warning this can offend law abiding citizens - Which I'm not one of.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan


It is a school related activity, outside of the school, with paid admission that is voluntary, where adults are the primary audience.

It is a school event, on school grounds, where I would venture to guess students at least equalled adults in numbers.

reply to post by endisnighe


What a strange and disconnected rant entirely unrelated to the discussion concerning church and state. I don't think you actually responded to my post at all.

I am not for big government.

I am not for "big" religion either.

I am for "the people" and the seperation of church and state...just like our founding father's intended it.

In England ...the country from which we primarily fled...the Church WAS the state.

Ditto with ROME...and most dictatorships...

We are a secular nation for a reason.

God is great!!! So is Allah!!! Buhda etc ... If you want to preach about it, do it on your own time, not to our children on public school grounds.

What a silly attempt at derailment and an utterly nonsense rant.

[edit on 27-5-2010 by maybereal11]

reply to post by maybereal11


Right on. I find it really interesting that most of the people that are against the separation of church and state are also against big government. Hello McFly! That's what our forefathers wanted to create. A government that does not establish any religion as part of the state. Allowing the state to assume a particular religion gives the government tons of power with the potential to be VERY, VERY big government.

oh hey op what the hell COACH OUT OF LINE!!! or im just ignorant I guess there aren't many other religions out there other than christianity in the united states sooo thinking there's buddhists jewish ppl muslims atheists ect... that are having a bad day and really don't want to hear some crazy coach go about how he can't PUSH his god on everyone so he goes about talking about things children shouldn't know or hear over a huge intercome REAL SMART... btw 2nd post... your agnostic oh one of those agnostics ignorant to the fact there are other religions out there?!?!?!?! hmmmm I think this site is getting full of people trying to mix the truth up instead of finding it and promoting/defending their religions when really we should all be accepting of ALL relgion EVEN the christians... but if you are to encroach upon another religion they should have the right to fend you off or ask, HEY I respect you please respect me and leave us alone. Do not critisize us as we do not critisize you live in your church worship your god leave us to ours.

people are selfish let alone self righteous... get a grip. Btw i'm not atheist but i'm not christian or any other religion.

reply to post by Reflection


A principal praying does not, in any remote way, equate to Congress making a law.

Originally posted by maybereal11

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan


It is a school related activity, outside of the school, with paid admission that is voluntary, where adults are the primary audience.

It is a school event, on school grounds, where I would venture to guess students at least equalled adults in numbers.

you know all of that to be true?

is it a school event if the school doesn't pay?

What if the stadium isn't owned by the school? Out here in West Texas we have a lot of "sports complex's" that the schools use, along with pro teams and anyone else with the money and need for such a venue.

And, like i said, here in West Texas the adults outnumber the students by a very, very large margin. For example, look at the enrollment of Odessa Permian vs ticket sales.

Students get in free. You cannot have a self sufficient program selling 5 dollar tickets, and then letting half the people in for free. You have to have far more paying customers than freeloaders.

The logic behind your post does not follow for me, based on my own experiences. Like i said, i have already covered all this. Read the thread. i started participating on page 2.

Originally posted by Reflection
reply to post by maybereal11

 

Right on. I find it really interesting that most of the people that are against the separation of church and state are also against big government. Hello McFly! That's what our forefathers wanted to create. A government that does not establish any religion as part of the state. Allowing the state to assume a particular religion gives the government tons of power with the potential to be VERY, VERY big government.

not only this:

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
reply to post by Reflection

 

A principal praying does not, in any remote way, equate to Congress making a law.

but i would also ask if anyone is establishing any religion, specifically, by referring to "God". God is not a Christian term. It is an English term. The use of the word "God" and "Prayer" cannot be confined solely to that one belief system.

The whole concept of a principle supporting ANY religion leading to him asserting a specific religion is patently false. As well, the assumption that this will lead to something more nefarious is a "Slippery Slope Fallacy", of which our own Supreme Court took part in.

To get REALLY technical, the supreme court in 1962 was not a legally seated court and had no right to render legal opinion (see Protoplasmic Travellers threads for more info on this).

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


Like I said, he is assuming his Christian religion as established with in the state before a law was even in place...which we all know will never happen because it's against the first amendment. Assuming a religion as established with in the state before a law is in place, is actually worse than waiting for a law to be passed to allow for it. Why does the first amendment even say that congress shall make no law establishing religion if the state just takes the liberty to assume it with out a law. Makes not sense. That's exactly why the separation of church and state makes perfect sense.

reply to post by nenothtu


Are you apologizing to me? If so, no need to. I wasn't upset. Just clearing the air.

HE SPECIFICALLY REFERS TO JESUS CHRIST.... DURRRR im pretty sure he doesn't exist in buddhism... don't try and say this man was making a genralized "god"/"Prayer" suggestion otherwize... it'd just be followed by a GREAT SILENCE. he wouldn't mention jesus christ either.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Okay, but people don't go to a football game to take part in religious prayer and political speeches. There's nothing wrong with public prayer as long as it's not in a venue that people attend without the expectation of being caught up in one.

Like I said, Jesus made public speeches and people were invited to listen or they could ignore it. But he didn't go into places where people would be forced to listen to him preach the gospel or else leave and miss out on what they were originally there for that had nothing to do with religion.

reply to post by Anthriel


I fully and 100% agree with what you said (I think what I just said was redundant but only strengthens how much I agree with you). A moment of silence is perfectly acceptable. Then people can pray to whichever god they choose, in what ever manner they choose, and if you chose not to pray, then you would have been silent anyway had the prayer been out loud. It's a win win situation for everyone.

Originally posted by nunya13
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

Okay, but people don't go to a football game to take part in religious prayer and political speeches. There's nothing wrong with public prayer as long as it's not in a venue that people attend without the expectation of being caught up in one.

Like I said, Jesus made public speeches and people were invited to listen or they could ignore it. But he didn't go into places where people would be forced to listen to him preach the gospel or else leave and miss out on what they were originally there for that had nothing to do with religion.

Haven't been to many high school football games? Let me tell you what you can expect, at least in any that I have ever been to:

1. a prayer will open
2. the national anthem
3. the visitors alma mater
4. the homes alma mater


The rest is pretty mundane.

But, like any business, if you don't enjoy all of the above before the game, then show up late or don't but a ticket.

reply to post by Reflection



So because he prays he is assuming that Congress is going to make Christian the official religion?

LOL

You are grasping at straws

Is there no provision in American state education for schools to be self governing?

How empowered are parents in the running of their children's schools? Can parents debate, vote and set policy? Not through protest or legislation but rather through due process? What about the curriculum? Do American parents have any direct access to curriculum setting?

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Texans know our High School football. LOL.

We have a high school kid lead our prayer. I wonder how long that will last.

reply to post by toochaos4u


I wish I could give you a million stars, but my measly one will have to suffice. I wanted so badly to bring up these versus, but for some reason I did not.

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


It's absolutely him assuming the Christian religion as established as a state rep at a state event. If a state rep is preaching about Jesus over the intercom at a state event, it is the state assuming the Christian religion as established.

He's not assuming that congress is GOING to make Christianity the established religion of the state, he's assuming it already IS.


[edit on 27-5-2010 by Reflection]

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


The difference being that this thread is about debating this guys ranting at a high school football game. There's going to be rants here. A high school football game is not a place I go to to hear people rant about the injustices the think are being done to them.

This guy took the mic and ranted, over a loud speaker so that everyone could hear, about this and that. Was anyone given the chance to get up and contradict him? What do you think would have happened had someone taken the mic from him after he had his chance to speak and they said how they disagreed with him and "here's why"? I strongly suspect this would be an entirely different discussion we are having.

reply to post by Reflection


If he states that he believes that the sky is green, that means that he is assuming that Congress is going to make it sanctioned officially?


And praying does not equate to preaching.

Keep reaching.