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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by toochaos4u
The difference is that unlike Jesus, neither the principal nor the teams that attended this game were claiming Messianic legacy. Further, your disingenuous hypothetical attempts to frame the principal as one who prayed over a loud speaker, of which he did not, but this fact only gets in the way of your own agenda, doesn't it? And that agenda had nothing at all to do with spreading the Gospel did it? The silent moment you spoke of from your own personal experience is precisely what happened at this event, so exactly what is your problem with it?
I also went to a religious school, and was constantly in trouble with the Nuns, and even the Priests for questioning much of the New Testament, and was actually suspended for three days for suggesting that if we were expected to do what Jesus would do, we should all be Jews. I am grateful for the superior education I got in that school, and while I was a constant source of consternation for the administrators and teachers, I was also respected and well liked. I attended a private school that was as equally concerned with teaching young minds to think for themselves, as they were teaching Gospel, and my suspension for questioning a Priest that day, was not for questioning, but for my petulant attitude, and Father Finley spent the rest of my time at that school, encouraging my inquisitive nature and teaching me to do so in a respectful manner.
[edit on 26-5-2010 by Jean Paul Zodeaux]
Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by nenothtu
No? Then what was that garbage all about?
"Speaking for myself, this issue is about protection of free speech for everyone, and adherence to the Constitution as the touchstone of what's proper as it's written.
That protection extends to ALL citizens equally, regardless of their religion.
You've been defending a government worker for wanting to blast his religious convictions in a government capacity.
What do you not understand about government and it's role with religion? Maybe that's the issue, idk, but if we work together and work this out then perhaps we can come to an agreement on what a government worker can and can't do as a government worker.
Prayer at football games do not includes asking God to help a team win. It is used to ask Him to protect all involved.
Originally posted by nenothtu
Why, because I'm not wrong in this case, of course!
So I'm a 'liar' now? S'ok, I've been called worse, and I bet that's not hard to believe.
I already answered that, just above. I thought we were 'done' here, but we're still going to go in circles?
To my mind - and this is just my opinion mind you - but there is, in my mind, a pretty big difference between 'being honest' and performing tricks on command just to be kept busy.
It should be easy enough to confirm all by yourself. There's a little button at the bottom of each of your posts entitled 'thread'. Clicking on that will pop up all of your posts in this thread. It's not hard, and there are only 3 pages of your posts to wade through.
Going through them, and exercising the honesty we both value (whether you think I do or not, I DO), you will see that there are some quite vituperatively condescending comments there, directed primarily at christians,
Somewhat at me and a few others (and so not religiously motivated at all, eh?), but I really don't mind that.
I have pretty thick skin, and enough self confidence that you can't say much to get under that thick skin. I try to take it in the spirit of the debate.
I see... or maybe not....
"You people"? You aren't including ME in that, are you? Are we going to go there AGAIN?
No, really, I'm not fit to carry a christian's sandals.
Edit: trying to fix those damnable quote tags again!
[edit on 2010/5/26 by nenothtu]
Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
What is your point? If you read my post you would know this is precisely what I said. Are you attempting to misrepresent what I said?
Originally posted by guyopitz
I hate religion and the people that get all up in arms about it. God is a fairy tale and Jesus is a myth and I'm not a christian so If I was at public school and my idiot principle started ranting about this meaningless garbage, I would walk out. Go to hell and take your christ cult with you.
(Which is completely fine if the prayer service is randomized to all beliefs representative of the people of that school. It is public domain of the people so it should represent them all.)
(My beliefs in Jesus were never stated. I have great deal of respect for Jesus.)
(Which we do not)
(He certainly did change the religion or created another. Christianity is nothing like the Jewish faith. If you ask a Jewish person they will tell you that the majority of Christians do not understand the Old Testament portion at all. He also condemned the church on many occasions and I believe that is all he condemned. I'm sure he would do the same now if he were alive. I'm sure he would be proud over the past misdeeds in his name and the cheap novelty trinkets circulated under his banner. Would he support forced prayer service? )
(People can worship freely as always.How is it out of context when that is what the man specifically pointed out on how prayer should be done? Pharisees liked to make prayer loud as they do today as well.)
(One's freedom is another man's bondage.)
(Again you have no idea how I view Jesus because I never stated them. But, since you didn't ask I consider him a great teacher. Then by all means ask every student what their beliefs are and represent them all in the prayer services. If any parent objects let them fight with nerf rocks. The reason it was stopped in my old school was because it brought chaos. )
(If it has nothing to do with the law of the land then it should not be unconstitutional. The letter to the Danbury Baptists represents intent. Represent them all or represent none. Because one belief is primarily focused on it oppresses the minority of other beliefs so their beliefs are being stepped on. I would be more in tune with you if you specified that all beliefs should be taught in schools. Although this does take up classwork time.)
(Right schools are messed up and one of the reasons in SC is experimental education styles that phase in and out like the wind. Does bringing religion on board fix mismanagement and poor teaching styles?)
(His intent was to rant because he couldn't hold a Christian prayer service over a stupid game. I stated that I could expose my kids to my own belief system and let them decide. It is not the school's job. I thought left VS right was made up to divide people. Tyranny comes from many places not just the federal government. )
(Then how we see Jesus is not that much different. Nice to know there is some common ground. )
(Then how many prayer services were held at that school for other beliefs or non beliefs? Wiccans were denied a public charity benefit here because the Christians threatened to pull out. They were denied church status for years. They had their license pulled to acquire a parcel of a public national forest for service because the Xtians threatened boycott and lawsuit. There ya go religious suppression happens every day. I am not Wiccan though. )
Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by K J Gunderson
You have not just been snidely attacking religion, far worse you have been snidely attacking freedom and nenothtu's obvious efforts of actually quoting you only goes to show what a waste of time that is.
You think that all you have to do is call others a liar, and this will some how hide your own equivocations. That principal is protected by both a federal and state Constitution that say's he can say whatever the hell he wants over the PA, as long as he isn't causing anyone harm, and there is no evidence that his comments caused anyone harm.