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another reason why i think religious people are being fooled

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posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 05:38 PM
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And please understand, true Christians feel guilty about their mistakes, not cavalier because they're forgiven.

As I see it, you are offended by hypocrites, not Christians. There is a difference between being pompous and deceived, and being human and grateful God understands.

Not agreeing to wicked things like murder, extortion, injustice, etc, is what being a Christian is. We are not here to save the world, but to tell how He saved it, that is our job. It is usually our joy, except when someone is really down and reaching out, and there is skepticism standing between them and God, who they really need.

There is also a huge difference in flaming and disagreement. Also exposition of a point is not being smug. Searching for the truth is not hateful, and neither is being strong.

PC was not my idea, and I do not subscribe to it. Instead, I subscribe to the truth, about myself, and about what I encounter.

That is what I wish you could see more of. And it really doesn't matter what anyone says on their blog. I don't have one and I don't think it matters at all, so I'd say just consider that minimal in your thoughts about Christians, what they are and what people claim them to be.

Hiding behind that label are a lot of wolves, on this we completely agree. That's why so many of them will not come here, and the flamers you expected are not to be found here.

Again, disagreement. Not the same as flaming. I would know, since it came from me, lol.

What was your point in creating this thread?




posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 05:43 PM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


lol, I didn't start any of this, friend. I do not accept responsibility for proving anything, not my job, nor my desire.

The truth does not need me to validate it any more than gravity needs to be understood to be effective and true.


Generalizing labels do not add anything to this discussion, especially since I never identified myself as a theist, lol. And questioning God relentlessly led me from being a hardcore atheist who helped found the first freethought association in my state to being whoever I am today, in love with someone real.

I don't think others are dumb, so please do not assume I am. lol Because you would be wrong again.



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by Copperflower
 


Question to Copperflower:

Do you think the crusaders felt remorse or guilt when they killed so many people in the name of their god, as god's will?

This was allowed and seen as good because it was "god's will"

This ammount of tyranny cannot go on, especially under the name of your specific god. This is why it is enslavement of the mind. At least in North Korea you can get out the corrupt dictatorship at death, but it Christianity you are endamned after death, that is truely truely slavery of the mind.

We still have this nonsense going on in the east, people blowing each others Mosque's up in the name of their specific god, because their god only wanted people to follow him, truely awful.



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 06:31 PM
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First of all the beauty of being A Christian is forgivness of sins,so there for I don't have to be righteous.Also faith is a gift from God.One cannot intellectually find faith.I don't question rather or not there is a God but sometimes wonder if he abandons some people.



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 06:36 PM
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The thoughts and feelings of Crusaders are best left to them, my curious friend. Who am I to speculate? Some research would really help you find out what they thought, so many of them, so long ago.

It will surely come up that many were misled into going because of "sinful" relatives they believed would gain reprieves for their deeds. Also indulgences. Fascinating and horrible stuff. I can't wait to see what you find.


By my "specific god" you mean Yahweh, right? and His wonderful Son, Yahushua Ha Machiach, the one that gave Himself, and was rewarded by Yahweh with the right to bring anyone He wanted into Heaven?

And He chose all of us? That one, right? My Islamic friends don't say anything about blowing up anything when we feed poor and homeless people together. We both love the kind and good God who loves the poor. Is that the one you refer to? Because that is obviously not correct. Any Christian or Muslim can tell you better than you can tell them, because it's their religion. Come on.

Do you want the truth? Are you just here to try and hurt people?

[edit on 7-6-2010 by Copperflower]



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by debz325
First of all the beauty of being A Christian is forgivness of sins,so there for I don't have to be righteous.Also faith is a gift from God.One cannot intellectually find faith.I don't question rather or not there is a God but sometimes wonder if he abandons some people.


Faith is believing in something without evidence, faith is blind, its not gift from "God" because god is a concept made by man, and faith is a human trait and is not needed and is just a self-gratifying dilusion. Its like prayers, why pray for something noble, when you can go out and be noble, why pray for strength, when you just have to be strong. Prayer is useless.

A christian is forgiveness of sins? you only are responsible for yourself, you do wrong, you seek forgiveness in those who you wronged. Its morality and ethics and we as humans all have them and we don't need to falsely believe in a divine being to be forgiven. How do the preists work out that their particular god demands that you must not eat ham, or be a homosexual? Because proving the existance of your god, is completely different from proving that there is infact A GOD.

Its completely suspect that people need this in their life, they tell us that we're are sinners as if without god they would be raping, stealing, telling lies, comminting "adultry". ...

What about an eskimo who hasn't seen a religious scripture, has he sinned should he have to pray and beg for forgiveness, no because he doesn't understand sin because its a man made control word and is completely subjective to which "god" or gods you believe in.

What about Zeus? people have just as right to believe in this story as yours, people would climb mount Olympus to find this god, and then they'd say "oh well he exists outside of this reality outside of the universe" therefore making it impossible to prove wrong. Its retarded.

Please i insist people use their intelligence to re-consider this nonsense.

[edit on 7/6/10 by awake_and_aware]



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 07:13 PM
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reply to post by Copperflower
 


I don't doubt that there are good things in your religion, I don't doubt you are a fairly morale person...but you have a little further to go before you prove that religion is a good thing.

For example,

name anything a religious person can do for civilisation that someone of secular values (i.e. ME) can't do?

The thing is, in religion you can do wikid things, like boycott homosexuality, claim you am more righteous than someone, because it is written in scripture, you could propose irrational things like condoms are evil and such like and you could also kill in the name of divine being because you thought that was right and what your god wanted.

Doing anything under the belief that it was instructed by a cosmic overlord is just insanity at its best. See thats the thing, a religious person can do evil things and claim them as good, through their SPECIFIC god's will.

This is Wrong. this is slavery of the mind. Heaven and Hell is slavery of the mind. and fear-mongering at its worst, and its heart-warming to know that they are teaching less of it too our future generations in education. and that the USA separates church from state. shame mine's still ruled by the Church of England, formed by a corrupt king proposing new legislations, that "god" had proposed.

Just be a good person, believe in truth and reality and live a good life, don't be a servant to a fictional being, you're not going to hell, but just learn to be moral, empathetic, loving, logical, forgiving, rational.


[edit on 7/6/10 by awake_and_aware]



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 11:22 PM
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Awake, I am not here to defend things that are not based in love, I am not here to respond to the word "wicked" in reference to homosexuality unless we bring all sin into it, which I, as a Christian, have already faced and face daily.

I also never said religion was positive or good. Religion is a word used to describe spiritual practices.

Of course one doesn't need to have a spiritual life to do good things, silly, but people do fight to the death for the right to have one. I take that very seriously, as well. I used to be an atheist, after all, and because of my former career in journalism, I had every reason to believe I would spend a long and successful career fighting everything about religion, and indeed the whole concept of it. Even then, however, the idea was attractive to me only in the way that everyone should have the right to choose for themselves, not through indoctrination.

Which is so ironic, given that I was very sad about not being taken to church by my parents as a child, and that finally stopped mattering as God helped me to understand them as human beings, not just people to blame.
Trouble comes into every life, after all. We do overcome, as well, and those are crucial things to keep in mind.

Furthermore, I have an IQ formally documented at 129, at age 11, and informally as high as the 140's. I would know if I was in slavery....lol.

Thanks for caring though. I have made a series of informed decisions, for many years, investigating science and social/cultural studies, as well as reading the OT and learning art history about many, many cultures of the world, from a very long time ago.

So, I'm hoping this qualifies me to be believed, though that should not be necessary, if fairness was as possible as you seem to be saying it is. Possible doesn't cut it for me as much as reality, and there's more goodness, wonder, discovery, enlightenment, comfort, wisdom, rescue, help, ideas, imagination, freedom and joy, hope, healing, and peace in my reality since I turned to God freely and honestly, as though He were real.

It turned out He was listening, and made me so surprised with His ways, His gentleness, His unending patience, and most of all His amazing ways of letting me know He was there for me. I expected to be wrong, and just standing there talking to myself. But that just didn't happen. It's a long story, but it was the beginning of a story that starts when each of us gains life here. We all have our own, and our own language with that One who loves us, and knows our names. If you just treat Him as though He is real, and you are a person of peace, curiosity, and genuine love for goodness, He will certainly respond to you, in a way that only He would know.

Ask your question from the deepest, best part of you, for that's where He will answer.

I'd love to hear your results? If you're willing...but know this, He sets people free. That's the truth from a real live one of them.

Do you have a question for me personally? Or do you just need to vent?

It's okay either way. I hope we can continue to clear up these things together.


With the Holy Spirit, which is only possible when we seek to respond in love, all things are truly possible.

I look forward to your next post, my frustrated friend.


[edit on 7-6-2010 by Copperflower]



posted on Jun, 8 2010 @ 02:52 AM
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Any Religion organized or not is to control the masses. It is a CONTROL. Those in power want nice little dutiful subjects. Any one subscribing to such should rethink things.



posted on Jun, 8 2010 @ 04:23 AM
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Lol, it's not controlling me.

There should be a distinction made between organized religious groups and those who simply are in love with the God from whom every good thing comes, the One who knows every word we write and why, and whose understanding cannot be fathomed.

Of course it doesn't add up. That's what love is. No child can repay his or her parent for love, we don't marry and grow old together necessarily for what we get out of it rationally.

Even so, our biology shows us it is better for us, as social creatures, to wonder, to believe, to hope and to dream. None of these things are about nice neat numbers in a column, life cannot be quantified merely in figures or facts.

Who doesn't know that? His Love makes no sense to us because we understand only human things.

But if we read His thoughts in the Bible, spoken through the words of those who have experienced it themselves (eyewitness accounts), we find that He expresses emotions. He is not a dead, towering statue of terror to us.

He offers love. He only wants love in return. God agreed that He could bring anyone He wanted into Heaven, and He said all would have the right to come if they wished.

It's that simple. They made an agreement, and we can take it or leave it.

But there are certainly big consequences to this decision if God IS real, so it bears a bit of serious investigating, not a bunch of emotionally-charged ranting about bits and pieces of history.

I also am somewhat disappointed to see that Awake and Aware has completely forgotten those deep and meaningful questions about the Crusaders, etc. I suspect that it is not that important, except to bring up the past no one can change, to derail people who may wish to seek a Higher Power for themselves.

So I am done. Many intelligent people, including Einstein, felt the most rational approach to the question of God's existence was a simple and elegant approach:

It does no harm to love and honor a possible God who is talented, orderly, a genius (Einstein studied the creation, remember, and noticed its organization), and possibly perfect. If there is no God, of course, no harm is done. One has allowed for a rational possibility, based on observed evidence of purpose and design in nature.

If one is wrong about this particular question, however, it will be too late to do anything about it once one finds out for sure, i.e., death.

I'm sure this line of reasoning is not unfamiliar. Either Balzac or Zola said the same.

A little research can really go a long way. Go out there and find out for yourself what acknowledged geniuses decided, and not just the atheists. How about examining those who didn't decide against God?

They should have their say so, as well, since intelligence is the first thing atheists like to insult in someone who has the courage of their convictions.

If that were true, no scientists, no educated people would believe in God, and that is simply not the case.

Don't be afraid to check your beliefs. If they can't stand up to some focused and thoughtful questioning, they may not be strong enough to base your future on.

That's something that deserves checking out, don't you think?

Happy discovery, friends and especially, the OP.



posted on Jun, 8 2010 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by Copperflower


Awake, I am not here to defend things that are not based in love, I am not here to respond to the word "wicked" in reference to homosexuality unless we bring all sin into it, which I, as a Christian, have already faced and face daily

So homosexuality is not a sin? If your scripture is the "word of God" and you are bound to its legislation how can you just pick and choose the bits you like? Its like you guys side-step everytime you realise it was wrong "slavery", "genocide" all things conveyed in Genesis and other scriptures, do you think this is ok?. If you doubt anything that you god claims how you call yourself a true follower and believer in that god? Its rediculous in MY OPINION.

Of course one doesn't need to have a spiritual life to do good things, silly, but people do fight to the death for the right to have one...

The fact is: They do, and its in the name of their specific religion, take away the silly irrational belief you won't have someone killed in the name of a metaphysical being and his/her/it's desires. And listen, i'm not saying people don't kill who don't believe in god, but one less reason to kill people is a good thing, take away god and you've got exactly that. Don't try and brush that one off.

Which is so ironic, given that I was very sad about not being taken to church by my parents as a child, and that finally stopped mattering as God helped me to understand them as human beings, not just people to blame.

Again, as i've said before, what you have done in the name of something you believe is a divine being, i can do it without. I don't blame people, i rationlise and i reason, i think about action and consequence.

Furthermore, I have an IQ formally documented at 129, at age 11, and informally as high as the 140's. I would know if I was in slavery....lol.

I find this an amusing portrayal of arrogance that you had to make people aware of your intelligence instead of demonstrating it. Besides, are you not bound to your god's will and your gods words in the scripture, for where else did you learn to lead your life by. What you should do, what you can't do and all to please 1 god that you can't prove exists, that's slavery, you are completely servile to your "god's" or your "master's" will" and his desires.

It turned out He was listening, and made me so surprised with His ways, His gentleness, His unending patience, and most of all His amazing ways of letting me know He was there for me.

Please do enlighten us all further of what you mean here? Its uncomprehendable to those of us who have not experienced this or otherwise submitted to god, explain how "HE" was patient" explain what ways of letting you know "HE" was there? People in biblical times thought volcanos erupting were punishment from god, we later learned we live on a heating and cooling planet that causes these types of things.

I'd love to hear your results? If you're willing...but know this, He sets people free.

You're already free, it's called FREE choice, and i choose not to believe in something that can't be proved. Truth and reality my friend, someone has just as much right to believe in fairies as what you claim at the end of the day, despite what good things may come of it or not. Like i said though, im not asking you to convert, i'm telling you why i think theism is retarded.

Now let see this 129 IQ roll...




[edit on 8/6/10 by awake_and_aware]



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 08:10 AM
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Originally posted by humanfiredemon

recent thing that has come to my attention that i think is still happening around the country. the priests molesting the alter boys-- i bring this up because they are suposedly the embisarys of god, so thus god must like little boys!-- would answer the age old question, "why, why god did you take him he was so young and innocent"-- perhaps i went too far on that last one so i will go on to another interesting thing i noted.


These men are not Christians if they are acting in such a way. Christians are those who follow the teachings of Jesus. Molesting little boys is wrong and those offenders should be punished appropriately. Those in the church should shun such wicked men and have no association with them what-so-ever. With that being said, men still make mistakes, but the corruptness of these men is not a fair reflection of the perfection of God.

Yes, you did go to far with the last one.



why did it take 6 days to create the earth, what about the rest of the universe- lets see there are trillions of planets in the universe, each one takes 6 or so days depending on the intericisies, so 6x 1000000000000= 6000000000000 days. and 6000000000000/ 360= 16666666666.66666666666667 years. that is quite a bit of work plus add a day for rest. does he really have time to be listening to any prayers on our puney little planet. he should be out there creating more planets- especally sense the universe is constantly expanding.


Well, generally speaking it is accepted among Christians that Earth is the only planet created with life on it. The rest of the universe was created before Earth and falls into the very first verse of the Bible.

"In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth. The Heavens would include pretty much everything "not earth." There was not special time put into creating these other planets. Earth is the only one that took 6 days. Why six days and not 8, 27, or 4,834,906 days? Because that is how God decided to do it. That's about as good an answer as you'll find I would think. Even if He is still creating planets every day, since He is all powerful He would be able to listen to every prayer regardless.



also why do we all pray to him on his day off, one would think that it would be politer to pray to him on a day that he is actually working! the 7th day is when he is taking his little nap and resting in between building new planets.
and also why does god need to rest? he is all powerfull creating a planet shouldnt be that hard for a being with no weeknesses. it just doesnt seem right!


When the Bible speaks of God resting, it is simply a way of saying that He stopped His work of creation. He was not tired or in need of rest, He simply stopped working. There is nothing to suggest that God has ever rested again since that first Sabbath day of rest. He is always watching over His creation.

We don't only pray on Sunday's, at least we shouldn't. I pray every day multiple times a day. Most Christians I know pray at least three times a day as they say thanks for their food.

Sunday isn't the Sabbath day anyway, as it is actually the first day and not the 7th. Saturday is still the Sabbath, and so even if God was taking a rest every 7th day, we still wouldnt be bugging Him on His day off. We worship on Sunday's now because the early church just started meeting on the first day of the week.

Hope that helps.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware

Firstly, you have to prove the existence of god before you ask someone if he/she believes they have been let down by a said being.


Creation proves the existence of God, or at least a power higher than ourselves. It may not prove a specific God over another, though God's characteristics can be seen in creation. Atheists just refuse to accept the physical evidence of a higher power. Science has been unable to come up with any reasonable explanation for how such a diverse and magnificent planet came to be.



Theists accept, they do not question. And it's a bit suspect that they need god for morality...as if without god, they would be out raping, stealing and lying because they hadn't read the 10 commandments, pah. Spare me this foolish nonsense. If you wish to be servile to a man-made devine being then feel free, but i hope a lot more people wake up from this idiocy


I believe in God and I question thing all the time. That sounds like a pretty naive blanket statement to me.

Yes, we need God for morality. Not because we personally need somebody to tell us what is right and wrong, but because there are people who believe evil things to be good. Some wicked people see nothing wrong with their actions, but if they think it is a good thing, who is to say they are wrong? Another person? A government? No person should have the absolute authority of deciding what is right or wrong, because they are imperfect as well and would fail under their own laws.

God is perfect, and His law is perfect. Who can refute Him?

Keep ranting about people waking up from the idiocy of faith in God. I'll keep praying that people wake up from the idiocy of believing that we evolved from mushrooms, monkeys, or whatever thing science has recently decided is the new truth.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 08:43 AM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
Question to Copperflower:

Do you think the crusaders felt remorse or guilt when they killed so many people in the name of their god, as god's will?


I know it wasn't aimed at me but whenever I see the crusades pop up, I feel like a history lesson is long over due.

The crusades were NOT just Christians fighting Muslims because they disagreed. It was every nation banding together to take back the land that the Muslims stole from them hundreds of years before. They wanted their property back and they wanted revenge for the innocent lives that the Muslims slaughtered.

Christians joined the fight, and corrupt leaders within the church enlisted more soldiers by claiming heresies that spoke of forgiveness coming by means of killing the Muslims. They did this because at this point the Catholic Church was already corrupt and making money by selling "indulgences" that hastened your trip through purgatory. People didn't have the money to pay their way out of temporary Hell, so they decided to kill the invaders as payment instead. it was a sales pitch to recruit more soldiers and it was made by evil men. Not true Christians.

Either way, it was more about taking back their land than it was about the religion. Religion just gets emphasized because everybody has to have ammo against those terrible Christians since they don't do anything very troubling in this day and age.

Discredit the religion based on misunderstandings of past events lead by men who were far from understanding the very purpose of the faith.... Good job.



This ammount of tyranny cannot go on, especially under the name of your specific god. This is why it is enslavement of the mind. At least in North Korea you can get out the corrupt dictatorship at death, but it Christianity you are endamned after death, that is truely truely slavery of the mind.


Most of us look at the creation of a new Heaven and Earth as being real and total freedom. Do you know what the law is? Love God and Love your neighbor. How restricting is that? I can't do anything that harms those around me. Sure sounds like an oppressive dictatorship.



We still have this nonsense going on in the east, people blowing each others Mosque's up in the name of their specific god, because their god only wanted people to follow him, truely awful.


Yes, the Qur'an teaches that Muslims should kill those who don't believe exactly like they do and stone those who turn away from their faith or don't obey everything exactly as it is written. Don't confuse the violence that the Qur'an teaches and the Muslims practice for what scripture teaches very clearly. To love people.

*Yes, I know not all Muslims have violent intentions, but those closely obeying what the Qur'an teaches are the ones killing each other. Fundamental Islam is violent. Christianity is not. *

Instead of comparing the actions of people, since we rarely actually obey what we claim to be following, it would be best for you to see what the different faiths actually teach and then compare them to your ideas of what we believe in. People have a tendency to distort things even when they dont intend to.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware

I don't doubt that there are good things in your religion, I don't doubt you are a fairly morale person...but you have a little further to go before you prove that religion is a good thing.

For example,

name anything a religious person can do for civilisation that someone of secular values (i.e. ME) can't do?


Who or what has the authority to determine secular values? Who gets the final say so on what is right and wrong?

Religion places the ultimate authority in the hands of the only one worthy and capable of wielding it, God.



The thing is, in religion you can do wikid things, like boycott homosexuality, claim you am more righteous than someone, because it is written in scripture, you could propose irrational things like condoms are evil and such like and you could also kill in the name of divine being because you thought that was right and what your god wanted.

Doing anything under the belief that it was instructed by a cosmic overlord is just insanity at its best. See thats the thing, a religious person can do evil things and claim them as good, through their SPECIFIC god's will.


Who decided that boycotting/protesting homosexuality was wicked? Religion does allow that, because homosexuality is sinful. I don't think protesting the issue is helping or even the correct way to handle the situation, but sin is sin. I don't think condoms are evil. I understand the logic but I don't agree with it.

Any person who does something because they believe god told them, but knows that the thing they were told to do is in direct contradiction to the written word of God (Bible) needs to pray and seriously contemplate the instruction they received. Personally, I think demons and such play tricks "in the name of God" on people all the time. God's law is to love Him and love people.



This is Wrong. this is slavery of the mind. Heaven and Hell is slavery of the mind. and fear-mongering at its worst, and its heart-warming to know that they are teaching less of it too our future generations in education. and that the USA separates church from state. shame mine's still ruled by the Church of England, formed by a corrupt king proposing new legislations, that "god" had proposed.


I agree... kinda.
The government should keep its paws off religion. They only ever mess things up anyway. The only time a theocracy will work is when Christ returns to set up His kingdom. Government should worry about the protection of the people and leave everything else to the people.

The constitution never actually said anything about separating the church and state, only that the state shall not endorse or promote any one religion. That does not mean in any way that religious things cannot be involved with the state. Since the government is taking over everything, it seems like religion won't be allowed anywhere anymore soon enough.

Is telling a person that they will go to jail or get the death sentence for killing people fear-mongering? Seems to me like it is a fair and even appreciated warning of the consequences of bad decisions and actions. I would want a warning that an action was going to result in harm to myself in the form of a punishment. Telling others of the punishment of Hell is just that. More severe, but similar none-the-less.



Just be a good person, believe in truth and reality and live a good life, don't be a servant to a fictional being, you're not going to hell, but just learn to be moral, empathetic, loving, logical, forgiving, rational.


So what happens when you do die? What was the point of living?
I have a lot more I'd like to say to your other posts, but I need to get back to work. Later.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 09:19 AM
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Originally posted by Dragonelle
Any Religion organized or not is to control the masses. It is a CONTROL. Those in power want nice little dutiful subjects. Any one subscribing to such should rethink things.


Ummm...

I'm a leader in the church and I don't have anyone obeying my every whim. I encourage people to think for themselves and even to challenge what I teach so that they will study and make their faith their own. I don't want people following me, I want to point them to Christ.

Satanism is a religion and it promotes being your own god and not answering to any authority but your own. How is that control?

Many religions don't have a single person in charge, it's up to the individual to decide things for themselves.

Don't make such large, blanket statements. They always have an exception. Sometimes they are just plain wrong. It makes you look naive at best.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by Mykahel
 


Where do i begin, the ammount of bias statements, false evidence, false history and the sheer DENIAL of this user is just incredible.


Creation proves the existence of God, or at least a power higher than ourselves. It may not prove a specific God over another, though God's characteristics can be seen in creation. Atheists just refuse to accept the physical evidence of a higher power. Science has been unable to come up with any reasonable explanation for how such a diverse and magnificent planet came to be.


Please stop talking dribble, creation does not prove the existence of a god, maybe a power higher than ourselves, but we kno not what that power is, Science has not discovered it or worked it out yet. Yes the planet is magnificent and you can quote all the good things and miss the bad things as you religious people ALWAYS do. Science has not explained it as there is no evidence for it, its purely metaphysical, God would have to control every "magnificent" or unmagnificent planet if that was the case, and planets blow up all the time, wtf, he or she or it is a pyro.


I believe in God and I question thing all the time. That sounds like a pretty naive blanket statement to me.


What do you question? His existence, his rules? The control that is required in order for you to be Holy in his eyes?


Yes, we need God for morality.


So your saying i am not a morale and ethically sound person because i don't believe in a story similar to Zeus?, the beleif in a divine metaphysical being that exists outside of this realm? I'll tell you: i have values, i have empathy, i have compassion and love, that statement is compeltely rediculous but i doubt you'll admit that.


Not because we personally need somebody to tell us what is right and wrong, but because there are people who believe evil things to be good.

Name some things i believe are good that are actually evil.... homosexuality, the equality between male and female, Not being eternally damned to torture if you don't believe in something you can't prove exists? Are you saying these things are evil? You are a horrible person if you do. These are all things that should exist out of love but are condemned in religious scriptures. Learn your own scriptures please.

You are the opposite you believe in good things which are truely truelly evil, you are against free speech and against love when its homosexual, if you truely believe in your god you will follow and believe all of his "words" or scriptures written by man (for us atheists)

If god is that forgiving, and if he does exists, im sure after death he will forgive me, forgive me as i couldn't bring myself to believe in something that could not be proved. If he is "all forgiving"

He will forigve as he knew i was a loving, caring person, but he can't blame me for something that is not obvious at all, i will even tell him "you did not make yourself obvious enough" and don't mention a blooming flower as proof of his existence for what about a termite that eats the anus of a sheep? He created that too surely.



who is to say they are wrong? Another person? A government?


You use your intelligience, empathy, is it RIGHT to kill a person on the colour of his skin? No, is it right to slander homosexuality and claim it is "sin"? no. Its called common sense and logic, action and consequence, . You use intellgience, morality and general human compassion, and we all have it without a made up story with rules to control the people.


God is perfect, and His law is perfect. Who can refute Him?


Prove he exists first and i will tell you whether he is perfect or not.

He or she or it is obviously not perfect as he had to send floods down to kill people because he had made a mess. And the bible is full of contridictions and hatred. But you guys only wanna talk about the loving stuff right? Because that makes it sound like its not controlling. like he only wants you to be "good" Well im a good person, thank you very much


Keep ranting about people waking up from the idiocy of faith in God. I'll keep praying that people wake up from the idiocy of believing that we evolved from mushrooms, monkeys, or whatever thing science has recently decided is the new truth.


This highlights your arrogance and stupidy, when did i say this? When did i mention any of my beliefs regarding evolution? a proven theory btw, And more stupidy on your behalf - Deists and theists can still believe in evolution AND GOD, this totally shows your stupidy. Science is truth and could not exist without it, (i.e. the world is Spherical not flat) people used maths and theory to work this out.

The religious people condemned Galleleo for that theory, learn your history, hippocrit.


I know it wasn't aimed at me but whenever I see the crusades pop up, I feel like a history lesson is long over due.


Look no one needs a history lesson, its going on now in Iran, people killing one another in the name of their god. Sunnys bombing the Shiats mosques etc. Take away god, and you take away killing in the name of. If you really want ME to give YOU a history lesson then i am moer than happy to show you a history of religion killing in the name of god, or injustice that religion inflicts upon people

Stop trying to condecend my viewpoints and make it look like you are more righteous. I am a morale person, and innately a person of love and care, the point is i don't need a fictional fear to convince me it is the right thing to do, i just know it.

People please read this guys posts carefully and think about whether he knows what he's talking about or not.

Its completely suspect that you can't be a good person without this overarching fear in your life, fear of eternal torture because you did not exactly follow rules that were written in a book.

Deists, i don't mind your belief in a god, because you don't claim you know what he wants or that you are endamned to hell if you don't follow a set of rules written by man.

Please more people step out and deny this guy the ignorance that he is spreading. We can all have love, show care, be morale, think about our actions without believing this in this nonsense. Again, deists, agnostics and gnostics i do not mind your viewpoints as you are not claiming to be more righteous.

[edit on 9/6/10 by awake_and_aware]



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 03:48 PM
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Mykahel please read my post carefully before make any more incorrect statements about history and evolution.

Other users: be wary of this user's statements, do your own research.

i also love this quote by Mykahel:-

"So what happens when you do die? What was the point of living?"

Life is what you make of it, You can be good, you can be bad, you have free choice and you should know which is the more rewarding in terms of self-respect......the meaning of life has often been a topic debated by many famous philosophers througout history.



[edit on 9/6/10 by awake_and_aware]



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 09:07 PM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware

Yes the planet is magnificent and you can quote all the good things and miss the bad things as you religious people ALWAYS do. Science has not explained it as there is no evidence for it, its purely metaphysical, God would have to control every "magnificent" or unmagnificent planet if that was the case, and planets blow up all the time, wtf, he or she or it is a pyro.


Well, my focus wasn't on the bad parts of creation. easily explained by the Bible since the world was perfect and became imperfect as a result of sin. As for other planets, why do they matter? If there is life on another planet that gets destroyed, yes there is an issue. As far as we know, God has only blessed this planet with life, and especially life created in His image. Why does it matter if a barren planet is destroyed?



What do you question? His existence, his rules? The control that is required in order for you to be Holy in his eyes?


I have questioned His existence and came to the conclusion that He does exist. I've also questioned about every doctrine that I was taught as a younger Christian and made different decisions on some of them. You say He requires control, I say it gives us the greatest freedom ever.



So your saying i am not a morale and ethically sound person because i don't believe in a story similar to Zeus?, the beleif in a divine metaphysical being that exists outside of this realm? I'll tell you: i have values, i have empathy, i have compassion and love, that statement is compeltely rediculous but i doubt you'll admit that.


That's not what I was saying at all and now you're just trying to twist my words. People can have morals and empathy, love and grace without God telling them they have to have those characteristics. I'm saying that God determines the absolutes.



Name some things i believe are good that are actually evil.... homosexuality, the equality between male and female,


Firstly, homosexuality has nothing to do with equality. Men and women are equal but different. High School Health class should have taught that part. Name something wrong that you think is good... Homosexuality.



Learn your own scriptures please.


I'm still learning, and will do so all my life. I am very familiar with much of it though, thank you.


You are the opposite you believe in good things which are truely truelly evil, you are against free speech and against love when its homosexual, if you truely believe in your god you will follow and believe all of his "words" or scriptures written by man (for us atheists)


Actually, its the secular world making it illegal for us to preach against things we believe are wrong and calling them hate crimes. I can play the "you hate freedom of speech" card as well. And yes, if it is God's word, I will believe it. So far I have not seen any of it to be false.



If god is that forgiving, and if he does exists, im sure after death he will forgive me, forgive me as i couldn't bring myself to believe in something that could not be proved. If he is "all forgiving"


God's mercy and grace are limitless, but you can still refuse something infinite and therefor not have it. You won't have forgiveness because you have refused it, not because it is unavailable.


He will forigve as he knew i was a loving, caring person, but he can't blame me for something that is not obvious at all, i will even tell him "you did not make yourself obvious enough"


It's not good enough. If the complexity and magnificence of creation wont convince you in combination with the prophecies recorded in scripture, not even a ghost could change your mind. You'd write it off as one thing or another anyway.



You use your intelligience, empathy, is it RIGHT to kill a person on the colour of his skin? No, is it right to slander homosexuality and claim it is "sin"? no. Its called common sense and logic, action and consequence, . You use intellgience, morality and general human compassion, and we all have it without a made up story with rules to control the people.


So, base right and wrong off of intelligence and logic? That's the kind of thinking that gets you a holocaust as you kill all of the weak and elderly who can't contribute to society. Use logic to determine what should instead be decided by ultimate authority and the heart.



He or she or it is obviously not perfect as he had to send floods down to kill people because he had made a mess. And the bible is full of contridictions and hatred. But you guys only wanna talk about the loving stuff right?


His creation was perfect. We were the ones that screwed it up. If you mean perfect without flaw, He would have had to take away free will. He preferred to have an actually loving relationship with us though.



This highlights your arrogance and stupidy, when did i say this? When did i mention any of my beliefs regarding evolution? a proven theory btw, And more stupidy on your behalf - Deists and theists can still believe in evolution AND GOD, this totally shows your stupidy. Science is truth and could not exist without it, (i.e. the world is Spherical not flat) people used maths and theory to work this out.


Please stop calling me stupid. It isn't considerate. I only mention evolution because you love science so much and deny God. Science therefor has the answer and science says it was this or that depending on who is funding the research at the time.

There is no such thing as a proven theory... And no, it's not proven anyway, hence why it is still an ever-changing theory.

Science isn't truth. It's meant to examine and report truth, but has become an exercise in manipulating variables to achieve preconceived outcomes to support their theories. Scientific fact is changing all the time. Somebody is always discovering something new to negate a previous discovery. Just like the rotation of the planets and stars as you will now mention.

Anyway, never said that religious people were always right, just that God and His word are. There have been plenty of incorrect and heretical people claiming to be passing on God's word.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware

The religious people condemned Galleleo for that theory, learn your history, hippocrit.


A hypocrite is a person who claims to live one way and whose actions prove otherwise. They are actors. I don't see how this label applies to me in any way at this point.



Look no one needs a history lesson


Yes, apparently you do.


its going on now in Iran, people killing one another in the name of their god. Sunnys bombing the Shiats mosques etc. Take away god, and you take away killing in the name of. If you really want ME to give YOU a history lesson then i am moer than happy to show you a history of religion killing in the name of god, or injustice that religion inflicts upon people


I'm sure you could, and I can bet most of them would be Islamic attacks, the battles in the Old Testament, the Inquisition, or the Crusades. And while I can't explain all of it, I can give pretty good reasons and explanations.



Stop trying to condecend my viewpoints and make it look like you are more righteous. I am a morale person, and innately a person of love and care, the point is i don't need a fictional fear to convince me it is the right thing to do, i just know it.


Never said you weren't a moral person, but you aren't perfect and you havent accepted God's grace. I would be loving and compassionate as well, even if I didn't have respect for God's authority or even believe in Him. Love satisfies. Greed and selfishness are never quenched. The movie "Pirates of the Caribbean has a pretty good quote about that made by captain Barbosa as he explains his situation to Elizabeth early in the movie.



People please read this guys posts carefully and think about whether he knows what he's talking about or not.


Yes, please do, as you will find that I have done my research and you will expand your own knowledge by researching these things yourselves. If you just took me at my word and left whatever you believed before, it would show you had no backbone and believed anything that anyone told you. Being indecisive and changing your mind all the time is a very unstable way to live.


Its completely suspect that you can't be a good person without this overarching fear in your life, fear of eternal torture because you did not exactly follow rules that were written in a book.


Again, never said that. I said that we need an absolute authority for right and wrong because some people believe wrong things to be right. Some cultures would leave the elderly to die when they became to old to hunt. Logically, and culturally, it was the thing that worked best for them and they percieved it as being right. Who are you to tell them they are wrong? God does have that authority though.



Deists, i don't mind your belief in a god, because you don't claim you know what he wants or that you are endamned to hell if you don't follow a set of rules written by man.


It sounds to me like you do since you insult those who believe in a God that you dont except the proof for. Is it wrong to accept that we are convicted to Prison for breaking laws written by man? Why is is so far fetched to believe that breaking the laws written by God would not carry a heavy punishment?



Please more people step out and deny this guy the ignorance that he is spreading. We can all have love, show care, be morale, think about our actions without believing this in this nonsense. Again, deists, agnostics and gnostics i do not mind your viewpoi


Sounds like you are trying to rally the troops since more people agreeing with you makes you right. That worked real well for the blacks that got hung for being the minority. A result of the love and compassion in every man without acknowledging God.



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