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Subliminal Advertising - Always real or interpretation?

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posted on May, 26 2010 @ 05:28 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 

As far as advertising goes - it confuses me as I pointed out, because it is all geared for manipulation. I don't know where to draw the line between normal liminal techniques and "subliminal". Everything about advertisements is meant to entice and overwhelm the senses - the colouring, the wording, the music...so maybe it's a bit of a moot point to say there's some "extra" imagery at every level.
Just consider how the volume increases manifold on our TVs when ad breaks come on. And that harmful volume change has also been banned in some countries. The paradox is that you can't ban something that doesn't exist.
It's a bit like homophobic countries (especially in Africa) saying homosexuality doesn't exist in their societies, and yet they jail people for it. Go figure.



[edit on 26-5-2010 by halfoldman]




posted on May, 26 2010 @ 05:47 PM
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Subliminal advertising is over complicated or rather people think it's really complicated to do.

The truth is that subliminal advertising utilizes ONE thing your unconscious processes

People can generally pay attention to 7 plus or minus 2 different things at once, once you go past that people have a hard time recollecting and will become confused easily.

Because we can only pay attention to (or be conscious of) 7 plus or minus 2 different things at once we usually fill those to our preferential limits, so we'll be conscious of our breathing, the temperature, how we physically feel standing or sitting or laying down, where you're going or what you're doing, how you look, how you smell, how things look around you, etc... you get the picture.

So because we are already at full capacity or close to it, you filter a lot of material out (consciously) although your unconscious mind/subconscious mind is always paying attention to everything, it doesn't have the same filters as our conscious mind does which is why if I tell you NOT to think of blue, you HAVE to think of blue to understand the sentence which is a good example of the difference between the unconscious mind and the conscious mind. The unconscious mind doesn't process negation. Which is why a lot of people have problems when they try to tell themselves stuff like, Don't eat that piece of cake, don't smoke, don't drink, or .. stop drinking, or stop smoking, or stop hitting your sister; all the unconscious mind hears is the process "eat that piece of cake" "smoke" "drink" "hitting your sister"

Now to tie this into subliminal advertising for those who can't draw the correlations, if they jam pack their advertisements with MORE than 7 plus or minus 2 elements it will overload your conscious mind and you will only consciously comprehend the very blatant things that are to be expected from advertising.

I could talk about this for hours but instead I'll just post a video to show an example of one way this works.

This video is a MUST SEE for anyone interested in this Topic

Direct Link: www.youtube.com...

To summarize my stance, I would say it's always real.... BUT it doesn't always work the same for everyone, some people are polarity responders.
I used to do this all the time to my parents and friends just to see if it would work, ... I would whistle the tune to a local fast food restaurant in the morning time when I woke up and when most people do a lot of talking to themselves (internal dialogue) so they aren't necessarily paying attention directly to the things around them.... and then later on in the day I'd ask them if they wanted to go out for some food, when they responded yes they would usually say something like "You know I haven't gone to _______ in awhile I was thinking about it earlier, want to go there?" ... I would even ask them if they made up their mind or if they think they were influenced to go there and they always say to me .. no I felt like going there... and 10/10 times it was the place I was whistling the tune to earlier that morning.
When I told them that I had whistled the tune to that particular obscure fast food restaurant they denied ever hearing me whistle it or having it influence them although I know for certain they were within earshot to hear.

[edit on 5/26/2010 by PuRe EnErGy]



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 06:09 PM
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reply to post by PuRe EnErGy
 

Another great post - really interesting.
However, despite that, some adverts fail completely, and even turn the target market off the product. Really top-level ads are in fact a gamble, with careers on the line.
Derren Brown is great, however, I once phoned a radio show hosting a top hypnotist, and he claimed that Derren Brown's programs make it out as if his methods always worked, and he probably gets a group of 10 people and his tricks only work on 1 person, but that 1 is the "success" they will show on television.
To play devil's advocate - I'm still not 100% convinced that the "subconscious" actually exists. If so, how could we tell, because we are only making these assumptions from recognitions of the rational, normal mind?


[edit on 26-5-2010 by halfoldman]



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 06:30 PM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 



It is well known that Derren Brown does that with A LOT of his demonstrations, as you can tell though in this example this was his one take, and it was difficult to pull off and he "hoped" it worked the way he wanted it to. For instance to validate what you're saying, there are many times he does stunts where he only shows the successes but most times Derren will throw one failed attempt in his program to show it doesn't always work.

As for your comments about the unconscious mind.

The Unconscious Mind
It is a concept and a darn good one at that... It is a way of describing a process.

It is a fact that you are not always conscious of your breathing, your temperature, etc... although you can become conscious of them, you can consciously change some of those processes, like your breathing, blood-pressure and your temperature and some people have a great deal of success in doing so consciously.

Although most of the time these are controlled by your unconscious mind, you have developed "another" mind or another consciousness to run those learnings.

For instance when you learn to ride a bicycle you have to do everything very consciously you have to pay attention to the peddling, to steering and to keeping your balance on two tires, but after you "learn" those things it passes into your unconscious mind and you only have to be conscious that you are getting onto a bicycle and the direction you're going... you don't have to fiddle around learning it all consciously again.

It's the same thing with reading, writing and arithmetic.

The unconscious mind exists.... it's like the friend you stopped listening to.... unfortunately you can't just get rid of this friend, it's with you for life and the more you think it's a great idea to reacquaint yourself with that very powerful part of you the more you will begin to realize it's been there the whole time.



[edit on 5/26/2010 by PuRe EnErGy]



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 07:24 PM
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reply to post by PuRe EnErGy
 

How well can we really control breathing, blood pressure and involuntary reflexes? The vast majority of people need medications to control these processes, and other studies of supposed Tibetan monks controlling these things are hearsay?
Freud came up with the conscious/unconscious Western dichotomy, mainly through his work on dreams, which is now quite foreign to us (the New Age influence of dreams as quasi-spirituality on society has long overshadowed the sexual nuerosis of dreams).
Freud's erstwhile disciple, Carl Jung used the unsconscious construct for different effects, and even claimed that the super-ego, or Freud's controlling mechanism was simply a disguise for God, or Jehova.
Sure we have internal dialogue (and advertising wants to expand and clarify that internal narrative to a predicted outcome). Sure we can relax, but hardly control our vital functions.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by PuRe EnErGy
 

How well can we really control breathing, blood pressure and involuntary reflexes? The vast majority of people need medications to control these processes, and other studies of supposed Tibetan monks controlling these things are hearsay?
Freud came up with the conscious/unconscious Western dichotomy, mainly through his work on dreams, which is now quite foreign to us (the New Age influence of dreams as quasi-spirituality on society has long overshadowed the sexual nuerosis of dreams).
Freud's erstwhile disciple, Carl Jung used the unsconscious construct for different effects, and even claimed that the super-ego, or Freud's controlling mechanism was simply a disguise for God, or Jehova.
Sure we have internal dialogue (and advertising wants to expand and clarify that internal narrative to a predicted outcome). Sure we can relax, but hardly control our vital functions.


I could go on and on with examples but suffice to say that just because you do not believe you have control over your vital functions doesn't mean other people don't believe they can control them and ultimately do control them.

a boxer alters his state, actors alter their states, the list goes on...

You can control your breath by doing breathing exercises 15 minutes a day and eventually you can regulate and alter the way you breath on a day-to-day basis.

You can control your blood-pressure by simply thinking of things that stress you out, or scare you..... or by thinking of pleasant, relaxing things, or by thinking of things that excite you in different ways (if you know what I mean


and no those monks were not discredited in fact they sent a team of scientists out there to study them performing their TUMO meditations and were astonished at the results.
en.wikipedia.org...

An attempt to study the physiological effects of Tummo has been made by Benson and colleagues (Benson et al., 1982; Cromie, 2002) who studied Indo-Tibetan Yogis in the Himalayas and in India in the 1980s. In the first experiment, in Upper Dharamsala (India), Benson et al. (1982) found that these subjects exhibited the capacity to increase the temperature of their fingers and toes by as much as 8.3°C. In the most recent experiment, which was conducted in Normandy (France), two monks from the Buddhist tradition wore sensors that recorded changes in heat production and metabolism (Cromie, 2002).


Yes Freud came up with the conscious/unconscious and he also came up with a lot of stuff that just isn't useful at all. Jung on the other hand approached it with more theory drawing off of cultures from antiquity and viewing things from a more spiritual stand-point.

If you really want to learn more about this I recommend reading some Ericksonian hypnosis and Richard Bandler.

[edit on 5/26/2010 by PuRe EnErGy]



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 08:30 PM
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reply to post by PuRe EnErGy
 

Is there an example from a peer-reviewed journal of somebody curing, for example, hyper-tension with these techniques (which sound quite similar to TM's "cure all" adverts from the 1970s).
Of course what I believe is not set, and I did say I was playing devil's advocate (or sceptic)
. So what I claim here to give space for elucidation is not what I necessarily believe.
Sure, actors and boxers psyche themselves up - but for healthy adults the physical effects are rather unremarkable, nothing more than the fight or flight relfex, or running to the bus stop.
Interestingly though, I was watching a program about curious deaths, and it showed a man who literally laughed himself to death after a laughing spasm of 20 minutes. So strangely, laughter can lead to a series of events that end in cardiac arrest! So exteme fear and laughter can be emotions that profoundly effect the body and lead to death. However, those are out of control moments, whereas you illustrate that we can consciously heal ourselves through short periods of guided breathing?


[edit on 26-5-2010 by halfoldman]



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 09:20 PM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


My exact quote was



You can control your breath by doing breathing exercises 15 minutes a day and eventually you can regulate and alter the way you breath on a day-to-day basis.


I prefer to call it learning.

As for an example of "Subliminal" advertising...

There's a new Vonage commercial I just watched and at first everyone is talking about "How BIG it it..." Wow it's BIG, .. so BIG .. three or four people say before you find out what's so big... it's a BILL, ... but the insinuation they were going after is obvious .. you could call this subliminal advertising or you could call it hypnotic language, or covert... But the truth is all of this is happening all the time without you realizing it, like above... no where did I say heal yet you claimed I said you could "heal" yourself through breathing exercises. Much in the same way we use our own experiences and interpretations to make sense of the world around us and the languages we use. Transderivational search is another way advertisers can get away with certain kinds of advertising that adults may think are unsuitable for children, but when I child watches it they have no idea what it's insinuating. I would rather not argue the morality of that I'm just using it as an example so you know what I'm talking about.

Transderivational search is another technique that advertisers and hypnotists alike use, but if you understand what they are and look for them, you'll notice everyone you know uses transderivational search.
en.wikipedia.org...


So to conclude I would like to say that none of this is out of the ordinary, there are things about communication that we take for granted and that we overlook on a daily basis and all it takes it slowing things down a bit and paying attention to communication, but completely observing it, from body language, posture, skin tone, skin color changes, eye dilation, breathing rate... etc. All of these things attribute to influence and persuasion and they use all of it in advertising. A very interesting man with a VERY interesting life story is Milton H. Erickson At age 17, he contracted polio but what happened to him after that is where we get Ericksonian Hypnosis today.
en.wikipedia.org...

Well in the least I hope that you found my posts informative and maybe we both learned something out of our interactions.

Take care and Happy Learnings!



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 09:45 PM
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reply to post by PuRe EnErGy
 

Thank you very much for broadening my horizons, especially on the transdiversional stuff, which was totally new to me.
Strange, when I glossed over the post I was immediately drawn to viewing trance parties on you-tube, and the memory I have of them, and that was before I read closer or opened the links. "Trans", "trance" - interesting stuff!



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 10:02 PM
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I will tell you something I know about subliminal messages. Do they exist? Yes. Are they being used? Yes. Do they work? I dont know.

My cousin's fiancee is the niece of one of the most powerful politicians in Brazil. She works in the company that is responsible for that politicians Marketing. Every photo, video, speech, billboard, etc, involving his image, goes through them.

She told me once that Subliminal Messages are always used. Always.



posted on May, 27 2010 @ 12:51 AM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton
So the laws against subliminal advertising were in reaction to a panic caused by a hoax...


Want to debate whether or not it was a hoax?

You should know that subliminals in recent years have actually been substantiated by mainstream media...I even walked in (coincedentally) on an eyewitness news report that stated that subliminals had been verified in a scientific study.

There are patents regarding remote influence of the human physiology from 1937...and this topic is such that was kept from the proprietarily influenced mainstream media for much of modern pop history...so the laws were not necessarily made for a hoax...but to public response.

Again...would you like to debate this topic in a structured format (Debate Forum)?



posted on May, 27 2010 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by MemoryShock
Want to debate whether or not it was a hoax?
There's nothing to debate.

  1. A man makes a claim
  2. Someone publishes that claim and makes a big deal about it.
  3. The public panics, and laws are passed
  4. The man admits his claim was a fraud

Those are each facts that cannot be disputed.

Like kinda kurious, I have worked in video production... more specifically, I've worked in the quality-control aspect of video production where my job was finding the 1/30th of a second encoding or mastering errors on DVDs.

At 1/24 or 1/30, the conscious brain is perfectly capable of recognizing that there's something there that wasn't there the frame before or the frame after. At the video playback rate of normal movies or television broadcast, it is highly unlikely that something could be snuck past the viewer.

Now they might not be able to read what it says, and guess what, their subconscious can't either. Persistence of vision, field of view, selective focus, etc. But they'll recognize that they saw something that didn't belong.

For grins, find a copy of The Wizard of Speed and Time. Watch it once, then watch it again frame by frame...



posted on May, 27 2010 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton
  • A man makes a claim
  • Someone publishes that claim and makes a big deal about it.
  • The public panics, and laws are passed
  • The man admits his claim was a fraud
    Those are each facts that cannot be disputed.


  • Very subjective those facts may be. They speak nothing of the motivation behind each event and as well neither prove that the experiment occurred or not. Many people recant upon public reaction...and subliminals have been proven effective...are they one hundred percent? Nope, not without some other supporting subtlties and contextual attentions...but they can be used.

    C'est La Vie...I would have enjoyed the debate.



    posted on May, 27 2010 @ 09:28 PM
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    sub·lim·i·nal:adj.
    1. Below the threshold of conscious perception.
    2. Inadequate to produce conscious awareness but able to evoke a response.

    Its a pretty subjective term, what one person perceives another may not. But the overwhelming majority of advertisements are designed to appeal to our reptilian brain (isopraxic, preservative, re-enactment, tropistic, and deceptive), and to me, that constitutes a negative, and as it is directed at our subconscious I think it qualifies as subliminal.

    It doesn't have to be a flashed frame in film to be considered subliminal, and I think anyone who disagrees with this, is taking a majorly narrow approach to the whole thing.

    There's that new diet-coke ad, where there is a whole bunch of female puppets at work in an office, who begin dancing and drinking diet-coke they just bought from a vending machine. Does that not contain subliminal content? Especially when considering the context that 85% of people wouldn't be able to give an adequate definition of the word 'subliminal' when asked.



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