Fiscal crises threaten Europe's generous benefits

Article

Deep budget cuts are under way across Europe. Although the first round is focused mostly on government payrolls -- the least politically explosive target -- welfare benefits are looking increasingly vulnerable.

Germany will decide next month just how to cut at least 3 billion euros ($3.75 billion) from the budget. The government is suggesting for the first time that it could make fresh cuts to unemployment benefits that include giving Germans under 50 about 60 percent of their last salary before taxes for up to a year. That benefit itself emerged after cuts to an even more generous package about five years ago.

Deeply wary of military conflict, many nations now find themselves nonetheless mired in Afghanistan on behalf of what was supposed to be a North Atlantic alliance, shying away from wholesale pullout while doing their utmost to keep troops from actual combat.

On Monday, Britain unveils 6 billion pounds ($8.6 billion) in cuts -- mostly to government payrolls and expenses. The government has promised to raise the age at which citizens receive a state pension -- up from 60 to 65 for women, and from 65 to 66 for men. It also plans to toughen the welfare regime, requiring the unemployed to try to find jobs in order to collect benefits.

What are the people that get these benefits going to do when they are not there anymore? Will Europe become how it was decades ago, possibly going back to the way it was over 100 years ago? It looks possible, but I wouldnt say for sure just yet. Im not from Europe, but from what Ive been seeing on the news, the situation seems to be deteriorating day by day.

This paragraph got me thinking -

The system known as the European welfare state was built after World War II as the keystone of a shared prosperity meant to prevent future conflict. Generous lifelong benefits have since become a defining feature of modern Europe.

If there's no more shared prosperity, what will happen then? Will nations begin to start being hostile toward eachother again? After reading that paragraph, thats why Im thinking it is possible to "go back decades" in a sense.

For the people on ATS in Europe, what do yall think about this? Is it really as bad as its portrayed to be on the news here in the US?

Originally posted by buni11687
What are the people that get these benefits going to do when they are not there anymore? Will Europe become how it was decades ago, possibly going back to the way it was over 100 years ago? It looks possible, but I wouldnt say for sure just yet. Im not from Europe, but from what Ive been seeing on the news, the situation seems to be deteriorating day by day.

I didn't get any of these benefits when I was living in Ireland and I don't get any while living in Germany.. Apart from some healthcare cover..

The vast vast majority of people don't get any benefits..

In 2008, the US lost 25% of its wealth and the EU lost 6%..

This is the western realignment of wealth.. EU states are now getting the later slap of reality as a result of the Global crash and will probably end up losing the equivalent..

Deteriorating?

The markets are deteriorating.. And with it, politicians are kicking up a fuss..Thats it..

Media sells fear.. Thats how they profit..

Im in Berlin now.. Sunny, warm, people are happy..

I was in Southampton in the UK over the weekend.. Sunny, warm, people were happy..

I was in Ireland last week.. Sunny, warm, people were happy, I was drunk for most of it but whats new..

The media is selling this as a gigantic disaster.. So what if I have to pay an extra 5 cent tax per day because of this? Big deal.. Multiply that by 82 million and then by 365 days and you have a decent figure that the Media will spin to sell papers..

But the fact is im still only losing 5 cent extra of my wealth per day..


[edit on 25/5/10 by Dermo]

Dow futures are reporting a 2.5 percent loss for today...

300 point loss on the US market today.....


IMO cut all welfare and CULL THE HERD ! ! !



[edit on 25-5-2010 by Zaanny]

IMO cut all welfare and CULL THE HERD ! ! !

+1,000,000,000,000

Couldent have said it better

SWEET DOW bell opener..... - 250 points right on the last ding....

And we need a global economy...... ?

I love that fact that my hard worked monies that I try to invest in American companies is influenced by foreign world affairs...

Originally posted by ChrisF231

IMO cut all welfare and CULL THE HERD ! ! !

+1,000,000,000,000

Couldent have said it better

pretty sick if you ask me. Cut the money from some of the most needy in society.

Hitler proposed a similar thing, by trying to CULL THE HERD.

This site is really starting to do my head in. I really hope none of you or your family falls upon hard times.

reply to post by Dermo


This is why I love ATS - we can actually get information across the world from somebody who isnt in the media thats owned by big goverment.

Atleast when I watch/look up the news, here in the US, all they talk about is bad this, bad that. Im starting to think that the media is throwing all this doom and gloom around here just so we in the US dont feel so bad about whats happening to us and can say "Hey, look! They're doing bad/worse to, so we are still good!" Its like the media is covering our own fear of failure by saying someone else is doing bad, therefore we must still be the all amazing untouchable country - but in reality, we are very vulnerable at the moment.

edit - spelling
[edit on 25-5-2010 by buni11687]

[edit on 25-5-2010 by buni11687]

If you haven't payed into the system you don't deserve anything from the system....

Originally posted by Zaanny
If you haven't payed into the system you don't deserve anything from the system....

said the good christian no doubt

Sorry i don't read fictional books.....

Originally posted by Zaanny
Sorry i don't read fictional books.....

Novels?

Why not man? You don't know what you're missing..

well... I live in the netherland and work as an entrepeneur cabinetmaker. especially kitchens and bathrooms. and for the last 18 months i've had about 5 monht's worth of work. my father who has been in this bussines over 20 years said he's never seen a time like this... he's ALWAYS had an abundance of work available to him... Alot of fellow entrepeneurs around me have gone bankrupt the last couple of years.. when the media started talking about this crisis 18 month's ago things started to go downhill... ironically dutch savings increased by at least 50% in these times... nowadays the media has been increasingly showing a positive attitude towards our situation but the fact remains i've gone 5 weeks without a drip of work... I feel the media is trying to give consumers renewed (false) faith in the economy. offcourse there is a broad spectrum of workers here and not everyone feels it right away but the way I depend on my work unfortunately makes me and my colleaques the first line to be hit... (I receive my work from large corporations who also have their own workforce, in essence I get the scraps)

[edit on 25-5-2010 by faceoff85]

reply to post by faceoff85

well... I live in the netherland and work as an entrepeneur cabinetmaker. especially kitchens and bathrooms. and for the last 18 months i've had about 5 monht's worth of work. my father who has been in this bussines over 20 years said he's never seen a time like this.

This happens because many people don't realize that the "extra 5 cents" a day they cede to the federal government eventually puts a citizen out of work and creates more government bureaucrats. It is a endless quest to centralize power.

The larger the central government the fewer small businesses.

Conditions for INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY in this world are worsening. Entrepreneurs and small businesses are the concrete expression of this idea and as it is diminished so are they.

Originally posted by mike_trivisonno
reply to post by faceoff85

 

This happens because many people don't realize that the "extra 5 cents" a day they cede to the federal government eventually puts a citizen out of work and creates more government bureaucrats. It is a endless quest to centralize power.

The larger the central government the fewer small businesses.

Conditions for INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY in this world are worsening. Entrepreneurs and small businesses are the concrete expression of this idea and as it is diminished so are they.

You know what the biggest letdown was? The amount of envelopes the government is sending these days... I've been an entrepeneur for over 4 years now and when the going gets tough... the government gets alot more pushy for you to pay your bills... I've been able to keep my head above the water for these last 18 months but I'm not gonna last forever... all the intel gathered on this site gives me a pretty bad outlook on the economic future not to mention all the other things going on... I'm trying real hard to prepare for what I believe is coming.. I just hope it'll be enough...

The amount of envelopes the government is sending these days.

Sadly, large centralized governments do not readily recognize individual rights and won't hesitate to use guns on a population unwilling to toil for the government.

Reduce the size of the central government and individuals will again prosper.

I feel hopeful here in America because of awakening so many are experiencing as they realize that the federal government helps only itself and not the citizens. That it is nothing but a scam to separate them from their money. That it is one giant global criminal operation.

Originally posted by mike_trivisonno
This happens because many people don't realize that the "extra 5 cents" a day they cede to the federal government eventually puts a citizen out of work and creates more government bureaucrats. It is a endless quest to centralize power.

The larger the central government the fewer small businesses.

Conditions for INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY in this world are worsening. Entrepreneurs and small businesses are the concrete expression of this idea and as it is diminished so are they.

Firstly, Im in the EU.. not the States.. We've always had a bigger system of governance and tbh, the more I listen to the Yank view about government, the less I care about the perspective..

If I had been paying that extra five cents in Ireland, it wouldn't have gone to the Irish federal government because Ireland doesn't have a federal government..

The German government is a federal Government and they are raising taxes during the bad times to cover their rising deficit..

For the record.. That extra 30 euro's a year I would be paying in taxes as a result of the "5 cent per day" have been offset about a hundred times by the growth of my business.. Which I own.. Which is a small business..

And I hate to state the blatantly obvious but Taxes always go up during hard times and down during good times..

I know this is a conspiracy site and raising taxes are obviously a prelude to a Psychotic New World Order hell bent on the destruction of mankind through a devil worshipping centralized government..

But a more realistic perspective will show that what goes up must come down and most of us in the EU realize that we have had a decade of good times and quite a bit of over spending.. Now we need to pay for it..

I don't see the problem tbh..

And finally, maybe a bit of perspective.. we have been through the centuries and decades of big government, small government, big government etc etc etc and we know its cyclical depending on who is voted into power.. Whereas ye are only getting to that point now for the first time..

So when I say that the idea of big government means nothing to me, I mean it.. When I was growing up, the Irish government had to start a huge amount of companies in a socialist big government way.. These were all later sold for substantial profits to the private markets and the government size collapsed.. Now that has been reversed as the Government is buying assets and struggling business's in order to keep liquidity in the banks..ie Big government.. And will sell them later meaning small government..

And all this happened in the space of 20 years..

[edit on 25/5/10 by Dermo]

Dermo, you appear to be one of the lucky ones and I hope it stays that way for you. But the way I see things (I am in the UK), small businesses are a dying breed.

So many have gone under, and many more been bought out by larger chains. How many formerly independant shops are now a londis or tesco metro? How many pubs are owned by a major brewery?

Individuality is pooped upon from a great height here. Its not just the government and corporations doing it. Its a part of the culture. It is good to be a sheep and blindly follow the leader. That is how to get places. However start thinking for yourself and making your own decisions then people dont quite know how to take you and that can lead to all sorts of trouble.

I have already lost a lot due to the economic collapse, and and will lose what little I have left when the new laws come into play. The people who will get hit hardest are those who have little because everythign will be taken from them. Those with plenty (and the ones with most to gain out of this mess) wont even notice what is taken from them. This is completely unfair, and nothing short of corruption.

Remember this is all gathered from my perspective and experiences. Of course someone who benefits from the system as it is will think contrary to me, that is natural. But I see it for the disgusting creature it really is.

reply to post by Firefly_


Look, I understand that 100%
I know a lot of people that have lost a lot, myself included, but I've managed to dig myself out of unemployment into my own business.

What I was pointing out to the poster was that the extra taxes during hard times are more than likely not some conspiracy for big government to take over..

Simple as that. Maybe you misinterpreted my post?

And for the record.. Larger companies buying out smaller ones isn't as a result of government intervention.. Thats the inevitable conclusion to capitalism and non government intervention in monopolization.

Btw, I hope things pick up for you

[edit on 25/5/10 by Dermo]