considering ways to respond to this attack, likely resulting in harsher sanctions."

-Can we believe the results of the investigation? Was it crooked?

"the United States, Australia, Britain and Sweden were part of the investigation. I'm having trouble trying to imagine the Swedes as war mongers."

NK and a history of provocations

"The attack on the Cheonan is the largest-scale attack by North Korea since the late 1980s. Up to late 1980s, North Korea was quite bold in its attempts for terrorism/military action.

For example, in 1968 thirty-one North Korean commandos infiltrated Seoul and unsuccessfully attacked the presidential residence, killing many in the process.

In 1974, a North Korean assassin fired at the South Korean president during a public address, but only managed to kill the First Lady.

In 1983, North Korean spies bombed the South Korean president and his entourage in Myanmar, killing 21 including the Vice Prime Minister.

In 1987 North Korean spies left a time bomb on a South Korean airliner which later detonated over the Indian Ocean, killing all 115 aboard.

But from the 1990s and beyond, North Korea was relatively quiet.

While there were intermittent episodes of significant saber-rattling -- culminating in North Korea's threat of developing nuclear weapon a few years ago -- a deliberate military strike like this one simply did not happen in the last 20 years or so. The closest analogue would be the two naval skirmishes in 1999 and 2002, in which North and South Korean exchanged fire in the sea just south of the Northern Limit Line, which divides the North and the South.

But the attack on the Cheonan is significantly different from those skirmishes. It is true that those naval skirmishes resulted in some casualties and a loss of a ship -- in 2002, South Korea lost six sailors and a gunboat.

In contrast, many more died on Cheonan, a more significant ship than a gunboat.

More importantly, this was a surprise attack with no forewarning, instead of an outright provocation leading to a battle."


Report on all NK´s provocations since the 1950s


A look inside North Korea

"North Korea internally is going through a significant change. The long-time despot Kim Jong-Il is in ill health, and a three-generation succession is a hard sell even in North Korea. Also, what little we know about the announced heir, Kim Jong-Un, does not bode well. The younger Kim is only 27 years old and is apparently fond of shooting things, having majored artillery in Kim Il-Sung University.

Recently, North Korea instituted a currency reform which ended in a disaster, causing runaway inflation and severe disruption of food supply. In a rare gesture, North Korean regime even apologized to its people for the abysmal failure of the currency reform. It is fair to think that the internal instability is connected to this attack.

Often, North Korea uses an external threat (that is self-generated unbeknownst to its people) as an excuse to crack down on its people, and this attack could be a part of such a plan.



[edit on 26-5-2010 by henriquefd]




posted on May, 26 2010 @ 08:20 AM
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ROKS Cheonan -- What You Need to Think About

- Will North Korea attempt this type of attack again?

"For better or for worse, North Korea's actions in the last 20 years or so were predictable. It is a mistake to think that Kim Jong-Il is a madman who will fire nuclear missile for #s and giggles. He is a calculating politician who is interested in exactly one thing and one thing only: the survival of the regime, and by extension, continued enjoyment of his power.

Also, if there should be a full-scale war between the two Koreas, there is no doubt as to the eventual outcome -- South Korea will emerge victorious. In fact. Kim Jong-Il knows that the beginning of a full-scale war is equivalent to his annihilation within minutes. Then the fact that North Korea would engage in this type of attack, raising the possibility of a full-scale war, is counter-intuitive. Even if North Korea needed a rise in tension for internal reasons, North Korea has been able to do so without necessarily causing casualty -- for example, by testing a nuclear weapon.

And this is the most worrisome aspect of this attack -- that the North Korean regime is no longer predictable. North Korean regime has talked big, but rarely followed through in an actual attack like this one. (For example, in 1994 North Korea famously announced that it will turn Seoul into a "sea of flames". No real action followed.) But now, things have changed, and no one knows how the situation will progress. "

- Will South Korea's response be enough to deter this type of attack from happening again?

"Withdrawal of the aid and the economic exchange program is unlikely to mean anything to the North Korean regime. Recall that Kim Jong-Il regime did not even flinch while millions died of starvation in North Korea in the early 1990s. While it does hurt North Korea's pocketbook, Kim Jong-Il's personal pocketbook will not be significantly affected.

It is not clear as of yet if South Korea's new resolution to fully retaliate whenever this type of attack happens again can deter such an attack. North Korea announced that it will attack any propaganda broadcast speakers set up in the South. South Korea responded that if they are attacked, it will retaliate accordingly. But it remains to be seen how much tolerance South Korean administration for the tension and the increased chance of a full-scale war that will inevitably follow such a retaliation."

- Is there anything else South Korea can do to deter this type of attack from happening again?

If the North Korean regime only cares about its survival, the only possible response by which South Korea can gain leverage is to threaten the survival of the regime. [To this end, Mr. Joo Seong-Ha recommended improved intelligence on where Kim Jong-Il is at all times, and at least three stealth bombers that can be used to immediately kill Kim Jong-Il.

But no matter how broad (e.g. full-scale war) or narrow (e.g. targeted assassination of Kim Jong-Il) the response is, South Korea must back the response with the gumption that a full-scale war might actually occur. For now, South Korea is responding by creating as much disruption without a military response, i.e. propaganda broadcasting. As discussed earlier, North Korea is reacting strongly even to this.

While the second Korean War will almost certainly end in the South's victory, the central dilemma for South Korea has been the same for the last 40 years -- Seoul, the nation's capital with the population of 10 million people in its metropolitan area, is only 30 miles away from the DMZ. Along the DMZ, North Korea has a number of long-range artillery and missiles aimed at Seoul. Should North Korea decide to fire them, there is no way for South Korea to completely intercept them."

- Is there anything anyone else can do to deter this type of attack again?

"Much of it hinges upon China, which at this point is the only guarantor of safety for North Korea. However, China has been lukewarm about America's request to punish North Korea; A spokesman for the Foreign Ministry, Ma Zhaoxu, was noncommittal, saying of the Korea crisis, “We hope all the relevant parties will exercise restraint and remain cool-headed.”"

ASKAKOREAN

[edit on 26-5-2010 by henriquefd]



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 09:40 AM
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When a schoolyard bully attacks his victims, he will not hesitate to brag about his hit. The purpose is to show his superiority, his ability and his domination of others, as well as to instill fear to others.

Nutcase Kim is just another schoolyard bully. But why did he not claim or boast of his exploit over the sinking of the ship?

He would have won accolades from his generals and countrymen, as well as instill fear into S.Korea. Furthermore, that ship was clearly in disputed waters, and he could easily got away with it. So why the denial?

This is not the trademark of a schoolyard bully the nutcase is.

A presumed torpedo part with N. Korean markings was found on the sea-floor. I will not doubt the international findings on the relevance of that torpedo part found on the sea bed in a vicinity of numerous naval excercises as being the one that sank the ship.

But everyone must ask the relevance on such flimsy evidence as 'conclusive' and 'overwhelming'. so much so everyone who has a stake there are massing troops and equipment there.

Suppose one found a note with your social security number near a murder victim, can anyone use such evidence as conclusive and overwhelming evidence that you carried out the murder?

Americans believe a person is innocent till proven guilty, given a fair trial, with jury in attendence. Was N.Korea summoned to present its evidence?

Who were the jury, when even the incompetent fool that sits on the highest chair in the UN -Ban Ki Moon, a known NWO puppet, is already prejudiced enough to call such evidence avaliable as conclusive and overwhelming?

I am not a Korean, nor have any love for the Nutcase Kim, and would gladly put a bullet through his head if i can ever get close to this beast if it would mean saving millions of innocent lives whom suffered much under his misrule, but this latest escalation of hostility smells disgustingly, and if not carefully handled, millions will lay dead. over flimsy evidence that had NEVER been proven beyond reasonable doubt in any justice system.

www.radioaustralia.net.au...



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 09:54 AM
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Sky News (UK) have switched to reporting the story line that North Korea is on the brink of a catastrophic famine.

Linky

I'm trying to work out the motive...

Is it to help avoid sanctions and a real famine?
or
justification to go in and "help" the North Korean's anyway?

I never like these situation since I do not completly trust the reporting..



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by thoughtsfull
Sky News (UK) have switched to reporting the story line that North Korea is on the brink of a catastrophic famine.

Linky

I'm trying to work out the motive...

Is it to help avoid sanctions and a real famine?
or
justification to go in and "help" the North Korean's anyway?

I never like these situation since I do not completly trust the reporting..


It probably is true. To quote the ASKAKOREA again:

"Recently, North Korea instituted a currency reform which ended in a disaster, causing runaway inflation and severe disruption of food supply. In a rare gesture, North Korean regime even apologized to its people for the abysmal failure of the currency reform. It is fair to think that the internal instability is connected to this attack. Often, North Korea uses an external threat (that is self-generated unbeknownst to its people) as an excuse to crack down on its people, and this attack could be a part of such a plan."


Expanding on that, I believe in the ASKAKOREAN theory that Kim Jon il is more interested in the continuation of his regime. I don't think he is a mad man. We call people mad when we don't understand how they think.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by henriquefd
 


I wouldn't call him mad... but it would be good understand the true depth of the problem.. and in that understanding an appropriate response..

Is he desperate enough to keep power while a famine is stalking his lands that he would push the people to an external war? I think so.. the famine could be the reason for all this..

On the flip side if the outside world knows that famine is the issue and are using it to get the regeme change they want then I am unsure how I stand on the issue...

But thanks for the link



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 



There are different types of bullies. USA is the biggest bully of all. Based on past assassination activities, North Korea may and will attempt another atrocities upon SK. A matter of time.

But it's puzzling why North Korea denied the recent sinking of SK navy ship this time. Maybe there's a real conspiracy crime by US (and/or Allies).



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by wisdomnotemotion
 


I agree we can't know for sure if NK sunk that ship ot not. But on the hypothesis that NK sunk the ship, I would actually be surprised if NK acknowledged it did it. This is not something they could just say "I did it" and get away with.

NK is not like those terrorist groups that like taking credit for terrorist attacks. They have an agenda, I believe, which is focused on the maintenance of the presente regime. Assuming that attack wouldn't help the regime, but creating more tensions in the region could.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 11:40 AM
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reply to post by wisdomnotemotion
 


The American people are not the bullies. There are no better people than big hearted americans, which many of the freedom loving common people are.

It's not even the puppets that are bullies, after all, puppets are only mannequins on strings, whom had not kept true to their election promises, and deserves to be impeached if not booted out in the next election..

It's the shadow rulers who had been running America, manipulating and orchestrating events for devious purposes over decades, whom are the real bullies, that many are suddenly finding out.

However, whoever or whatever is responsible for the sinking of the SKorean ship, it behooves an international open court of justice to determine the evidences presented, from both sides and not just one side, come to a conclusion for action. 46 innocent people had died.

There must be justice served, and true justice, not some kangeroo court which will only endanger million more of innocent lives.

We are talking about nuclear and heavy weapon states here that may draw in even bigger nuclear powers in this conflict.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by wisdomnotemotion
 


I knew it was just a matter of time before you people cried false flag and pointed your finger at the United States. It couldn't possibly have had anything to do with that megalomaniacal despot who's taken potshots at South Korea for decades and has openly declared on at least four separate occasions in the last two years that he would blow Seoul off the map, would it? Sigh... carry on, it's all the fault of the west somehow


As far as the notion that the prop discovered is inconclusive, you should know that it's not that hard to pinpoint not only what type of torpedo it was from a fragment, but what country uses it and what type of sub it was launched from; North korea has a very specific type of diesel-powered attacked Sub it uses. I say specific because they're Chinese hand-me-downs that haven't even been in service anywhere else since the 1970s.

And if you guys will pay a little closer attention to the story, you'd realize that S. Korea is taking their evidence to the U.N. Security Council - there, if they are so inclined, N. Korea can present its own... of course, all they've done is threaten to blow Seoul off the map if they even talk to the U.N. so we'll see if they even show up in their own defense.

Of course, it's all moot right? The U.S. did it to some nefarious end, obviously at the behest of the NWO so why even bother with formalities...



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 12:01 PM
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reply to post by Legion2112
 


I can't say I understand how an US citizen must feel when people blame their country for this or that. I do know that as a brazilian, I don't like it when people say wrong things about my country, so you have my sympathies in that.

On the other hand, you do understand that the US is a major player in global events and that the Iraq war helps raising suspicions about another war somewhere else, right? Today, many in the world speculate about US invading Iran and/or North Korea.

Nobody knows what happened for sure, so all we have are theories, hypothesis. I wouldn't discredit the possibility of a false flag attack. Heck, to those who think China wants war with the US, you could create the hypothesis that China sunk SK´s ship and made it look like it was NK. But if that was the case, wouldn't the chinese have offered military help to NK as soon as the US announced his aid to SK?

In my opinion, though, it does seem like the attack came from NK.

First, because I don't believe that China would do it to engage in a war with the US.

I do see a possibility of the attack being made by US, if the intentions was to create enough tensions so NK would lose it and attack the South. Maybe a war it´s all that is needed to finally remove Kim Jon Il and his family from power and reunite the Koreas.

Reuniting the Koreas would mean that US would have its troops closer to China, which would lose NK as a buffer zone. Then US would have its troops in Japan, Taiwan & SK/NK.

Placing his troops in strategic locations all over the globe is something the US has been doing for years. Heck, I am still not sure I like to see US troops in Colombia.

Would the US go so far as to fake that attack to blame NK and maybe get the excuse it needs to occupy more strategic territory? I dont know.

Would SK sink its own ship for the same purpose and maybe to finally remove Kim Jon Il from power and reunite the Koreas under SK´s government? I dont know.

To my mind, it is still more likely that it was done by NK. The fact that Sweden was part of the investigation really weights in favor of the investigation being truthful, IMHO. Sweden is a very peaceful country. I don't see them intentionally being part of a lie that would escalate tensions and increase the chance of another war in the world.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by Legion2112
 


I feel your pain dude.
If it's not the US it's the UK.
Maybe we should take to wearing "it wasn't me!" T-shirts.

That's why i'm blaming the Israelies.

Playing everyone off against each-other.
The US tied up with a war in Korea, would be a great opportunity for Israel to strike Iran.
Only joking.(Or am i?).



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 12:14 PM
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Another possible reason NK is not taking credit for the sinking is that it could hve been unintentional. When deployed, subs are somewhat autonomous in their activities working under orders that are given or updated during periodic communications. It's possible that something went wrong. A misunderstood order. A firecontrol malfunction. A drill that inadvertently resulted in a live launch. A scenario like this would put NK in a jam. Do they admit to a screw-up by their Navy and take responsibility thereby embarassing themselves on the world stage (the very LAST think Kim wants) or do they just take the 'wasn't me' tact and avoid incrimination?



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 12:23 PM
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reply to post by Legion2112
 


We cannot say for sure that the US did it but looking back into history, it is absolutely possible. The Vietnam War was started based on a lie, a false attack. Nobody is saying America itself is bad, but the government sure is. It has used lies to start wars and carry out operations against governments numerous times. This is not to say that other governments have not done the same thing.

The reason why I question whether or not North Korea really did it, is the amount of corrosion and the "number 1" written with magic marker. That seems really fishy to me. It's written in Korean, so why automatically assume it has to be North Korea?

In addition to that, what would be the point for Kim Jong Il to do this? He is nuts, but not stupid. He has to know doing something like that could get him killed. And probably his sons too. Generally terrorists admit their actions, for the purpose is to generate fear for political ends. We do not see that happening here.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 12:25 PM
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reply to post by henriquefd
 


Sweden being part of the investigation is certainly interesting. I would like to know to what extent it participated. Was it one person, to make it look like an impartial jury?



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by Legion2112
reply to post by wisdomnotemotion
 


As far as the notion that the prop discovered is inconclusive, you should know that it's not that hard to pinpoint not only what type of torpedo it was from a fragment, but what country uses it and what type of sub it was launched from;


That's funny because the torpedo they have found is in fact an american torpedo ...

upload.wikimedia.org...

I think the boat blew on a mine.

[edit on 26-5-2010 by ickylevel]



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 12:59 PM
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reply to post by ickylevel
 


Are you sure? There was an article couple of days ago that said it was German.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 06:29 PM
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reply to post by henriquefd
 


Oh, don't misunderstand; I trust my government about as far as I can throw it. Between the Gulf Of Tonkin incident and Iraq alone I can understand why people would raise a few eyebrows when the words United States are thrown in a sentence with this sinking or that blowing up... even if those words are at the end of the sentence in really small print.

That not withstanding, sometimes a spade is just a friggin' spade. Just seems like here lately everything under the sun is the fault of the U.S. in some form or fashion and it gets tiresome. Especially when you consider the following;

1) Either the U.S. Government is inept and worthless or it's a diabolical genius: it's one or the others boys and girls, so pick one. Our government has managed to seal the ecological doom of the entire Gulf Coast area with it's ineptitude and lack of the simplest logistics capability, yet we're to believe they managed to sneak a 30+ year old Torpedo model from China into Korean waters undetected, sink a S. Korean cruiser with it, sneak out of the South China Sea unmolested and laugh all the way back to port? Really?

2) For once, the U.S. stands absolutely nothing to gain by increased tensions somewhere else in the world: A full scale war between North and South Korea? Why? For a patch of dirt north of the 38th parallel, just south of China's largest Army in the world, that can't grow anything nor has any oil? What's the point? Combine that with how rediculously thin our military is stretched across the globe, a budget deficit that would give Ronald Reagan a heart attack, the oil spill and 17 states trying to give Obama's entire administration the middle finger by passing immigration laws that he hates and I can't see the logic.

3) North Korea has threatened to blow South Korea, the United States and Japan off the map about four times a year since 1951 - Christ, you can almost tell the change in seasons by the rhetoric coming out of Pyongyang. They've engaged in hostilities against the South repeatedly, and everyone acts all shocked and shaken when wreckage from one of their ancient torpedoes fired from one of their ancient submarines is found in amidst the wreckage of a S. Korean vessel? Their leader, who's ego has long since past the point of logic or reason, is on his last legs... and as much as I used to think Kim Jong-Il to be all bark and no bite, it would seem he wants to go out with a bang...

The only other thing I would add is that if the United States were the only country inspecting the wreckage and purported evidence, I might actually agree with those suggesting something fishy is going on... but if you honestly think that we can convince three other nations who have no stake in this one way or the other to manufacture proof of a N. Korean attack... honestly, I don't think Kim Jong-Il is the only one who's gone beyond logic and reason.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 06:42 PM
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reply to post by ickylevel
 


What's funny is the prop assembly on the section they found bares no resemblance to the pic you posted... even the motor casing is ancient by comparison...

www.dailymail.co.uk...

About halfway down the page...

In addition, the story notes that the investigators found a serial number on a separate fragment that matched that of a N. Korean torpedo confiscated by S. Korea two years ago, and that S. Korean intelligence verified that three N. Korean diesel subs and a "mothership" (probably a Destroyer), left a N. Korean naval base 2-3 days before the attack and returned to that very same base 2-3 days after the attack...





[edit on 26-5-2010 by Legion2112]



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 07:21 PM
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Originally posted by henriquefd
Although it is not clear to me if the blog is written by a North Korean or a South Korean, it still helps painting a better picture of what probably happened, what is going and what could happen in the future.

I would bet $1000 that it's written by a South Korean - North Koreans do not have any real access to the outside world. Not only would they have little to no idea about what's really going on beyond their borders, they would not be able to get that information out over the Internet, even if they did.



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