another reason why i think religious people are being fooled

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posted on May, 26 2010 @ 12:19 AM
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you guys have some interesting thougths but let me lay something else on you if christianity is true, then why are we still here? this question was brought up after reading this

According to the Bible the “End Times” Should Have ALREADY Occurred!
 
    Jesus and his apostles made MANY prophecies concerning the Armageddon.  Christians would have you believe that it shall come as “a thief in the night”.  Yet, the Bible is rather clear concerning when it would happen.  Matter of fact, the Bible consistently said it would follow soon after Jesus’ death.  When you point out such verses to Christians they will try to weasel it out of it by saying Christ was talking about his “future” apostles versus the ones he was directly speaking to.  All it takes is a close examinations of the pronouns used in order to see that Christ truly did believe the end times would have happened nearly 2,000 years ago.  Keep in mind that the Bible claims it is “fit for reproof’ and Christianity “lives and dies on the resurrection and end times”.  If we are to believe these verses and accept that the end time prophecies failed then surely the whole book is invalid.
 
False Prophecies About the Armageddon:
Jesus’ Predictions:
1) Jesus falsely prophesies DIRECTLY to the high priest (Caiphas) that he would live to see his second coming.  Jesus uses the term “coming on the clouds of heaven”.  This clearly negates the “coming” as the resurrection but as a return to the earth on CLOUDS, not his return in human form from the dead.  Matthew 26:64 & Mark 14:62.
"But I tell you: From now on you will see 'the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power' and 'coming on the clouds of heaven.'"  (Matthew 26:64 NAB)
Then Jesus answered, "I am; and 'you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.'"  (Mark 14:62 NAB)
2) Jesus mistakenly tells his followers that he will return and establish his kingdom within their lifetime. Matthew 23:36 & 24:34
Amen, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.  (Matthew 23:36 NAB)
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.  And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.  And he will send out his angels with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.  "Learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branch becomes tender and sprouts leaves, you know that summer is near.  In the same way, when you see all these things, know that he is near, at the gates.  Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place.  Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.  (Matthew 24:29-35 NAB)
3) YET AGAIN, Jesus claims those standing RIGHT BEFORE HIM shall see the Armageddon.  Matthew 16:28 “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”  Don’t let Christians lie to you and claim Jesus was referring to his modern day believers.  The words “some standing HERE will not taste death” clearly refutes such nonsense.  Obviously the people he was speaking to died, and curiously Jesus STILL isn’t here to claim his kingdom.
4) Jesus falsely prophesies that the end of the world will come within his listeners’ lifetimes. 
Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.  (Mark 13:30-31 NAB)
He also said to them, "Amen, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come in power."  (Mark 9:1 NAB)
5) Jesus falsely predicts that some of his listeners would live to see him return and establish the kingdom of God.
"Truly I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:27 NAB)
6) Jesus implies that he will return to earth during the lifetime of John. (John 21:22)
7) Jesus says that all that he describes (his return, signs in the sun, moon, wars, stars, etc.) will occur within the lifetime of his listeners.  He purposely defines their generation and NOT a future one.  Considering that NONE of those signs took place during the resurrection and that he uses the term of “Heaven and earth shall pass away”, Clearly Jesus is prophesizing that nearly 2,000 years ago Armageddon SHOULD have occurred.  Luke 21:25-33
"There will be signs in the sun, the moon, and the stars, and on earth nations will be in dismay, perplexed by the roaring of the sea and the waves.  People will die of fright in anticipation of what is coming upon the world, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.  And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.  But when these signs begin to happen, stand erect and raise your heads because your redemption is at hand."  He taught them a lesson. "Consider the fig tree and all the other trees.  When their buds burst open, you see for yourselves and know that summer is now near; in the same way, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.  Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place.  Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.  (Luke 21:25-33 NAB)
[Editor's note:  Matthew 10:23 also has Jesus telling his disciples that the second coming will occur before the disciples finish preaching in Israel:  "When they persecute you in one town, flee to another. Amen, I say to you, you will not finish the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes."  (Matthew 10:23 NAB)]




posted on May, 26 2010 @ 12:21 AM
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Originally posted by MaxSteiner
Right, so once again we come to the main arguament of 90% of all athiests.
You're rebelling against you parents


Really would like to try this arguament with someone who'd actually read some religious texts, but every time its someone who was raised catholic as a child, rebelled in their teens and has been an athiest ever since.
They haven't read anything else, they don't care about anything else.
You can't argue with them because they don't have any sort of grasp of anything beside the discarded religion of their parents or school... really distressing in way, read the upanishads, maybe the book of zohar, hell anything which isnt the bible, it'd make these generic topics alot more interesting!

i dont know what any of those books are, however i did once read a book about wicca and i also read most of the necronomicon, ive read through most of the old testament and some of the new testament
and i could not find it in myself to take any of it seriously



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 12:23 AM
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Why don't Athiests ever understand allegory?
Is it merly the materialistic mindset rebelling against anything which isn't physical?
Does this tie into the sins of the parents (which is usually the early trauma of realising that ones parents are fallable, if they can be wrong then anything can be wrong, hence there can be no perfect godhead) I wonder...
It always seems to me that the Atheists vision of god is always far more personal than that of the average religious person, the concept never progresses beyond that of a child, an all seeing, all knowing, compassionate god who loves everything and knows how many hairs upon your head and all that jazz.

I think alot of the problem is that people aren't even arguing about the same thing when they talk about religion, what they are really doing is butting ego's like some rutting stag in matting season, no quarter asked for or given, it really is alot like politics when you think about it



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 12:27 AM
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reply to post by novastrike81
 


why should i have to choose whats the point of there being heaven and hell? theres really no point to existance if you ask me
youve read my earlier posts so i guess theres realy no point in answering that for you

another thing you said no man shall kill another man, however dont most if not all of the ten commendments require the death penalty if broken?

what about when moses and his army invaded medinae or whatever and killed everyone except young virgin woman which they kept to marry (super rape)
how is it just to kill an entire country of men women and children? and then turn around and say killing is wrong? hypocrasy!



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 12:31 AM
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Right, so there we go.
You have read bits of one version of the bible, 1 book about wicca which was largely created in victorian times, and a made up occult book from the 70's.
You've never heard of one of the major books of the MAJOR world religions...

But somehow that makes you qualified to judge all religion?
Seriously whats wrong with you? How do you think that gives you enough information to make any sort of decision one way or the other?

All you're doing is spouting your gut instinct, judging thousands of years of human achievement on you're extremly limited and flawed exposure.

If you'd read the Bible, Koran and the Bhagva-gita you might have a leg to stand on, but as it stands at the moment, this is an arguament you hsould be having with your mom...



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 12:34 AM
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Originally posted by MaxSteiner
Why don't Athiests ever understand allegory?
Is it merly the materialistic mindset rebelling against anything which isn't physical?
Does this tie into the sins of the parents (which is usually the early trauma of realising that ones parents are fallable, if they can be wrong then anything can be wrong, hence there can be no perfect godhead) I wonder...
It always seems to me that the Atheists vision of god is always far more personal than that of the average religious person, the concept never progresses beyond that of a child, an all seeing, all knowing, compassionate god who loves everything and knows how many hairs upon your head and all that jazz.

I think alot of the problem is that people aren't even arguing about the same thing when they talk about religion, what they are really doing is butting ego's like some rutting stag in matting season, no quarter asked for or given, it really is alot like politics when you think about it



because we are down to earth
logically minded
inquisitive
make hypothosis from the things around us

why do christians barely relate to anything physichal?
because their conditioned to unquestionably believe
they dont care about the details as long as they get their heavenly rewards(sounds selfish in a way dont it?)
they are out of touch with the real world

now please note i dont claim all christians arent like this
the ones who dont fall under the category of zealous brainwashed myrmidon, i think fall under the category of people who have been tricked or tricked themselves(usually the latter) into a comforting lie. if you want a name for that category i guess id have to call them half-ass christians

no offense to anyone



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 12:37 AM
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reply to post by ashanu90
 


Nice RANT quoting a RANT!



I'd have to say, I wouldn't give either side any brownie points.

They're both onto something, yet so far far away from the truth.

It's impossible to look OUTwards for the big 'G' Man/Woman/It... impossible!

Both are doing just that. One mind is going to religion for answers, and the other towards science. But both can (and I feel, do) essentially play a part! (LIFE is a HUGE Puzzle... Find the pieces, and put that sh*t together again)

What are the best tools to control the populace?
-For those who know or guessed it...

-For some that didn't.... Politics and Religion!

Politics is a given... but how does religion play a role as a government?

Simple.

To "govern" something, is to rule over by right of authority.

Ok, sooo.... what does "ment" mean?

Ment is english from the spanish word "mente."

And "mente" means MIND.


I believe we are all infinite consciousness who sprouted from
the ONEMIND. "First cause" works for me as well.

Now you might ask me where's the proof that consciousness exists.
(for all you science buffs)
-Tell me how anyone can find consciousness when using their
conscious. Can't be done. Science deals objectively, not
subjectively.

Anything and everything does not just magically disappear, (unless of
course dealing with OPTICAL ILLUSIONS) but instead, changes form.
Experiment if you will.... (taking a dump can be a start
)


"We Are NOT Physical Bodies With Souls.
We Are Spiritual Beings Having A Physical Experience.
We Are Essentially Just Gathering Experiences."



EDIT TO ADD: Im not a knockoff of the member "TheGiantPeach"

Just having problems logging into that account


[edit on 26-5-2010 by TheGiantPeach4]

[edit on 26-5-2010 by TheGiantPeach4]



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 12:39 AM
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Originally posted by MaxSteiner
Right, so there we go.
You have read bits of one version of the bible, 1 book about wicca which was largely created in victorian times, and a made up occult book from the 70's.
You've never heard of one of the major books of the MAJOR world religions...

But somehow that makes you qualified to judge all religion?
Seriously whats wrong with you? How do you think that gives you enough information to make any sort of decision one way or the other?

All you're doing is spouting your gut instinct, judging thousands of years of human achievement on you're extremly limited and flawed exposure.

If you'd read the Bible, Koran and the Bhagva-gita you might have a leg to stand on, but as it stands at the moment, this is an arguament you hsould be having with your mom...


what a dick thing to say
at least im honest or will you condemn me for that too?
i can tell your not a christian
the reason i didnt read all the bible is because i was disgusted with it
a few hundred pages of incest, rape, and genocide was enough for me

so i take it youve read the bible? and you have read the same pages i have about all those things i mentioned and you still find it valid? you have a sick mindset and questionable morales. but then again what are morales? why should anyone care?

i think i have just as much a leg to stand on as anyone else also, you just judged me, which is a sin, you are a hypocrite



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 12:43 AM
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Originally posted by ashanu90
why do christians barely relate to anything physichal?


And that little Freudian slip pretty much wraps up you're entire arguament


You don't know about any other religions at all.
So you aren't talking about religious people.
You've clearly got some axe to grind against christianity (and I heavily suspect your mother), and whatever it is, its blinded your mind to the point where you lump it all together as the same thing, then feel the need to post topics on a conspiracy website saying god can't exist because you're mom couldn't tell you how the dinosaurs died out....



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 12:43 AM
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Originally posted by TheGiantPeach4
reply to post by ashanu90
 


Nice RANT quoting a RANT!



I'd have to say, I wouldn't give either side any brownie points.

They're both onto something, yet so far far away from the truth.

It's impossible to look OUTwards for the big 'G' Man/Woman/It... impossible!

Both are doing just that. One mind is going to religion for answers, and the other towards science. But both can (and I feel, do) essentially play a part! (LIFE is a HUGE Puzzle... Find the pieces, and put that sh*t together again)

What are the best tools to control the populace?
-For those who know or guessed it...

-For some that didn't.... Politics and Religion!

Politics is a given... but how does religion play a role as a government?

Simple.

To "govern" something, is to rule over by right of authority.

Ok, sooo.... what does "ment" mean?

Ment is english from the spanish word "mente."

And "mente" means MIND.


I believe we are all infinite consciousness who sprouted from
the ONEMIND. "First cause" works for me as well.

Now you might ask me where's the proof that consciousness exists.
(for all you science buffs)
-Tell me how anyone can find consciousness when using their
conscious. Can't be done. Science deals objectively, not
subjectively.

Anything and everything does not just magically disappear, (unless of
course dealing with OPTICAL ILLUSIONS) but instead, changes form. Experiment if you will....


"We Are NOT Physical Bodies With Souls.
We Are Spiritual Beings Having A Physical Experience.
We Are Essentially Just Gathering Experiences."



EDIT TO ADD: Im not a knockoff of the member "TheGiantPeach"

Just having problems logging into that account


[edit on 26-5-2010 by TheGiantPeach4]

"james james james how are you isnt it a loveley day?"
lol your name reminds me of a movie i saw when i was little
i like your thoughts and i also like how your not being a jerk like SOME people. star for you, though i do not believe the things you say i will however give it some thought



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 12:46 AM
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Originally posted by MaxSteiner

Originally posted by ashanu90
why do christians barely relate to anything physichal?


And that little Freudian slip pretty much wraps up you're entire arguament


You don't know about any other religions at all.
So you aren't talking about religious people.
You've clearly got some axe to grind against christianity (and I heavily suspect your mother), and whatever it is, its blinded your mind to the point where you lump it all together as the same thing, then feel the need to post topics on a conspiracy website saying god can't exist because you're mom couldn't tell you how the dinosaurs died out....

damn im glad i put on my flamewar armour
you dont think i know anything about any other religion huh? just because i havent read the koran or the bhudhist and hindu books
i guess you have
so please enlighten me since your so knowledgeble



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 12:46 AM
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reply to post by MaxSteiner
 




It always seems to me that the Atheists vision of god is always far more personal than that of the average religious person


What do you mean personal? You are aware that many Christians are taught to believe in having a PERSONAL relationship with Jesus and God right?



Why don't Athiests ever understand allegory?


Because many Christians go around teaching the Bible as the direct 100% perfect Word of God. I've got no issue with people taking the Bible as a metaphorical or allegorical book but I do take issue with those that claim it is historically or scientifically viable and depicts literal events and a literal deity. The God of the Bible is downright evil and yet Christians enjoy saying that their God is Love... guess I'm not seeing the allegorical meaning eh


If there was a God I'd pray for him to teach people how to spell atheist correctly. Perhaps the Bible should have a passage reinforcing that i before e rule.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 12:50 AM
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reply to post by MaxSteiner
 


your not really following the thread are you?
your just picking fights
mods!!! cyber bully!!!! help!! ahhhh!!!! ahh!!!!

but seriously enough with the personal attacks man
ill even be polite
will you please stick to the issue? thank you



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 12:51 AM
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No Im not a christian.

I heavily suspect you and I had similar childhoods though, because I was raised as one, and went to catholic schools (which was great you got a free bus pass, and people always assume you're much smarter than you are when they find out).

But instead of reading a bit of the old testement and basing your entire view of religion on that (which if you think about it makes you an anti semite as well as anti christian...), I've read a bit more, and decided it doesn't matter what people belive in as long as I don't have to hear the same tired arguaments over and over and over again.

All views are equally valid. The only truth lies in the dialectic between polar oposites.

Don't mean to get personal, but I've heard this spiel of alot of athiests.
And I know you think it makes ya'll sound worldy and wise, but it really doesn't, just makes people think you have parenting issues...



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 12:52 AM
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reply to post by ashanu90
 


When people get mad or irritated in the subject,
they only fear that they can be wrong, since they
don't fully believe in what they say they believe in.
Insecurities plays a major role as well.

I have a book for you to read....

The best and most interesting book i've laid my hand on.
I know you will find it of interest as well. My buddy seems
on course with your system, so far that I can tell anyway,
and he loves this book. A great, fast read with big print!
(I like em that way)

EDGAR CAYCE on the Akashic Records: THE BOOK OF LIFE

Tellin you... and everyone else in this thread...
Great Book For A Great Buy!



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 12:57 AM
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Not a personaly attack on you by the way, its a personal attack on all athiests.

Maybe things are different in the UK.
But I've NEVER had a religous person harp on at me the way Athiests do (And that includes all the years at catholic school!).
Every religous person who's ever spoken to me about it accepts, and leaves me to it when I explain that my religous views do not coincide with theirs.
But I've been hassled by Athiests for saying Im Agnostic, and its even worse when they're online


I just find it a bit weird that you feel as though you can speak about something without reading, or understanding many of the concepts expressed throughout the many faiths.
Its like being cornered by a moon landing conspiracy nut in a bar, who's telling you mankind could not possibly have got into space, when you know DAMN WELL he hasn't even got a grasp on high school science.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 12:58 AM
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reply to post by MaxSteiner
 


id say somewhat similair
i was raised baptist
i will admit alot of the anti religion does come from my childhood but alot of it i have truly and honestly thought about it, and i got the conclusion i have now.

also earlier you said i may be an anti semite
so heres my question for you

a group of jews goes about various acts of genocide and rape and incest
and i have a problem with it, why does that make me an anti semite
the nazis killed tons of people in camps and i hope you have a problem with that, if you do does that mean you hate germans? its the same thing



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 12:59 AM
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reply to post by ashanu90
 


Not to battle your belief system but do have a question.

Where did we come from?



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 01:00 AM
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reply to post by TheGiantPeach4
 


thanks for the info ill check it out



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 01:01 AM
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reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 


You know grammar whoring is the lowest form of arguament don't you?
If this was a published letter, maybe you'd have a point, but its the internet


Besides Im sure I could trawl your posts and find the odd spelling mistake too lol





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