another reason why i think religious people are being fooled

Hey everybody I'm back, sorry you havent been seeing my posts lately I got darksiders and have been preoccupied for a while. I also went to a friends house for a while to play modern warfare 2.
but have I got a good thread for you

Recently I was on xbox live and had the pleasure of overhearing an atheist vs christian argument.
Neither the atheist nor the christian seemed to show much intelligence but I have to give the atheist credit for naturally thinking outside the box and I have to deduct figurative points from the christian from believing things he had been conditioned to believe all his life.

I don't recall how the argument got started and for all the lack of intelligence the argument was somewhat enjoyable to listen to for there was a live audience filled with both believers and non-believers who once in a while threw their two cents in.

I recall somewhere lets begin here,
“its obvious god created everything”
“no its not”
“yes it is”
“whats the point of being god and creating everything?”
“because you get to watch life”
“my problem with Christianity is all the blood that's been spilled in the name of god”

the argument went something like that and I don't recall what the audience piped in other than woo! And boo! But I know they said a few important things.
And I don't recall what became of the argument but here's my two cents
“its obvious god created everything”
there's also tons of study that state just the opposite they have many well thought out, organized, and researched papers and files, and books, you just have one really old book written by ancient savages who killed each other for the slightest offense or ideological difference, two if you count the old testament as a separate book. Sorry if I offended you but I speak my mind, and your free to do so as well.

so it has been said that the point of being god is to watch life and enjoy it.
Then this god must be a very sick minded individual
life is a miserable thing, filled with heartache and despair
everyone you ever loved or known will eventually die off and leave you
nothing lasts forever a new car eventually gets rusty and doesn't work, a pretty dress eventually falls apart, a funny joke eventually gets old and no longer is funny, the list goes on feel free to share.
And yes I'm aware that the bible points this out somewhere in that old book it says something like materialistic things are junk. (ha! take that bible thumpers I beat you to it! lol)

but whats that? They might get to go to heaven and you might be able to see them again if your good?
Well lets say for the sake of this portion of the argument that Christianity is all true
and I know this arguments been made before, so what sue me.(please don't lol) lets say your perfectly good you serve god unquestionably all your life, your the shining example of a zealous myrmidon..............good for you, but say for some reason a favored loved one doesn't make it to heaven, someone you loved very much, a wife or husband, a beloved boyfriend or girlfriend, a child or a parent, the list goes on imagine the one closest to you, anyway they didn't make it, your in heaven but you know that down below your loved one is burning in eternal torment, how can heaven be paradise?

Whats that? God makes you forget? He takes all your worries away? No more pain no more sorrow? The memory of your loved one is rubbed away. But that kind of thing happens on earth too, only we call it brainwashing down here.

Perhaps you know the ten commandments? Perhaps you think they should be upheld by law?
I realize a few of those commandments are. However say your a brainwashed zealot myrmidon and want all ten commandments to be upheld by law and all their punishments to be law a well.
Take a look at the punishments for any of those commandments, their sick. And I hope you would change your mind. Most if not all of them require death by stoning and if you don't know what that is, its when when they bury you up to your head in sand or dirt and a crowd throws rocks at your face till you die. Its savage.

Don't even get me started on the crusades and various inquisitions.

Go ahead quote the bible it wont help you here I am a science minded individual and I imagine many future posters are as well. I don't see why people quote the bible to prove a point

Here comes the flame-war..................
bring it on!! I gotz titanium alloy armor!!!

also whats up with the Vatican sex scandal?
1.why is this news? Everyone knew this was happening since the church started
2.why haven't they just got rid of all those priests and replaced them?

And also why are people donating to people like Benny hin or however you spell it?
The man gets up on stage every night for all the world to see and asks for donations, but get this, hes wearing a very nice fancy outfit, yeah Its not obvious that he's a crook or anything
cough! cough! Jim bakker!

this was a bit of a rant but i feel also i thought stimulating post
Any thoughts?

[edit on 25-5-2010 by ashanu90]

[edit on 25-5-2010 by ashanu90]

[edit on 25-5-2010 by ashanu90]

[edit on 25-5-2010 by ashanu90]

reply to post by ashanu90


Wow, wait, someone playing Modern Warfare 2 actually had an argument that didn't devolve into Mom jokes or racism after about 10 seconds? When I play the bickering usually falls apart into 5th grade level insults and swearing...

On some level I can understand the Christian argument because I used to be a Christian and I understand how deeply the indoctrination digs in. Especially for fundamentalists the brainwashing can be so deep as to be almost unbeatable. Its taken me years and years to break out of it.

But for someone who isn't indoctrinated into that belief system the BS they discover when they study it is astoundingly obvious. I mean there are passages in the Bible saying if you work on a Sunday or talk back to your parents you should be killed. God damns whole hosts of people to an infinite hell for only one lifetime worth of sins for sins as simple as lying.

The issue is that there are atheists who don't do much thinking in reaching that decision, they never even take the time to read the Bible or other religious texts or study the beliefs they are rejecting. I think that whether you have belief or lack belief you should have an understanding of what it is you believe or lack belief in (if that makes sense).

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by ashanu90

 

Wow, wait, someone playing Modern Warfare 2 actually had an argument that didn't devolve into Mom jokes or racism after about 10 seconds? When I play the bickering usually falls apart into 5th grade level insults and swearing...

On some level I can understand the Christian argument because I used to be a Christian and I understand how deeply the indoctrination digs in. Especially for fundamentalists the brainwashing can be so deep as to be almost unbeatable. Its taken me years and years to break out of it.

But for someone who isn't indoctrinated into that belief system the BS they discover when they study it is astoundingly obvious. I mean there are passages in the Bible saying if you work on a Sunday or talk back to your parents you should be killed. God damns whole hosts of people to an infinite hell for only one lifetime worth of sins for sins as simple as lying.

The issue is that there are atheists who don't do much thinking in reaching that decision, they never even take the time to read the Bible or other religious texts or study the beliefs they are rejecting. I think that whether you have belief or lack belief you should have an understanding of what it is you believe or lack belief in (if that makes sense).

\yeah its usualy petty insults but there are diamonds in the rough, note however this diamond wasnt very shiny lol.
i understand what you mean about understanding what your rejecting, i feel i know alot more about the bible than most christians do. ive read some of those passages about death for ridicoulous things
god damnit!
blasphemer! stone him!!!!!

and most christians dont seem to follow their religion very well, i predict that some future christian posters will be petty, childish, and use many swears, whats up with that?


[edit on 25-5-2010 by ashanu90]

reply to post by ashanu90


Star and flag for you!

I am definately a believer that all religion is a comforting lie at best, and at it's worst a heinous crime against humanity, and i often wonder how people can believe such things so easily.

Got to say though that your point about Heaven not being a paradise if someone you love doesn't make it is absolutely inspired!...

Originally posted by uptheirons!
reply to post by ashanu90

 

Star and flag for you!

I am definately a believer that all religion is a comforting lie at best, and at it's worst a heinous crime against humanity, and i often wonder how people can believe such things so easily.

Got to say though that your point about Heaven not being a paradise if someone you love doesn't make it is absolutely inspired!...

thanks i was pondering quite a bit lateley and the idea just came to me
it seems the best ideas come after you take a long break

reply to post by uptheirons!




Here's a video on if Atheists went to heaven, some of the complaints they come up with are great.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


lol!!!! that video was hilarious
however you should don your anti flamewar armor.......
lol

have you ever watched ancient aliens? I would recommend ... it gives you another perspective and a very good one:

THEY LIVED IN ANOTHER CULTURE!!

lets say everything written on these ancient books are TRUE
1 - anyone can have their own interpretation, simply because its a book, a text, its not obvious

2 - well, its another culture, if they saw something in the sky, they called it ANGEL, if we see something in the sky, we call it UFO ...

I wont get into more details, I dont have any interest in trying to convert people because I dont follow any type of religion. If you want to use your brain and explore scientific possibilities, go ahead, I support it ... otherwise, why botter living if you can go to 101 woman when you die ... LOL

reply to post by Faiol


you know what maybe i will watch ancient aliens what time and channel?

all organized religion are lies. they're worshiping the wrong god. They are worshiping the Anunnaki instead. I believe the god with the big G is just doing this right now to us:







[edit on 25-5-2010 by dragnet53]

Originally posted by dragnet53
all organized religion are lies. they're worshiping the wrong god. They are worshiping the Anunnaki instead. I believe the god with the big G is just doing this right now to us:







[edit on 25-5-2010 by dragnet53]

lol!!! facepalm
so humor me if the god christians and muslims and jews and everyone else is worshipping are really the "annunaki" who's the real G-man? also whats he like?
will he send you to eternal hell for not worshipping him?

reply to post by ashanu90


i view the human body as a temporary encounter suit. it's about as real as a dollar bill. you can touch it, feel it, see it, use it. it brings you pain and pleasure and necessities. but it's extremely temporary, just like the animal flesh that is currently housing your real body.

so while there are endless arguments over whether this verse or that interpretation is correct, when alls said and done, i still maintain the belief that we are infinite spirits encountering a temporary existence.



www.youtube.com...

[edit on 25-5-2010 by undo]

reply to post by undo


though i rele dont believe in the spiritual i do find that bit of philosophy interesting, ts thought invoking
and i never did notice what gandalf was saying in that scene it was always difficult to hear

star for you imma watch lord of the rings tonight i gotz the whole trilogy

Really gotta ask this question....
Why are they being fooled?

Lets be honest, its not as if any modern mainstream faith demands that much control out of its followers.
Religion is, at worst an operating model with flawed premises.
BUT its central tennant is to help people out and not be a douche.

Admitedly people shouldn't need a religion to stop them from acting like dicks, but clearly it doesnt work that way in practice.
In the same way that Democracy DOESN'T need to big parties, but the majority of the population is too stupid to be able to make a decision without the lense of political parties to view the issues through.

And that's my central, poorly explained point.
Religion may be about control, but thats all society is too.
Atheists getting all holier than thou and harping on about things like this doesn't convert anyone, in the same way that religious people doing the same don't.
Let people view the world through whatever set of tinted glasses they like, thats what I say.
As McKenna say's, society is not your friend.

However, if you go further,, and try and claim that there is no genuine religious, or mystical experiance to be had in the world, you've lived a sheltered life, and science actually disagrees with you.
Take some better drugs and you'll realise

Oh and people who use that tired, yawn inducing arguament that they dont like religion because of the crusades and stuff really need to pull they're heads out of their asses.
How many people were killed in the name of the scientific fate of eugenics?
People always have and always will commit attrocities, the excuse is given is very rarely that actual reason (like WMD's in countries with lots of oil).
Plenty of better reasons not to like organised religion without scraping the barrel for that one.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


Haha the video is hilarious even if someone like me would consider it "blasphemy." I do enjoy satire even if it's directed at me. I can't wait for 100,000 years of volleyball followed by 50,000 years of Monopoly!!

I guess I would have to agree that God is an atheist unless He believes in himself then I guess that makes him a narcissist?

heres another thing, it is said that god knows you before your even born, that he knows the number of every hair on your head, in short he is all knowing, or omnipotent
so why is it that he creates people like me, knowing full well i will reject the bible and become an athiest and then be sent to hell? what exactly is the point of creating people like me? amusement?obstacles to make challenges for true believers? if so i am just being used, so if true can you really claim that god is a kind and fair being?
bollocks!

and another thing on omnipotence, its said that god created everything, you, me, heaven and hell, and of course the devil, satan/beelezebub whatever you want to call him/her. that being said anyone who claims belief in this must also believe that god created evil, and being omnipotent knew full well what he was doing. so answer me this, how can god be good and create evil on purpose?

i remember once when i was little i asked about why the dinosaurs had all died and my mom, being a christian said, god sometimes makes mistakes, they didnt worship them so he got rid of them...with an asteroid. is this the same god people are talking about when they talk about a benvolient, merciful, just, loving and, understanding god???????

also a question for christians, do you believe that animals go to heaven? if so, did the dinosaurs go to heaven or hell, if anywhere at all?

Originally posted by novastrike81
reply to post by Titen-Sxull

 

Haha the video is hilarious even if someone like me would consider it "blasphemy." I do enjoy satire even if it's directed at me. I can't wait for 100,000 years of volleyball followed by 50,000 years of Monopoly!!

I guess I would have to agree that God is an atheist unless He believes in himself then I guess that makes him a narcissist?

lol i might be able to handle 100,000 years of volleyball but 50,000 years of monopoly is just hell, i can bareley stand a half hour before i get frustrated
"whered you get those pink 50's you cheating whore?!?!?!!?!?! lol

heres another question for believers, you believe in the immortality of the soul right? and the final battle between heaven and hell(am i the only one who thinks this is like ragnarock?)
angels and demons will fight and kill each other, however their said to be immortal.
how can anyone win???

also why does the apocalypse sound like norse ragnarock, its said there apocalypse: there will be an epic battle in the end between heaven and hell
ragnorock: there will be an epic battle between the gods an the giants

apocalypse: it is known god will win with the help of angels and people who have gone to heaven(saints)
ragnorock: the good gods will win with the help of their einherjar (glorious dead) followers
if the outcome is known whats the point of having this epic battle anyway?
aside from the whole immortality thing this a pretty obvuious flaw

apocalypse:the world will be created new
ragnorock:the world will be created new

any thoughts? answers? dancing bannanas?

Originally posted by ashanu90
heres another thing, it is said that god knows you before your even born, that he knows the number of every hair on your head, in short he is all knowing, or omnipotent
so why is it that he creates people like me, knowing full well i will reject the bible and become an athiest and then be sent to hell? what exactly is the point of creating people like me? amusement?obstacles to make challenges for true believers? if so i am just being used, so if true can you really claim that god is a kind and fair being?
bollocks!

You were created with free will to choose yourself. If God wanted to create robots He would have done so. I don't force my children to love me, I think it's something they should decide for themselves. I express my love for them and hopefully, in return, they will love me in return.

and another thing on omnipotence, its said that god created everything, you, me, heaven and hell, and of course the devil, satan/beelezebub whatever you want to call him/her. that being said anyone who claims belief in this must also believe that god created evil, and being omnipotent knew full well what he was doing. so answer me this, how can god be good and create evil on purpose?

God knew that in a life with choice there would be evil; again if he didn't want evil he would have created robots. Philosopher Alvin Plantinga writes,

"An all loving, all powerful, all knowing Being could permit as much evil as He pleased without forfeiting His claim to being all loving, so long as for every evil state of affairs He permits there is an accompanying greater good".

Evil serves the limited purpose of establishing real love relationships between creation and the Creator, and evil will be done away with after that purpose is achieved.

i remember once when i was little i asked about why the dinosaurs had all died and my mom, being a christian said, god sometimes makes mistakes, they didnt worship them so he got rid of them...with an asteroid. is this the same god people are talking about when they talk about a benvolient, merciful, just, loving and, understanding god???????

also a question for christians, do you believe that animals go to heaven? if so, did the dinosaurs go to heaven or hell, if anywhere at all?

God prohibited the killing of man ("You shall not murder," Exodus 20:13) but he placed no such restriction on the killing of animals. Man is made in God’s image, so man must not kill one of his own kind. Animals, it would seem, are different from man. If they do have a "soul" that survives death, it is different from man’s. It does not need redemption. Christ died to save the souls of human beings, not animals.

Most theologians are stubborn and say animals don't have souls because God created man to govern over all things. However, in Revelation, it says that when God creates the New Heaven and New Earth that there will be animals, horses were named, so I would make a safe assumption that there will be animals in heaven.

I have to disagree with your mom on the fact that dinosaurs not worshipping God was the reason they died. Can you imagine animals building altars and making sacrifices to God? I think it would be a funny site to see.

Right, so once again we come to the main arguament of 90% of all athiests.
You're rebelling against you parents

Really would like to try this arguament with someone who'd actually read some religious texts, but every time its someone who was raised catholic as a child, rebelled in their teens and has been an athiest ever since.
They haven't read anything else, they don't care about anything else.
You can't argue with them because they don't have any sort of grasp of anything beside the discarded religion of their parents or school... really distressing in way, read the upanishads, maybe the book of zohar, hell anything which isnt the bible, it'd make these generic topics alot more interesting!