It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Polish Air Disaster 2010 - A Review

page: 1
8

log in

join
share:

posted on May, 25 2010 @ 11:17 AM
link   
On 10 April 2010 a Tupolev Tu-154M aircraft of the Polish Air Force crashed near the city of Smolensk, Russia, killing all 96 people on board.

These included the Polish president Lech Kaczyński and his wife, the chief of the Polish General Staff and other senior Polish military officers, the president of the National Bank of Poland, Poland's deputy foreign minister, Polish government officials, 12 members of the Polish parliament, senior members of the Polish clergy, and relatives of victims of the Katyn massacre.

They were en route from Warsaw to attend an event marking the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre; the site of the Katyn massacre being approximately 19 kilometres (12 mi) west of Smolensk.

This was a catastrophy for the Polish people and a week of national mourning was declared.

While the majority of Polish people mourned the loss of so much of their political and military personnel there were others who began asking questions.

Speculation was further fueled when a controversial video was released showing the immediate aftermath of the crash. A video that supposedly showed survivors being murdered in cold blood - the conspiracy had begun.

The Pilot

Yahoo! News 10 April (headline) : Poland in shock, pilot error mooted in Kaczynski crash
Times of India 10 April (headline) : Pilot error eyed in Poland president's plane crash
New York Times 11 April (headline) : Polish Crash Inquiry Looks at Decision to Land Jet
Times (UK) 11 April (headline) : Polish president dies in plane crash after pilot ignored warning not to land
MSNBC 12 April (headline) : Pilot error in Polish plane crash? Investigators say no technical problems found
Canadian Broadcast Network 12 April (headline) : Pilot Error Cause of Polish Plane Crash?
National Public Radio (US) by Associated Press 12 April (headline) : Investigators Suggest Pilot Error Caused Polish Crash
Financial Times (UK) 12 April (headline) : Russia cites pilot error in Polish jet crash
Wall Street Journal 13 April (headline) : Polish Crash Probe Points to Human Error
Voice of Russia 15 April (headline) : Pilot error likeliest cause of Smolensk crash
Global TImes (China) 16 April (headline) : Pilot error deemed cause of Kaczynski plane crash.

The medias first reaction was to blame the pilot, citing that he was inexperienced and was unable to speak Russian (which would make conversing with the Russian Air Traffic Control difficult at best). However, Capt. Protasiuk, 36, had 2,937 hours of flight-time under his belt, according to his commanding officer, Lt. Col. Ryszard Raczynski, head of the 36th Special transport aviation regiment, in an article published 21 April by the Wall Street Journal. The Colonel went on to say, "He was very cool-headed and experienced." The WSJ further stated, "Capt. Protasiuk knew Smolensk Airport well, according to Col. Raczynski. On April 7 [three days before the fatal crash], Capt. Protasiuk flew as co-pilot on the flight that carried the Polish prime minister's delegation to Smolensk for an earlier Katyn commemoration." In another article, dated 13 April, the WSJ writes, "colleagues of the Polish pilot Captain Arkadiusz Protasiuk, interviewed in Polish daily Gazeta Wyborcza, said he spoke fluent Russian and was familiar with Smolensk airport."

So it seems that the pilot was more than capable. What next?

The Plane

Reuters 10 April (headline) : Polish plane crash highlights 'lamentable' fleet
Associated Press 10 April (first paragraph) : The crash of an aging Russian airliner ravaged the top levels of Poland's military, political and church elite Saturday
Christian Science Monitor, 11 April (headline) : Polish president plane crash: Why so many Tu-154 crashes?
National Public Radio (US) 12 April (headline) : Poles Question Why Delegation Used An Old Plane
Russia Today 13 April (headline) : Polish government planes old and shabby – mass media.

Once again these reports were proved to be false. Contrary to some reports of mechanical failure, the plane was in perfect condition, recently inspected and refurbished with new navigational and electronic equipment. The plane was equipped with TAWS (Terrain Awareness System) in addition to standard radar, so there is hardly likely it would clip a tree on the way down as the navigational alarm would have sounded.

As this article states, the plane was not to blame.
Source


Weather Conditions

It was reportedly a very foggy day in Smolensk - this being one of the main causes of the eventual crash. Although according to many eye witness testimonies this was indeed the case, weather reports seem to indicate otherwise.

According to Wikipedia 'Fog normally occurs at a relative humidity near 100%' and although it can form at less than 100% humidity it is generally agreed that a humidity level of at least 85-90% much be present for fog to form.



As that states, humidity was at a relatively low 60%, nowhere near the required 90%. Other reports such as this one state that humidity was at 72% and that there was indeed an occurence of fog.

I am by no means an expert on these matters and so if anyone can help me clear up these seemingly conflicting reports that would be great.


The Video

I'm sure many of you have seen this already but I couldn't not include it as it could be pivotal.




Polish authorities have now received reports from the Russian coroner's service presiding over the autopsies of the 96 bodies pulled from the doomed presidential plane that crashed over Smolensk on April 10.

Rzeczpospolita journalists got their hands on copies of three autopsy reports and find the time of death entered by the coroner of some curiosity.

According to the documents, the people died at 8:50 am. But the plane's black boxes reportedly stopped recording at 8:41 am and medical personnel didn't arrive at the crash site until after 9 am. This raises questions over how the 8:50 am time of death was determined.

Source: Warsaw Business Journal,
5th May 2010

Unconfirmed but very interesting.


Exchanged Lightbulbs


Pictures of Russian military and militiamen, who a few hours after the tragedy at the airport exchange Smolensk headlamps and light bulbs in lamps indicating the location of aircraft from the runway




Source

Could it be that the lights that sat at the end of the runway were tampered with before the accident and then replaced by conventional bulbs once the accident had occurred?


A simple question: Why?

Not only did Poland decline to be a victim of the bankster loan sharking operation, Poland’s central bank had the audacity to offer the IMF a loan to “help other countries overcome the effects of the global crisis,” the AFP reported on March 29, 2010.

Poland was the only member of the 27-nation European Union to have experienced growth in 2009 and the IMF forecast that its economy would expand by 2.75 percent this year and by 3.25 percent in 2011.

Poland’s zloty grew by 1.7 percent in 2009, a remarkable feat given that European Union countries contracted by an average of 4.1 percent and no other EU economy grew at all. “Poland avoided eastern Europe’s worst lending binges. Kaczynski frustrated some of his opponents by being in no rush to head towards the euro party,” the Daily Telegraph reports today.

Earlier this month, Czech Central Bank Vice Deputy Mojmir Hampl said the IMF fueled Eastern Europe’s crisis to create a situation that would compel regional states to request the help from the globalist loan sharking operation.
“He said that the institution, which offered emergency funds for Hungary, Lithuania, Ukraine and Romania, misinterpreted some data because they are looking for new clients as the leadership changed,” HotNews reported.

Indeed, the leadership has now changed in Poland and it looks like a pro-euro political leader may replace Kaczynski. “Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk’s pro-euro Civic Platform party is likely to cement its grip on power in a presidential election that must now be held by June after President Lech Kaczynski died in a plane crash,” reports Bloomberg today.

Kaczynski resisted Tusk’s effort to resist adopting the euro. “Kaczynski, who over the past three years had tried to block government efforts to overhaul Poland’s debt-ridden healthcare and pension systems, was also the last EU leader besides Vaclav Klaus of the Czech Republic to sign the Lisbon Treaty, and opposed Tusk’s euro adoption goal.”

In addition, Kaczynski placed a euro-skeptic ally in charge of the central bank, Slawomir Skrzypek, who was also killed in the crash.

Poland was the only country in the EU that refused to strengthen its currency, as its Zloty being weak was a benefit to the Polish economy in exports, employment and tax revenues. The national bank governor had said he would not take loans from the IMF…they had even been so bold as to offer to loan the IMF money! But after the governor’s untimely death the IMF loans have started against his plans.




posted on May, 25 2010 @ 11:17 AM
link   
Poland is the only country that is not in recession in Europe, it’s actually grown 2.75% this year, and 1.7% last year, and growth projections are even higher for next year. Its debt is quite low compared to other countries at around 50% of its GDP. We can expect Poland to be absorbed into the Eurozone and increasing the size of its debts as its Central Bank governor was taken in the crash.

After a licensed Novartis bird flu vaccine killed 21 homeless people in Poland in the summer of 2008, Poland refused the Swine flu vaccination, and was the only country in Europe to do so.

Poland and Italy were the only two countries in the EU to threaten to veto EU climate change plans.

Two weeks before the horrible plane crash involving the Polish Government and its finance head, the IMF visited Poland. They remarked that Poland was the only prosperous country in the EU, and also the last member signing into the European Union. They were wanting the Polish government to embrace the Euro as the sole unit of money, even though the polish Zloty has grown in value against the sinking Euro. And now a nation’s military heads and government have been deposed at one fell swoop.

Prime Minister Tusk is an EU-friendly politician in contrast to the leaders who died in the plane crash, and appears to be talented at doublespeak – much like Obama, showing support for policies that the public supports, in contrast to what he actually stands for and represents. Before the crash, Polish politicians were becoming more nationalistic and preferred Polish self-determination over international government and corporate cooperation.

Tusk’s party is predicted to win the next presidential election. The only two other presidential candidates died in the crash, publicly accepted and popular but now cast aside due to tragedy. The date of the presidential election has been moved up from October to June, giving Tusk’s party the advantage. His party’s victory will cement the dominance of the European Union over Poland, and quite conveniently just in time for Goldman Sachs, Citigroup and Morgan Stanley to move in todominate and corrupt their financial system.

Source
As far as I am concerned there is more than enough evidence to make me think twice about the official story regarding the plane crash. The video is enough to convince some people and while that’s all well and good I believe the ‘why?’ to be the most important element to this conspiracy because it is something that will eventually effect us all.
There is more to this conspiracy (e.g. Conflicting eye-witness reports, lack of bodies etc) but I will post them in due course. Any additional info would be much appreciated





Sources:
I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE INFORMATION CONTAINED WITHIN THIS THREAD CAME FROM THESE TWO SOURCES: truth11.com... AND www.humanityinchaos.com....

I am merely presenting them here and have not used the external link (EX) because my laptop is being a nuisence


ATS member 'InnerTruths' also has a great post about this subject that can be found here. It didn't receive enough attention as far as I'm concerned.

This thread by ATS member 'Portugoal' is also very interesting - here


www.tutiempo.net...
en.wikipedia.org...
truth11.com...
www.humanityinchaos.com...
www.telegraph.co.uk...
www.businessweek.com...
www.economist.com...



posted on May, 25 2010 @ 06:24 PM
link   
Some additional information regarding the weather conditions:

'Arkadiusz Mularczyk, an MP for the Kaczynski's Law and Justice party, was one of several politicians who failed to get a seat on the plane. He travelled to Smolensk by train instead.

"It feels like God gave me another chance to live," he said. But he had unanswered questions. "I was already in the Katyn forest when the plane crashed, and the visibility was perfect, the sun was shining. So why didn't they let them land?" he asked.'

Source

This article also has an interesting version of events with a Polish MP claiming that:

''One version of events says that the plane approached the airport four times, because every time the Russians refused it permission to land - they wanted to send the plane with the president to an airport in Moscow or Minsk.'

'They came up with some dubious reasons: that there was fog over the airport, and that the navigation system didn't work as it was under renovation, and that airport had a short landing strip.'

The rest of the article is basically an attack upon the judgement of the pilot stating that he was 'desperate to land because of the high ranking passengers he was carrying. It killed both the crew and the passengers.'

Which is something I really do not buy into at all.



posted on May, 27 2010 @ 03:53 PM
link   

Mistakes by the crew caused the crash of the Polish presidential plane near the western Russian town of Smolensk in April, Poland's envoy to the investigation said in his report on the accident.

Edmund Klich, who heads the Polish air accident investigations commission, examined recordings on the plane's black boxes and conversations between the crew members.

"The pilots ignored all danger warnings shown by the aircraft's automatic controls, and took an undue risk. Why? Because they were trained to do so," Klich told Rech Pospolita newspaper.

The newspaper said that, although the air crash investigation is not yet complete, Klich has already placed the blame for the accident on the crew.

"I will take the risk and be responsible for this. I think society should know," he said.


Klich earlier said non-crew members were in the cockpit of the crashed plane, including Polish Air Force Commander Andrzej Blasik, who wanted to "find out what was going on" just minutes before the tragedy.

Media reports said that the Foreign Ministry's chief protocol officer was also in the cockpit.


Seems rather unprofessional for Edmund Klich to come out and say that pilot error was to blame when the investigation is ongoing. Can't help but think they are trying to sweep the whole thing under the rug as quick as possible.

Also, more confirmation that there were other voices in the cockpit just before the crash with at least one being identified. It all seems a bit irresponsible to me.



posted on May, 27 2010 @ 10:03 PM
link   
Great thread....now how do the Russians fit into all this? I read a while back something about a pipeline through Poland that the recent president opposed, but that Tusk was favorable towards...Have you looked into this possible angle?



posted on May, 28 2010 @ 06:55 AM
link   

Originally posted by bigbomb456
Great thread....now how do the Russians fit into all this? I read a while back something about a pipeline through Poland that the recent president opposed, but that Tusk was favorable towards...Have you looked into this possible angle?


Where do the Russians fit in? It's a very good question and does seem to involve oil pipelines in some manner.

On the 12th February this year Finnish authorities gave the Switzerland-based Nord Stream consortium the last environmental permit it needed in order to start building a 1,223 kilometre-long pipeline through the Baltic Sea.

The truth is both Kaczynski and Tusk voiced their disapproval at the new pipeline which was created without the consultation of Poland.


Polish defence minister Radek Sikorski at a transatlantic conference in Brussels on Sunday (30 April) compared the pipeline to the 1939 Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, named after the Soviet and Nazi foreign ministers who divided Poland in a secret protocol.
- Source

That's how serious Poland took the situation.

Tusk had this to say of the pipeline:


"Poland certainly does not understand the Nord Stream project. What is the economic rationale for a decision whose outcome is a much more expensive transit of gas than by the traditional land route? For me, Nord Stream is an example of a lack of energy solidarity," Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said last month in an interview with Financial Times.


Personally I believe that the EU are major players in this whole conspiracy. I believe they are trying their best to try and entice Russia into the EU or at least get them onside.

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin threatened to review Russia's relations with the EU. "If Russia’s interests are ignored, we will also have to start reviewing the fundamentals of our relations."

So it is not suprising that this pipeline was an EU 'Priority Project':


The pipeline is backed by the European Commission as a "priority" project aimed at diversifying not only sources of energy but also routes. This alludes to what several Nord Stream supporters claim – that by avoiding Ukraine, EU-Russian relations will run smoothly and gas disruptions like the ones in 2006 and 2009 will no longer happen.


It must be stated that Tusk was far more friendly towards Russia and it's policies than Kaczynski. As this shows:


Tusk mentioned one more problem in bilateral relations. Warsaw may "adjust its position" on oil and gas supplies. He meant primarily Yaroslaw Kaczynski's decision to build a terminal on the Baltic coast - in the event that Moscow stops gas supplies via the Yamal-Europe pipeline. The prime minister did not promise to give up the plans for its construction but said that he "will be seeking a solution in Polish interests and will consider political aspects of relations with the neighbors."


So Tusk was willing to actively defy Kaczynski's decisions in order to accomodate the Russians. So, out of the two he was the one Russia would like to see in power - something that looks like it will happen next month.

Kaczynski also had a difficult relationship with Russia and Europes major power - Germany.


In foreign affairs he echoed Polish nationalist tradition of suspicion of both Russia and Germany. He had angered the former even as Minister of Justice when, in December 2000, he ordered that prosecutors investigate a mysterious high-tech telecommunications cable that Russia’s Gazprom has laid along its gas pipeline across Poland. Moscow took much greater offence when he agreed that the US could locate part of its planned anti- ballistic missile system in Poland. Kaczynski made further concessions to Washington when he stated that under certain circumstances Polish troops could continue their stabilisation mission in Iraq.


And the tensions between Tusk and Kaczynski were also evident:


There were tensions at home, too. As has frequently happened in independent Poland, the president and the prime minister have leant in opposite directions, and when Donald Tusk became Prime Minister in November 2007 there was noticeable friction between him and Kaczynski. Kaczynski’s nationalism perhaps fitted ill with the post-nationalist construct of the EU...


So, who has benefited from the death of Lech Kaczynski?

Firstly, Tusk, who it seems will become the new President of Poland next month.

Secondly, Russia, who have stronger ties with Tusk and who will be glad to see the back of one of their loudest denouncers.

Thirdly, the EU, who now have a pro-EU President in power and who also have stronger relations with Russia in general.



posted on May, 28 2010 @ 04:20 PM
link   
Great presentation in your thread! Lots of good information in an organized style. My opinion is that they were all murdered. Not sure how. But lot's of things don't add up. There is a lot of "fog" surrounding this issue. Russia is being very obviously selective on the information they are giving out.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 06:29 AM
link   

Polish officials will try to improve the quality of cockpit recordings of the plane crash that killed President Lech Kaczynski over the next two weeks before deciding whether to release them, Interior Minister Jerzy Miller said.

Miller made the comments a day after Poland released a transcript showing that pilots of the Polish Air Force Tupolev- 154 received eight automated “pull up” warnings in the minute before the April 10 crash at an airfield in Smolensk, Russia. “The transcript doesn’t provide an answer to very many questions and doubts,” Miller said in an interview published today in the Warsaw newspaper Gazeta Wyborcza.

......

After receiving two automated “pull up” warnings from the plane’s Terrain Awareness and Warning System, the co-pilot gave the order “we’re aborting,” 15 seconds before the crash.

It isn’t clear why the plane kept descending at this point, General Anatol Czaban, head of training for the Polish Air Force, said today in an interview with Radio ZET.

“The order ‘we’re aborting’ is unambiguous,” Czaban said. “You increase engine revs and climb, no matter who gives the order. Perhaps the fault lies with a failure of the airplane to respond” to the controls, he said. “The evidence provided by the transcript is inadequate, we don’t know.”


Yet more unambigiuty in regards to this incident and yet another confusing article that seems to blame:

1. The pilots.
2. The Officials.
3. The plane.

All within the same article, thus proving that although the investigation seems to be over there is still so much that they do not know regarding the crash.

I wouldn't bet on the transcript proving anything anyway, even if the quality is improved.



posted on Jun, 2 2010 @ 04:37 PM
link   
This was truly a sad day. will anyone reading this message please take a moment to remember those lossed...



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 08:54 AM
link   
reply to post by LiveForever8
 


Let me start out by writing that You have put effort in Your thread and I applaud that . Now to the case at hand :

The Pilot

Like you stated the pilot was more than capable of flying the plane , what You might not know is that there is a very strong suggestion that the pilot might have been preassured to land. He was the co-pilot for a flight to Tbilisi with the President in which the acting pilot at that time was ordered to land by the president even thou there were harsh conditions . He refused after which the President promised to destroy his career .

Link to an interview with the president that states that he indeed ordered the pilot to land.

www.tvn24.pl...

Another clue of the same situation happening in Smolensk is the fact that at the time of landing general Błasik (the head of Polish airforce) was in the cockpit (which is against the rules )

Also like the transcripts state untill the crash the system was warning the pilots of impending collision , also just before they hit the trees we can read "Kurwa " beeing said by the co-pilot meaning "Fu**" , so it shows that they were tryning to land untill the very end , but something went wrong and they hit the trees.

Below Link to transcript

i.wp.pl...

further at date

10:30:32,7 we can read " Narazie nie ma decyzji prezydenta co dalej robic" - meaning "For now there is no decision from the President what to do"

10:30:45 - "Najgorsze tam jest , ze jest dziura , tam sa chmury i wyszla mgla" meaning " The worst thing is that there is a hole , there are clouds and the fog has come out"
Which shows fog is there .

10:38:00,4 "Wkurzy sie jesli jeszcze (niezr) " meaning "He will get pissed if (unreadable)" now I wonder who will get pissed at what

This plane had to land there or the President would have been late for the celebrations and seeing as this was his upcoming presidential campaign stunt (he was not even invited there from what I remember) , he could not be late for that . But he would have been late if the plane was diverted to another airport since I believe the closest one was about 2h drive by cars , that is why he ordered the pilots to land and sadly they went ahead with that and tried to land . That was a mistake that cost them their lives .

To be continued

Weather conditions :

There was fog , the transcripts clearly show that the pilots were aware of it and acknowledged it , even more if you look at the video that you posted of the crash , you can clearly see fog in that video .

Arkadiusz Mularczyk is a hard core right wing crackpot and a very close friend of Jaroslaw Kaczynski the brother of dead President and he would say anything that would help out Jaroslaw in gaining power.


Why this crash did not change a thing

President Lech Kaczynski was a bad president , holding this country back in almost every aspect , just so that his brothers opposition party (after their cabinet fell apart after only 2 years in office amongs a BIG scandal with corruption) could block anything the government tried to do .

He had no chance at the upcoming elections that were supposed to be this year anyway , like I stated in the precious thread , that crash actually helped the opposition and Jaroslaw Kaczynski in gaining votes because his whole Presidential campaign was centered around the Smolensk tragedy (and yes there was a normal presidential election with different candidates , not like some crackpots think that Komorowski got auto elected) .

Komorowski got auto elected as the acting president until accelerated presidential elections were done , because he was the speaker of parliament and that is the law in our country. After that he won the elections in a normal democratic way.

Also You have to remember (or research) how our political system works . It is very much different then in the United States . Here the president has only a fraction of the power that the US president has, he is mainly a representative figure with only the power of veto against the bills of the government (the government then needs a 2/3 vote to be able to overthrow the veto which is not easy as we have 4 parties in government and they have a hard time agreeing on anything
)

He does not even get invited to major international gatherings (besides strict presidential ones) because the prime minister or the head of international affairs office represents the country in international dealings .

The loss of army generals did not do a thing because the army has procedures in such a case and they were quickly replaced by their second in command.

So You see besides a great personal tragedy the country as a whole did not really feel the catastrophe very much (on the contrary to what many crackpots want others outside Poland to believe) .

Also just to add : The investigation is far from over so if anything new happens to show up I will let You know.

[edit on 9-8-2010 by Thill]



new topics

top topics



 
8

log in

join