It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

911 Smoking Gun - The Story They Don't Want You To Read

page: 1
11

log in

join
share:

posted on May, 24 2010 @ 05:00 AM
link   

Pentagon Says Sept. 11 Interceptors Flew: TOO FAR, TOO SLOW, TOO LATE


Full Story

I found that write up to be pretty interesting on the 9/11 subject to say the least. I dunno how much fact is to it, but its a good read.




posted on May, 24 2010 @ 06:21 AM
link   
 


off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 06:42 AM
link   
I used to fly out of Plymouth, MA. right next to OTIS AFB on the Cape and we could buzz down to NYC in a slow Cessna 152 in an hour or so.
Nevertheless, an F-15, one of the fastest interceptor aircraft in the world could cover the distance in considerably less time, most likely in about 10 minutes.

But the planes wern't meant to be shot down.
In Webster Tarpley's book , 9/11 Synthetic Terror, they list the number of military exercises that were taking place on 9/11 and the number is, well let's count 'em.

1. Amalgam Virgo - Air Defense against cruise missiles & hijackings
2. Vigilant Guardian - Air Defense against Highjacking
3. Northern Guardian Air Defense
4. Vigilant Warrior -NORAD Exercise
5. Amalgam Warrior - Large Live fly Air Defense and Intercept
6. Northern Vigilance - NORAD deploys fighters to Alaska & N. Canada
7. Global Guardian - Nuclear Warfighting "Armageddon"
8. Crown Vigilance - Air Combat command exercise
9. Apollo Guardian - Air Defense and Intercept tracking exercise
10. National Reconnaissance Office - Crashed aircraft exercise
11. AWACS - AWACS over Florida, Washington DC
12. Fort Meyer VA - Pentagon Firemen, Aircraft crash refresher course
13. TRIPOD II, Manhattan - Response to Biochemical Attack
14. Timely Alert II - Emergency response to bomb attack

With this many exercises ongoing on 9/11 it is fairly apparent as to why there was so much confusion amongst the ranks.

If you recall the conversation between the air traffic controllers when it had been discovered that Flight 11 had been hijacked.
The first thing out of the guys mouth was " Is this real or an exercise?".

Meanwhile Dick Cheney is in his bunker underneath the Whitehouse, watching the operation unfold, and counting his profits, while GW is reading books to school children in FL.

How convenient !




posted on May, 24 2010 @ 06:42 AM
link   

Originally posted by -Blackout-

Pentagon Says Sept. 11 Interceptors Flew: TOO FAR, TOO SLOW, TOO LATE


Full Story

I found that write up to be pretty interesting on the 9/11 subject to say the least. I dunno how much fact is to it, but its a good read.


For what it is worth, that link takes you to Rense.com and I've picked up some nasty viruses at that site in the past.

This is not a comment on the content, the website administrator, etc. Just stating what happened to me before.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 07:12 AM
link   
reply to post by hooper
 


I've been visiting Rense for years with nary a problem. And actually have encountered more browser related incidents, primarily malware as a result of java scripted advertisements here on ATS.

Often viruses vs malware are already established on your system in the form of rootkits, and unless you are scanning for them regularly upon startup, they are already resident on your system in the form of a process.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 08:25 AM
link   
reply to post by hooper
 



For what it is worth, that link takes you to Rense.com and I've picked up some nasty viruses at that site in the past.

This is not a comment on the content, the website administrator, etc. Just stating what happened to me before.


Again so easy for the debunkers to lie about anything even, use I got viruses from that site, as to make the source look more untrustworthy.

You have never got a virus from rense.com funny that you never reported it, nor anyone else on the planet.
websitetrafficspy

With 2.5 million visitors a mouth, if they had viruses, I guarentee that would be plastered across the web, by thousands. Like the serials and crake ware sites, but not one listing about rense!

ohh easy for those ATS professionial debunkers to pass off lies once again!

Not everyone likes rense so be it, but to lie that you got viruses, is so lame hooper.



The article is sound, like before we know that the Air Defense system was hoobled and tied up that day so no one could do any good against tyranny.

[edit on 24-5-2010 by theability]



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 08:44 AM
link   

Originally posted by -Blackout-


I found that write up to be pretty interesting on the 9/11 subject to say the least. I dunno how much fact is to it, but its a good read.


*sigh* Yet another "Smoking Gun"!!!

Can we move on now from the "smoking guns" (what is that now....10? 12?) and start the indictments and the kangaroo courts and the summary executions in the town squares? I don't think the body politic can take any more "smoking guns". It'll explode like that fat guy from The Meaning of Life.

Thanks! I'll be waiting.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 08:57 AM
link   
I've been trying to find a copy of the press release alleged to have originated with NORAD and haven't (after five minutes of ruthless, efficient googling) been able to find it. What I did find is a press release related to the publication of a book by William Thomas, entitled All Fall Down.

The NORAD press release is referred to in the press release about Thomas's new book. Perhaps the NORAD press release is duplicated in the book. Much as I might welcome a revelation like this, I would very much like to see the press release myself before celebrating.

As Dana Carvey in the persona of George Bush Sr. would say, "It wouldn't be prudent to do otherwise."

Here is a link to the press release about Thomas's book.

www.scribd.com...

The release goes into some detail but here's how it starts.


News Release Monday 17 November, 2003, 23:27 GMT

Air Force Says 911 Interceptors Flew Slow

Vancouver, November 17/PRNewswire? -- A North American Aerospace Defence Command report reveals that every interception made on Sept 11 by the world's hottest air-combat aircraft was flown at a fraction of their top speeds.



[edit on 24-5-2010 by ipsedixit]



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 08:59 AM
link   
reply to post by nh_ee
 


Thank you. Very interesting. Like I said, not a comment about the content just reporting what I may have experienced.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 09:02 AM
link   
reply to post by theability
 


Whatever. Like I said, it was my experience. Not a comment on the validity of the site or its contents. If you have no problems then cut and paste the article here and cite the reference.

And the "liar, liar, liar" stuff is getting to sound very childish.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 12:08 PM
link   
I have to say that I am extremely sceptical of this press release's existence. If it does exist, it may well be a case of whistleblower activity disguised as dumb klutz behavior.

When you look into this whole issue, the air defense response to the hijackings, what jumps out is a lot of controversy over the timeline, i.e., who did what when. Manipulating or lying about the timeline would enable details like aircraft speed to be concealed.

A statement from NORAD about the speed of responding aircraft would go like a bowling ball through the carefully set up nine-pins of NORAD and White House time references for various things done and actions taken.

This kind of press release is the sort of thing that would show up in Paul Thompson's 9/11 timeline archive. I can't find a reference to it. If it actually exists and can be produced or verified in some way, it is a blockbuster revelation.

Here's how Vanity Fair in a celebrated article about the release of the "NORAD" tapes described the scrambling of jets from Otis AFB:

www.vanityfair.com...


In light of this news, someone asks Nasypany what to do with the fighters—the two F-15s from Otis Air National Guard Base—which have now just blasted off for New York at full afterburner to find American 11. (The flying time at full speed from Cape Cod to New York is about 10 minutes.) Pumped with adrenaline, Nasypany doesn't miss a beat.

08:52:40
NASYPANY: Send 'em to New York City still. Continue! Go!
NASYPANY: This is what I got. Possible news that a 737 just hit the World Trade Center. This is a real-world. And we're trying to confirm this. Okay. Continue taking the fighters down to the New York City area, J.F.K. area, if you can. Make sure that the F.A.A. clears it— your route all the way through. Do what we gotta do, okay? Let's press with this. It looks like this guy could have hit the World Trade Center.


Here's how the press release for Thomas's book describes the scrambling of the Otis AFB jets:

www.scribd.com...


"The first pair of F-15s launched from Otis AFB on Cape Cod were capable of exceeding 1,875 mph. But NORAD's official timeline shows that the heavily armed "Strike Eagles" flew to defend their country at a leisurely 447 mph.


This is an example of the sorts of contradictions in testimony about the Otis AFB jets whereabouts at the time of the second tower hit on 9/11.

www.historycommons.org... es=off&projects=off&titles=on&descriptions=on&dosearch=on&search=Go


(9:03 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Contradictions over Otis Fighter Mission and Whereabouts The minute Flight 175 hits the South Tower, fighter pilot Major Daniel Nash will recall, clear visibility allows him to see smoke pour out of Manhattan, even though NORAD will say he is 71 miles away from there. [Cape Cod Times, 8/21/2002]

The other Otis pilot, Lieutenant Colonel Timothy Duffy, recalls, “We’re 60 miles out, and I could see the smoke from the towers.” They call NORAD’s Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) for an update, and, as Duffy will recall: “At that point, they said the second aircraft just hit the World Trade Center. That was news to me. I thought we were still chasing American [Airlines Flight] 11.” [ABC News, 9/14/2002]

In another account Duffy will relate: “It was right about then when they said the second aircraft had just hit the World Trade Center, which was quite a shock to both [Nash] and I, because we both thought there was only one aircraft out there. We were probably 70 miles or so out when the second one hit. So, we were just a matter of minutes away.” [BBC, 9/1/2002]

He asks NEADS for clarification of their mission, but the request is met with “considerable confusion.” [Aviation Week and Space Technology, 6/3/2002]

Bob Varcadipane, a Newark, New Jersey, air traffic controller who sees the Flight 175 crash, will claim: “I remember the two F-15s. They were there moments after the impact. And I was just—said to myself, ‘If only they could have gotten there a couple minutes earlier.’ They just missed it.” [MSNBC, 9/11/2002]

However, the 9/11 Commission appears to believe that the pilots never get near New York City at this time. According to the Commission’s account, lacking a clear target, the Otis fighters took off toward military controlled airspace over the ocean, off the coast of Long Island. A map released by the Commission indicates that at 9:03 they are about 100 miles away and heading southwest instead of west to New York City. [9/11 Commission, 6/17/2004]

Tape recordings of the NEADS operations floor reveal Major Kevin Nasypany telling Colonel Robert Marr, “Fighters are south of—just south of Long Island.” [Vanity Fair, 8/1/2006]

The 9/11 Commission says that, at 9:10 a.m., the FAA’s Boston Center tells the Otis fighters about the second WTC tower being struck. [9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004, pp. 459]


People who haven't really looked into this aspect of the 9/11 story will begin to appreciate why the "press release" referred to by the OP would be considered a big deal.

As I said, I'm skeptical of its existence. The Thomas book came out in 2003, making reference to this document. It's not mentioned in the Thompson timeline and I've never heard of it. I think it's the sort of thing that would have made a big splash in '03, if it had been authenticated at the time.

As far as I am concerned, the jury is still out on this one.


[edit on 24-5-2010 by ipsedixit]



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 02:24 PM
link   
If people are interested, I did find the original press release from NORAD.

Edit: No I did not. What I found was a rebuttal to Mr. Thomas's assertions in his original article, reprinted on the Rense website. What follows is still germane, but the fact remains that I still haven't seen the original NORAD press release referred to by Mr. Thomas. Sorry folks. Pitfalls of speed reading.

It was issued in response to a European news agency's story that the jet interceptors on 9/11 flew slowly on their mission.

Here is a link to it:

www.scribd.com...

According to the press release, at the time of the 9/11 incident, interceptors configured for use over the US "alert configured" in NORADSPEAK could not, according to NORAD fly at their maximun speed per manufacturer's specifications.

This is in excess of 1500 mph. (Apologies but it is hard to find specifications for the "A" version of the F-15, used on 9/11. I think the current one is the "F15-E", which is considerably faster.)

According to the press release, the jets out of Otis flew at .86 Mach ( 526 knots true airspeed or 606 mph. at 20,000 feet.)

The maximum operational speed of the "alert configured" F-15A Eagles out of Otis AFB on 9/11 was 1.3 Mach (750 knots true airspeed or 863 mph at 40,000 feet.)

As noted above both speeds are below the manufacture's showroom selling point speed.

I don't know whether this info really makes the controversy go away though.

According to the press release linked above:


Even if the fighters had flown at maximum operational speeds, they could not have intercepted the hijacked airliners prior to impact.


But this is where tiny details and every minute of the timeline become magnified in importance.

At least now, I do believe there was a press release on this subject from NORAD. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to say exactly what Mr. Thomas says it says.

Mr. Thomas appears to be calculating airspeeds from "the official timeline" released by NORAD. That timeline is cast in stone as solid as shifting sand.

Edit to add:
I must say that it is still somewhat attention getting that the jets out of Otis were not motoring at even their alert configured maximum of 863 mph.


[edit on 24-5-2010 by ipsedixit]



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 02:44 PM
link   
Old news that has already been divulged in other sources. NOT a "smoking gun" at all.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 03:12 PM
link   
reply to post by mikelee
 

I agree. This is an old story. It may well have been thrashed out in other threads heretofore.

The story of air defense on 9/11 abounds in oddities.



posted on May, 25 2010 @ 01:28 PM
link   
double post

[edit on 25-5-2010 by iamcpc]



posted on May, 25 2010 @ 01:28 PM
link   
reply to post by -Blackout-
 


If they didn't want me to read this story then I would not be reading this story.



new topics

top topics



 
11

log in

join