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Accused Illegal Immigrant Rapes 12-yr old girl - Raleigh

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posted on May, 24 2010 @ 12:15 AM
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I am STAUNCHLY against Illegal Immigration. Started a few threads on the subject...got a lot of flags this week.

With that said, this thread is ill formed. Is the fallacy that only Illegal Immigrants rape? Or is the fallacy that ALL Immigrants rape? Or is it that we must get rid of Illegals because "they rape kids"? I have no clue what the intent here is.

What about all the Pedos in UTAH? What about all the Pedos that are Americans? Catholic Church ring a bell? Vatican scandal? Sex Trade?

There are so many FACT BASED reasons to oppose Illegal Immigration, why swing for the fallacy fences with a thread like this?

Cmon people, this isn't helping....GEEZ




posted on May, 24 2010 @ 12:15 AM
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www.wnd.com...

" Schurman-Kauflin, who runs the Violent Crimes Institute in Atlanta, participated in a 12-month, in-depth study of illegal immigrants who committed sex crimes and murders from January 1999 through April 2006. The study found approximately 240,000 illegal-immigrant sex offenders reside in the United States – while 93 sex offenders and 12 serial sexual offenders come across U.S. borders illegally every day."

"Deborah Schurman-Kauflin, a Ph.D. researcher of violent crimes, told WorldNetDaily, "It appears as if there is a fear that if this is honestly discussed, people will hate all illegal immigrants. So there is silence. … But in being silent about the rapes and murders, it is as if the victims never even existed."

It is the silence that perpetuates ignorance. This isn't about race.
There are countless victoms of rape by illegal immigrants. Are we racist for looking out for our citizens safety? Because someone wishes to discuss the dangers of illegals, pro illegal people jump to conclusions thinking we hate other cultures and lump all illegals into one group. Common sense tells us that not all illegals are rapists or that all illegals are murderers etc. There is a huge problem though and it should not be swept under the rug.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 12:16 AM
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Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by hackbart
Banned because you use this tragic event for furthering
your agenda. You are simply disgusting.

I guess it is ok to insult people on this thread now.
What happened to manners and decorum??

No, what is disgusting is that this tragic event
could have been prevented and wasn't
(providing he is an illegal immigrant
AND the girl is telling the truth AND
the article is true)

did I leave anything out for those politically
correct people???

And also some of you actually taking up
for this ALLEGED criminal, it appears as though
you have an agenda of your own.


This whole thread is an insult to you. Me saying that you are disgusting is just the truth.

And no, it couldn't have been prevented by deporting him, because then he would have raped a girl in his home country. Would that be any better? Is that what you are trying to tell us? Would it have been any better, if the kid was mexican?



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 12:16 AM
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Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa
It's in the first line: "If we were enforcing immigration laws, this probably would not have happened".

yes I said that and I meant it
so what's your point?

If we had been enforcing oil rig regulations
that spill in the gulf might not have happened either.

Bad Consequences CAN be avoided in some areas
with proper prevention and enforcing rules, regulations
and laws.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 12:18 AM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 12:19 AM
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Why didn't the OP start with something like:

"Another trend among Illegal Immigrants....RAPE"

Then give stats for the trend of rapists among Illegal Immigrants, and explain how it is higher than average for it's demographic...then give a few articles about rapes by Illegal Immigrants, etc.

You just vaguely started the thread, gave a snippet of news, and gave a short vague post.

It just looks hyperbolic....sorry.

[edit on 24-5-2010 by Prove_It_NOW]



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 12:21 AM
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Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa
It's in the first line: "If we were enforcing immigration laws, this probably would not have happened".

yes I said that and I meant it
so what's your point?

If we had been enforcing oil rig regulations
that spill in the gulf might not have happened either.

Bad Consequences CAN be avoided in some areas
with proper prevention and enforcing rules, regulations
and laws.


The difference being, we KNOW that lax regulation enforcement caused the oil spill. We DON'T know that the rapist was here illegally. You're injecting that information into a situation where it doesn't belong for no reason other than to cast further aspersion on a group of people. There is NO information to indicate this man is illegal. If he isn't illegal, securing the border wouldn't have made this crime any less likely to have occured.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 12:23 AM
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Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa
reply to post by nenothtu
 


I think you're missing the poster's point. They were trying to show that there is a GIANT leap in logic between "event A" (the immigration) and "event B" (the rape). Suggesting that unrelated event A is a direct precursor to event B is illogical, as it ignores all the events in between that would not have been prevented by preventing event A. To commit a rape requires a certain mentality, which following immigration protocol would not have screened out, most likely. So, whether he immigrated here legally or illegally doesn't really factor into this situation anymore than being a high school dropout factors into a similar rape being committed.


No, I didn't miss any 'point'. There WAS no point, other than trying to hide the issue behind a smoke screen, as I pretty clearly indicated.

Unless, of course, you're insinuating that this individual can somehow rape children here while he himself is still in his home country, without having to sneak in here?

Otherwise, yeah, there's a pretty clear correlation between our government failing to prevent entry, and his ability to rape a child here. Yeah, I'm 'ignoring all events in between', since they may not have been rapes of a child, or at the very least have not yet been shown to have been. I'm concentrating on the 'illegal' beginning and 'illegal' end, and find a commonality - the 'illegal' part.

To be honest, I don't much care if this guy was a high school dropout or not, since that's not an illegal action here, and if it is in his home country, then they ought to be looking to that there. So no, being a high school dropout is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

It was just an attempt at smoke screening.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 12:28 AM
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And dude, you linked to a 5 line 'article'....and it didn't even say he was an "Illegal"...is it that hard to read half a paragraph?

I understand the hatred against Illegal Immigration...I'm right there too. But at least try to be factual about things.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 12:29 AM
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Originally posted by hackbart
This whole thread is an insult to you. Me saying that
you are disgusting is just the truth.

And no, it couldn't have been prevented by deporting him, because then he would have raped a girl in his home country. Would that be any better? Is that what you are trying to tell us? Would it have been any better, if the kid was mexican?


well I find you disgusting as well
and THAT'S the truth

and how do you know it couldn't have been prevented?
Please post your source for that statement
AND how do you know he would have raped
a child in Mexico???
geez, talking about speculation !!!
ur on a roll.

What happens in Mexico is none of my concern.
What happens around the corner from my house
IS my concern.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 12:51 AM
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reply to post by Night Star
 


The famous WND stats

Let's take a look.


Please note: This study of illegal immigrants who committed sex crimes in the U.S. was NOT funded by anyone or any group. As a working profiler, I wondered what the statistics were regarding these crimes. I could not find any studies that discussed these offenses and the profile of the offenders, so I did the research myself. Additionally, I was not paid for publishing the results.


www.drdsk.com...

This is from her site and shows that she picked the cases she wanted to look into. She came to her conclusion based on 1500 cases. Then she relied on 12,000,000 illegals in country and an ICE figure that 2% of illegals that are apprehended are sex offenders. Then she multiplies 12 million times 2% to get her numbers.

Fuzzy Math indeed.


Based on her article, Schurman-Kauflin apparently performed the following calculation:


12,000,000 (Estimated illegal immigrant population in the U.S.)

x 0.02 (Estimated proportion of apprehended illegal immigrants who were apprehended for sex offenses)

= 240,000 (Illegal immigrant sex offenders in the U.S.)



While it may be true that sex offenders represent 2 percent of illegal immigrants apprehended in the United States, apprehended illegal immigrants constitute only a slim minority of the estimated total illegal immigrant population of 12,000,000. The most recent GAO data on illegal immigrants incarcerated at the federal, state, and local levels puts the total at approximately 270,000. If 2 percent of this population consists of sex offenders, then the total number of sex offenders would be 5,400.

Neither the "A Line in the Sand" report nor its source document gives any indication how the apparently inflated number of illegal immigrant sex offenders corresponds with the "105 sexual predators" figure beyond making the assertion that the unsubstantiated data "translates to 93 sex offenders and 12 serial sexual offenders coming across U.S. borders illegally per day." From Schurman-Kauflin's article, footnoted in "A Line in the Sand":


colorado.mediamatters.org...



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 01:03 AM
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Originally posted by tauempire


Quit defending these parasites. Thats what they are...a damn parasite. Im fine with LEGAL immigration. But i hate ILLEGALS. why because they take everything from this country and give nothing back.

ILLEGAL immigrants=parasite scum


I like where your head is at! PSYCH!
Look, I'm tired of people saying that they give nothing back to the corporation (oops I meant country) and whatnot, but I've seen many many checks that clearly show a deduction of the illegal's money; and where does that money go? That's right, the government!

illegal made $650 in one week.
$30 was the deduction.
there are 1500 contractors all with a lot of illegals.
okay now let's say that each of these 1500 contractors only has one illegal(BS! They have way more than that! TRUST ME! I WOULD KNOW! ;]) the deduction is $30.
1500x$30=$45000 NOW THAT'S IN JUST A WEEK!
$45000x4=$180,000 a month!
$180000x12=$2,160,000 a year goes to the government! And that is just from one illegal for 1500 contractors!!!!!



All illegals are not "parasite scum"!


My condolences to the little girl and the family.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 01:14 AM
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Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by hackbart
This whole thread is an insult to you. Me saying that
you are disgusting is just the truth.

And no, it couldn't have been prevented by deporting him, because then he would have raped a girl in his home country. Would that be any better? Is that what you are trying to tell us? Would it have been any better, if the kid was mexican?


well I find you disgusting as well
and THAT'S the truth

and how do you know it couldn't have been prevented?
Please post your source for that statement
AND how do you know he would have raped
a child in Mexico???
geez, talking about speculation !!!
ur on a roll.

What happens in Mexico is none of my concern.
What happens around the corner from my house
IS my concern.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 01:36 AM
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holy christ what a mess this turned out to be. well i'm partly responsible for this so the least i can do i to try and salvage this thread from the newcomers.

the original problem was a misundertanding from maria stardust that the OP somehow held a grudge against illegals in regards (specifically) to this case. whether or not she was right or wrong isn't the point.

she went on to state that the background of the perp was meaningless. she was obviously defending illegals for whatever purpose she had in mind.

i stated how that viewpoint is utterly ridiculous and nothing but a purely emotional response.

other moderators and friends "mysteriously" appeared to gang up on anyone that isn't a staunch supporter of illegals raping US citizens and from there it's led to total chaos.

whatever, have fun confusing yourselves people. i'd say it was a pleasure to read the comments but it seriously wasn't. one *snip* even said teh OP should be banned. hahahaha wow that's rich. jesus...



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 01:54 AM
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Originally posted by Spazzy
she was obviously defending illegals for whatever purpose she had in mind.



other moderators and friends "mysteriously" appeared to gang up on anyone that isn't a staunch supporter of illegals raping US citizens and from there it's led to total chaos.


Please provide the quotations where either of these occurred.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 01:58 AM
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reply to post by VneZonyDostupa
 


you mean so you don't have to go read it yourself?

huh, what?



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 02:01 AM
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Yes, this is bad. However, this will always happen with or without illegals. Infact, I can confidently say that while she was being raped, atleast 2 other underage girls were being raped by people that are legal citizens of this country. I can also say with even more confidence that tomorrow I won't visit ATS and see the headline "Legal US Citizen Raped 12yo Girl!"



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 02:05 AM
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reply to post by maria_stardust
 


Have you ever volunteered at a women's shelter? I have.

Have you ever worked the phone lines for victims of sexual assault or domestic violence? I have.

Have you ever dealt first hand with a woman who was forcibly raped and beaten? I have.


these responses to my post up above only show that you have some sort of superiority complex, without even knowing who i am or what i do, or for that matter of fact what i do as a profession you assume i never done any one of these things above. if your motivation for volunteering is to have a moral chip on your shoulder i think you are doing it for the wrong reasons. ive spent years in refugee camps in asia feeding the abused from wars, rape and domestic abuse were just some of the crimes



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 02:06 AM
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Well, I'm rather confused. I intend no disrespect or offense with this post, and I respect everyone's right to hold their opinion. That said, I need some clarification.

OP, you said:



If we were enforcing immigration laws,
this probably would not have happened.

Clear evidence of why we need to deport
illegal immigrants. Except in this case,
execute him first.

This isn't just an AZ problem
but a nationwide problem !!!


That was your first statement regarding the article in question. However, as others have pointed out, the article did not establish that the alleged perpetrator was in fact an illegal immigrant or not.

Then you said:



maybe you didn't see the part where it said "ACCUSED".


Yes, you did say "accused." However you then went on to say that this "accusation" is clear evidence of why we need to deport legal immigrants, and that the person in question should be executed. In addition, when someone else stated that rape is not a crime exclusive to illegal immigrants, you also stated:


but in THIS case it was


and:



IN THIS CASE

the un-enforced laws of the U.S.
harmed this girl and her family.


Can you explain to me these seemingly contradictory posts? Again, I'm not trying to invalidate your opinion or attack you. I'm just asking for clarification. You stated that in this case lax enforcement of immigration laws harmed this girl and her family, and that in this case the crime was committed by an illegal immigrant, yet you also stated that they are only allegedly a criminal and only allegedly here illegally. Do you hold both views simultaneously? (You have the right to if you want to. I'm just asking.)

Only later did you begin to include qualifiers in your posts:



this tragic event
could have been prevented and wasn't
(providing he is an illegal immigrant
AND the girl is telling the truth AND
the article is true)


Someone subsequently tried to make a point and ask what was in my opinion a valid question by asking whether a highschool drop out raping someone made them being a highschool drop out relevant to the rape, as an analogy for their legal citizenship status being relevant to the rape in this case or not. Your reply was:



dropping out of High School is NOT illegal
at least it's not in NC if you're over 16 yrs old.
So that example is quite moot.

Being in the country without permission
IS ILLEGAL.


Are you saying that the rape by the highschool drop out could not be avoided because there was no law being broken that could be enforced to stop it? That might be the case. I am open to the possibility. Although, I would bear in mind that rape itself if of course a crime. So with that in mind, I have a different analogy: Suppose someone has a lot of traffic violations, and they never pay their tickets. The number of unpaid fines rises to the level sufficient to impose a brief period of imprisonment. They then rape a child before being imprisoned. If we had enforced those laws more effectively or sooner, the child might not have been raped. My questions are:

Is the cause of the rape that a traffic violator was not in jail, or that they are a violent sex offender? Do you have statistics demonstrating that rape is more common among illegal immigrants than any other demographic present within the United States? Is it possible that the person in this analogy might still have been raped by someone under different circumstances? Would you post here about that rape as well?

I assume that you are equally incensed by the rape of any child by anyone, illegal immigrant or not. So my final questions are: Why do you not post regarding news articles detailing other rapes reported? Why is this particular one involving an alleged illegal immigrant more relevant in your opinion than any other rape?


Originally posted by paranoiaFTW
I can also say with even more confidence that tomorrow I won't visit ATS and see the headline "Legal US Citizen Raped 12yo Girl!"


Is that the case, OP?

This is not an attempt to vilify you or cast your posts in a disingenuous light, and I do respect your opinions and your right to them, even if I might disagree with them. (I won't know whether I do disagree entirely for certain until you answer these questions.)

[edit on 5/24/2010 by AceWombat04]



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 02:15 AM
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Seems we have a potential double negative situation here.....some sicko is accused of one of the worst forms of crime: crime against innocent children. Coupled with the possibility of the accused being in country, unlawfully. If either, or both turn out to be fact, I pray justice is equal to the crime. Nothing more, nothing less.



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