another reason why i think religious people are being fooled

reply to post by ashanu90


it's all terribly misunderstood.
sometimes enki fits the bad guy role, sometimes enlil does. it goes back and forth. some texts say enlil created us, some say enki created us.

some say god (enki) was mad at enlil.
some say god (enlil) was mad at enki.

in other words, enki's in the role of god and he's mad at enlil. then enlil's in the role of god and he's mad at enki. etc. and yet the bible calls them both jehovah or elohim. the first time they are separated, from what i can tell, is in the new testament. enki becomes yeshua. pretty sure that's enki.

enlil is the god of the air, sky, breath, spirit.
enki is the god of the earth and water.

the gods clone us from themselves, as immortal slaves.

enki decides to give us procreative abilities but to do so, he has to mix clone dna with animal dna.

the result is not good. immortal, procreating, half animal, slaves = bad news for the rest of the universe.

that's where enlil gets angry and we lose favor with him. the council decides our dna needs to be modified again *tree of life* and we lose our immortal, self regenerating bodies. now the whole problem is shoved into enki's lap, since our current situation was created by him when he gave us the ability to procreate, etc.

enki ends up having to defend us repeatedly from enlil's anger, as a result you see enki trying to save the few surviving humans from the flood (in epic of gilgamesh) and later, trying to offer us immortality again, in the new testament.

theoretically, anyway.

reply to post by undo


wow you said a mouthful
so tell me how do you go about your research? Also you seem to enjoy talking about this alot which im glad because i find this fascinating.

also could ygdrsal the world tree be related to the tree of knowledge and the tree of life?

i also noticed how hebrew have adam and eve and norse have ask and embla
did you notice that too?

also i thought that yeshua was the proper pronounciation of jesus?

[edit on 26-5-2010 by ashanu90]

[edit on 26-5-2010 by ashanu90]

reply to post by ashanu90


moses was raised as an egyptian. he wrote the first five books of the bible. i do believe the egyptian creation story is identical to the sumerian one, the norse one, and etc, as you are picking up on as well.

this is where my ATUM theory comes in. the numbers after the words in the verse below, are the words that were actually in the verse. the rest of the words, were not in the original verse.

Gen 1:27 So God 430 created 1254 man 120 in his [own] image 6754, in the image 6754 of God 430 created 1254 he him; male 2145 and female 5347 created 1254 he them.

so that verse would read:

ELOHIM (the gods) created adam (probably a plural word) image. image elohim created. male female created.

in other words, the first ADAM was an entire race of males and females, who were collectively called the ADAM and cloned in the images of the gods.

i believe they were named after the egyptian god of creation, ATUM and the sumerian adapa, who would later be called adam.

that's the first adam creation.
the second adam creation is where adam is made from earth and eve cloned from his rib.

two different creations



[edit on 26-5-2010 by undo]

reply to post by undo


i hate to sound like a dummy but i dont understand the number thing


so whats with this epic battle in the end?
we gots odin/enlil? and his allies fighting loki/enki and his allies
is there something lost in translation?

so i take it enlil and enki are gunna rumble, and nobody knows for sure which is which who is good and who is bad whats with the stargates? that where loki's giant friends come into play?
it is said fenrir is loki's offspring does that mean enki/loki built the gate himself? but then what about the giantess wife of loki? did they work on it together? or perhaps the gate is a living thing? that loki and the giantess erm... you know?
that was a bit of a rant but heres more

whats your take on zues coming down to earth and.....getn busy with the mortal ladies?
in fact in alot of civilization the gods and supernaturaul beings came down to have relations with mortals
freya and the dwarfs
zues and the various women
the angels and humans(offspring called giants......loki's friends?)
ra/horus and some woman long long ago to make the pharohs bloodline
thats all i can think of currently

someone said somwhere in the bible it talks of the before time where giants roamed the earth(they said dinosaurs but who knows)
we have two different giants

the numbers after the words are from a bible concordance. every word with a number after it, was in the original hebrew text. every word without a number after it, was added by english translators, based on earlier greek and latin translations, which were translated from the original hebrew, aramaic and chaldean (old testament only. new testament was written in greek from the outset, then into latin and finally into german and english).

here's an example
www.blueletterbible.org...


wanna tell ya a funny story. one day a guy sent me an email telling me all about this group of aliens from some extra-terrestrial federation called GOD, which he said was an acronym for GALACTIC ORDER of DEITIES and they were the god of the bible. i sent him back an email and said, hmm, that's really quite strange considering GOD wasn't even the original word for god in the first place.

anyway, yeah we have ourselves a god problem. one created our current bodies and claims he can help us win back the favor of the big kahuna, who apparently doesn't like our species too much.

whenever you see the word "giantess" consider that the original giant concept came from the nephilim, who were yet another modification of the second adam.

1. first ATUM clone. self regenerating. immortal.
2. second ATUM made from mammal and clone DNA. not self-regenerating. mortal.
3. third ATUM made from the mammal DNA and more clone DNA, to act as kings and leaders of the second ATUM race. not self-regenerating. mortal.

or something like that.

the impression i get is that the third ATUM, called the nephilim in biblical texts, were also both in and out of favor with the gods. the book of 1enoch claims that the "giants" screwed this planet up terribly, with war and pollution and genetic modifications, till the food was no longer edible, droughts destroyed the remaining food and they began eating the remaining humans as a food source. i don't think they meant literal giants, however.

sitchin on the other hand, claims the nephilim are the anunnaki. i don't think so. they are only part anunnaki, as we are, although they are said to have more anunnaki DNA than us, they are still part mammal, just as we are.

as far as the gate and enki are concerned. the gate appeared to give BIRTH to the gods. so it was symbollized later, as a woman giving birth, a celestial womb.


[edit on 26-5-2010 by undo]

reply to post by undo


k thanks for clearing that up this has been a fascinating conversation

so any thoughts on the dinosaurs?
like were they perhaps the original inhabitants of this world before these gods came around?
i dont know i think that they are a key in wether or not this is true

Jörmungandr, the world serpent, is mostly likely the akkadian Tiamat reference in norse, in which case it is a reference to an abyss, a wormhole. some of the larger ones were at the bottom of large, deep bodies of water, like oceans, which is why the word "abyss" became associated with the ocean. however, it was originally based on the word "abzu", which simply meant underground tunnels to somewhere else, typically to some region of the heavens. the only way this seems likely is if it is talking about a mode of travel, that even though it is subterranean, it still inevitably goes out to the stars.

mythologists have always insisted the underground references were just referring to the ancient belief that the stars and planets disappeared into dark holes and caverns under the ground and water in the day time, and rose again in the night time. and although there's sufficient evidence to suggest this type of double metaphor did evolve in the ancient texts, i don't believe that was the original meaning.

reply to post by ashanu90


well, there's a writer that i like to refer to frequently on this subject, by the name of DAKE. he wrote a huge book called GOD'S PLAN FOR MAN. in it, he describes the planet earth as a testing ground, and that before humans were created, the prior inhabitants went thru their own testing cycle here. these are what we refer to today as angels. although not all angels were originally from earth, a special race of them were. the race was known as the seraphim. singular, seraph. a seraph is a "fiery" serpent. or simply a serpent. this is where we get into the meaning of the serpent in the garden.

during my research of ancient sumer, i found a photograph of an artifact from enki's sumerian city of eridu. it looks like a cross between a gray ET, a reptilian or amphibian and a mammal. it was the only statue i've been able to find a pic of, from eridu. and since it was holding an object that looked to be a symbol of power, i went with the idea that it was a statue of enki. 6 or more fingers on each hand. fangs instead of teeth. a snake shaped nose, or as the museum called it, "lizard shaped face"

to verify i was on the right track, i found a passage in one of the sumerian-akkadian texts in which enki is called great dragon. since dinosaurs were on the planet for a verrrry long time, this makes sense. and it fits with dake's ideas. not that enki was a dinosaur, but that reptiles and amphibians were the order of the day for hundreds of thousands of years.

reply to post by ashanu90


Just wanted to point out a few things to you, and I will try to do so gently because quite frankly I was very offended by the rude manner of your post and obvious ignorance of the real issues surrounding the topics you mentioned.

1) Your basing your post off of a conversation you heard over x-box live. I find it highly unlikely that either person would have any sort of educated background to support their argument whatsoever. Glad to see it got you thinking though.

2) The Christian gets points deducted for believing what he was taught to believe all his life? Many Christians accept Christ as their Savior long after they have left the nest. What about all the people who buy into the lie that the government is out to help them, that the civil war was about ending slavery, evolution is fact, and all that other bologna? Sounds to me like the majority of Americans are MORE brainwashed than the typical Christian.

3) There are plenty of well thought out books debunking those common scientific theories that are so often spouted as fact. This argument wont be won over the quality or quantity of books written to defend the position. I can assure you that if it was a decisive point in the argument, the Christian side would win because there is MUCH more literature based on it than any science theory.

4) Ok, history lesson. The Jews didn't just kill everybody they disagreed with. If you were a member of the community, you had to obey by the laws they had established and if you didn't, you suffered the consequences. They didn't slaughter every pagan town they came across because they disagreed. For the most part, the Jews only took cities offensively when the land was supposed to have been given to them by God. I give you my word that they had a much better reason than we do for the wars we go into today.

What savage mentality are you referring to in the New Testament? So far as I know, the entire thing is based off of the concept of "Love God and Love people." Actually, that's the main law that God gave from the very beginning, even in the Old Testament. Since you don't want scripture, I'll leave it out for now, but I guess that means you'll have to take my word for it. Now, the people God chose to represent Him did screw up plenty and did things they shouldn't have, but that does not change who God is.

5) You're right (kinda). King Solomon relected on all the wealth he had stored up and realized that it was all meaningless because when he died it would all be given away to other people and that he couldn't keep any of it. All of his work was for nothing. Everything he learned was for nothing. In the end, it seemed as though nothing mattered. Then he always returned to acknowledging that God was ruler of all and that our purpose was to love Him and that we would get to spend eternity living a life that actually had meaning and fulfillment when we enter into God's kingdom.

6) Tell me which of the ten commandments would be a bad one to make into a law. Seems to me that if people followed those laws everything would go pretty well. The only one I can see issue with is the law against serving no other gods, as that takes away from the freedom that people have to choose who they believe in or dont believe in.

7) I won't get you started on the crusades or inquisitions because they have nothing to do with God or real Christian faith. They have to do with Muslims slaughtering thousands of innocent people and taking over the land of millions. Those people who were forced to leave their homes eventually turned around and tried to take back what had been stolen from them after hundreds of years of being persecuted and slaughtered. Those people who went to fight the Muslims included but were definitely not limited to Christians. But the Christians who did go to fight were often mislead by corrupt men who had taken up positions of authority within the church. If you want to complain about that, then maybe I should bring up the millions killed by abortion every year, or our military's actions against innocent people around the world.

8) Yes, corrupt people still take positions of authority in the church. If I jhad it my way (Which is the way that the Bible would teach), all of these people in the church involved in that sickening behavior would be excommunicated and would never be able to have a position in the church again, even if they did repent. Claiming to be a Christian is not the same as being one. Being a Christina means following Christ. Since these wicked men are not following Christ, they cannot by definition be called Christians.

9) Yes, Benny Hinn will burn in Hell if he doesn't repent and change his ways. The Bible is very clear about those who pervert the good news of the Bible to try and get rich off of it. I actually did a paper on Benny in college and the man sickens me.


I'm sorry, but your rant was thrown together with bits and pieces from every angle you could possibly find to spew unsubstantiated claims against Christians and Christianity. Using the style that you did, any person could make an argument about anything they didn't like due to events that were similar or barely related. Please do yourself a favor and go do some research. I would highly suggest getting a study Bible so you know exactly what it is you claim is so evil. Perhaps you should start with the book of Matthew or Luke. Either one would help out a lot in your understanding.

reply to post by Mykahel


your avatar looks like this:
historylink101.net...

reply to post by uptheirons!


I would have to disagree about the "lack of paradise due to loved ones absence" being anything close to inspired. It's an argument that has been used by non-believers for, well, ever. It's logical, I'll give it that, but that's also why it has been around so long.

Here is my answer, or at least an illustration that IO hope helps answer the supposed problem.

Let's say that you are married to somebody, and so we'll just refer to them as your spouse for this story. This spouse is a person that you love dearly, and you feel like you could never, ever leave. You also have a child, who for this illustration will represent God. You love your child very, very much, but give most of your attention to your spouse, which is pretty normal actually.

Well, as life goes on, you realize that your spouse is beating your child. You love both people with all of your heart, but you don't know what to do. You rationalize your spous' behavior and actions, saying that the child deserves it for something they did. Eventually, you might even do mean things to your child as well. Then one day, your spouse is taken away from you. For whatever reason, you may blame your child (God) at first, btu then you will start to realize how terrible your spouse had been to your very own child. You will see how many times your child was beaten and abused, kicked and spit on by this person that you thought you loved. All the time this was happening, your child never once stopped loving you.

When we finally meet God, we may feel like we miss some of those people we loved in life, but then we will see how they treated the very God that gave us life and sacrificed His very Son so that we could live forever. We will see how this God of Love was spit on and insulted by everything those around us were doing, and we will feel terrible for how bad we ourselves treated God.

Hopefully that illustration gives you a new perspective to view that argument from.

God Bless.

reply to post by undo


Ummm.. maybe.

It's actually called a Chi Rho, and is one of the earliest symbols used by Christians to identify themselves as such. Wiki gives some pretty decent info on it for the most part.

Most people would see it and pretty much think of it as a shortened way to display Christ's name. It has absolutely nothing to do with the picture you posted though and has everything to do with the simple appearance of the letters used in it. If Greek looked different, the symbol would look different.

Many of the symbols also include, as mine does, the Greek for the letters "Alpha" and "Omega" being the first and the last, another name for God.

reply to post by Mykahel


yeah, i'm familar with what it means, i just commented that it looks like that. every time i see it, that's what it reminds me of.

reply to post by ashanu90


Believe what you want to. That's what is great about free will. Go play xbox and drink Mt. Dew.

The major sources for myths about Jörmungandr are the Prose Edda, Húsdrápa, Hymiskviða, and Völuspá. Less important sources include kennings in skaldic poetry. For example in Þórsdrápa, faðir lögseims, "father of the sea-thread", is used as a kenning for Loki.

en.wikipedia.org...

Tiamat was the "shining" personification of salt water who roared and smote in the chaos of original creation. She and Apsu filled the cosmic abyss with the primeval waters. She is "Ummu-Hubur who formed all things".

en.wikipedia.org...

same.
same.

[edit on 27-5-2010 by undo]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/aee1f44facfb3aa6.jpg[/atsimg]

Religion pisses me off.

I am a believer that there is a 'God', or better yet, a creator. I have my reasons and my own proof of this and it is my own. Get your own

But... religion is a crime!

The bible is a BOOK written in the stone age. It is a beautiful book, with wonderful inspiring stories and such and I do believe what's written in it is a part of our world history.

But...

It does NOT reveal what our purpose is here on earth and it was never meant to! No one knows the answer to that question and we never will; not until we die.

The bible for the most part was meant for the Jews who have the most complicated set of rules in their religion. They still follow those same rules until this day. It's mostly the history of THEIR people. It was also written from a different perspective. So what, who cares.

These religious fanatics are insane nowadays! They are over-analyzing the bible and forcing their perspective of it on others.

The Catholic Religion is #1 on the list of Religions gone Insane.
One of them told me, that if I didnt get my child baptize by THEIR religion, and GOD FORBID something happened to my child, she would NOT go to heaven!!!!!! What kind of religious persons says that??

My point is, we humans, of ALL religions, have NO IDEA what the heck we are doing on this planet and why. There has to be a reason, because nothing can happen without a reason. But the answer is not in religion; it is in yourself.

Ok Ash , I hope that's ok for short? If you like something better let me know. Let me ask you this? If it's been asked please fogrive. Does this look like the blood of a dead man to you? Simple yes or no will suffice.


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0a38ea5fb6b3.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by randyvs


thats a very strange question to ask
but im sure your going somewhere with this
so no it doesnt look like a dead mans blood to me

Originally posted by Mykahel
reply to post by ashanu90

 

2) The Christian gets points deducted for believing what he was taught to believe all his life? Many Christians accept Christ as their Savior long after they have left the nest. What about all the people who buy into the lie that the government is out to help them, that the civil war was about ending slavery, evolution is fact, and all that other bologna? Sounds to me like the majority of Americans are MORE brainwashed than the typical Christian.

plenty of christians "accept christ" from an early age too ive seen it
my gf dragged me to church once because she was doing a play for an entire week. anyway at the end of the week the church people asked the little kids who decided to accept jesus?
damn near everyone of those kids raised their hands
it's called indoctrination and it very often targets with young children who, lets face it, can be tricked into believing anything
you realize the fbi rescues tons of minors (who are so sheltered that they can be 16 and not have a clue what sex is or where babies come from) from morman "utopias" or whatever they call it.

3) There are plenty of well thought out books debunking those common scientific theories that are so often spouted as fact. This argument wont be won over the quality or quantity of books written to defend the position. I can assure you that if it was a decisive point in the argument, the Christian side would win because there is MUCH more literature based on it than any science theory.

would you like to share a few? cuz im not buying it

4) Ok, history lesson. The Jews didn't just kill everybody they disagreed with. If you were a member of the community, you had to obey by the laws they had established and if you didn't, you suffered the consequences. They didn't slaughter every pagan town they came across because they disagreed. For the most part, the Jews only took cities offensively when the land was supposed to have been given to them by God. I give you my word that they had a much better reason than we do for the wars we go into today.

you cheat on your wife and its ok to throw rocks at your face till you die? ill agree cheating is bad but capitol punishment is just unecassary.
so someone has their land and its ok to just slaughter them all and rape their women? that's still not very morale.
so the jews can kill people for being in lands that they claimed were "rightfully theirs" ok fine whatever i still disagree
but then hitler sends them to concentration camps for reasons he believed were divine and thats bad? whats up?

What savage mentality are you referring to in the New Testament? So far as I know, the entire thing is based off of the concept of "Love God and Love people." Actually, that's the main law that God gave from the very beginning, even in the Old Testament. Since you don't want scripture, I'll leave it out for now, but I guess that means you'll have to take my word for it. Now, the people God chose to represent Him did screw up plenty and did things they shouldn't have, but that does not change who God is.

i know ive read a few savageries there
i dont recall but i know i saw it

5) You're right (kinda). King Solomon relected on all the wealth he had stored up and realized that it was all meaningless because when he died it would all be given away to other people and that he couldn't keep any of it. All of his work was for nothing. Everything he learned was for nothing. In the end, it seemed as though nothing mattered. Then he always returned to acknowledging that God was ruler of all and that our purpose was to love Him and that we would get to spend eternity living a life that actually had meaning and fulfillment when we enter into God's kingdom.

i still think that either he was made up or tricked himself into a comforting lie

6) Tell me which of the ten commandments would be a bad one to make into a law. Seems to me that if people followed those laws everything would go pretty well. The only one I can see issue with is the law against serving no other gods, as that takes away from the freedom that people have to choose who they believe in or dont believe in.

well obviously adulterey
it is not the governments bussiness to monitor our personal relationships
“Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water below.” so basically its wrong to draw or paint which is B.S. ill doodle what i want when i want
“Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain”. freedom of speech
“Honour thy father and thy mother” like i said our personal relationships are our bussiness domestic disturbance however is another story

7) I won't get you started on the crusades or inquisitions because they have nothing to do with God or real Christian faith. They have to do with Muslims slaughtering thousands of innocent people and taking over the land of millions. Those people who were forced to leave their homes eventually turned around and tried to take back what had been stolen from them after hundreds of years of being persecuted and slaughtered. Those people who went to fight the Muslims included but were definitely not limited to Christians. But the Christians who did go to fight were often mislead by corrupt men who had taken up positions of authority within the church. If you want to complain about that, then maybe I should bring up the millions killed by abortion every year, or our military's actions against innocent people around the world.

corrupt men who used the bible, who used RELIGION to get people to do their bidding much like the military and PATRIOTISM
the inquisition were an awful thing have you ever read or heard about the various tortures? i dont really want to speak of it but heres an example
sometimes they would tie a string or rope or whatever to a herectics er genitalia and aattach a weight to the other and just drop it
got anything to say about various witch trials and the torture s of innocent people?
millions killed by abortion.....hmmm... abortion is bad ok so whats this about?;

Hosea 9:11-16 Hosea prays for God’s intervention. “Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer. Give them, 0 Lord: what wilt thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. . .Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.” Clearly Hosea desires that the people of Ephraim can no longer have children. God of course obeys by making all their unborn children miscarry. Is not terminating a pregnancy unnaturally “abortion”?

Numbers 5:11-21 The description of a bizarre, brutal and abusive ritual to be performed on a wife SUSPECTED of adultery. This is considered to be an induced abortion to rid a woman of another man’s child.

Numbers 31:17 (Moses) “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women that hath known man by lying with him.” In other words: women that might be pregnant, which clearly is abortion for the fetus.

Hosea 13:16 God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria and the “their women with child shall be ripped up”. Once again this god kills the unborn, including their pregnant mothers.

2 Kings 15:16 God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah (aka Tiphsah) to be “ripped open”. And the Christians have the audacity to say god is pro-life. How and the hell is it that Christians can read passages where God allows pregnant women to be murdered, yet still claim abortion is wrong?

Infanticide:

1 Samuel 15:3 God commands the death of helpless "suckling" infants. This literally means that the children god killed were still nursing.

Psalms 135:8 & 136:10 Here god is praised for slaughtering little babies.

Psalms 137:9 Here god commands that infants should be “dashed upon the rocks”.

8) Yes, corrupt people still take positions of authority in the church. If I jhad it my way (Which is the way that the Bible would teach), all of these people in the church involved in that sickening behavior would be excommunicated and would never be able to have a position in the church again, even if they did repent. Claiming to be a Christian is not the same as being one. Being a Christina means following Christ. Since these wicked men are not following Christ, they cannot by definition be called Christians.

but inothings really being done is it?

9) Yes, Benny Hinn will burn in Hell if he doesn't repent and change his ways. The Bible is very clear about those who pervert the good news of the Bible to try and get rich off of it. I actually did a paper on Benny in college and the man sickens me.

im glad we can agree on something

I'm sorry, but your rant was thrown together with bits and pieces from every angle you could possibly find to spew unsubstantiated claims against Christians and Christianity. Using the style that you did, any person could make an argument about anything they didn't like due to events that were similar or barely related. Please do yourself a favor and go do some research. I would highly suggest getting a study Bible so you know exactly what it is you claim is so evil. Perhaps you should start with the book of Matthew or Luke. Either one would help out a lot in your understanding.

well maybe ill take a look but i cant guarentee a changed attitude

[edit on 28-5-2010 by ashanu90]

[edit on 28-5-2010 by ashanu90]