Revelation; The Woman in Heaven, page 5

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reply posted on 15-9-2011 @ 11:23 AM by DISRAELI

Originally posted by colbe
Calling someone pure is not calling them a God.

I called the Immaculate Heart "another god", within the meaning of the first commandment, because it is so blatantly the object of a veneration which amounts to worship. All the energy that you're putting into promoting this message rather proves my point.

We have already agreed a couple of weeks ago that the "woman" figure at the end of ch12 represents God's people.
But the woman at the beginning of ch12 is the same woman that appears at the end of the chapter.
Therefore the woman at the beginning of ch12 represents God's people.
Quod erat demonstrandum. What could be simpler?

Also the woman in ch12 is fairly obviously the counterpart of the woman in ch17, who is clearly a representative figure rather than an individual. I have already pointed out that these two women are the two halves of the "woman" in Jeremiah ch4 vv30-31, who represents Jerusalem. She is a Harlot who is in the middle of giving birth- the woman in ch17 has inherited the first point, the woman of ch12 has inherited the second.
Thus the two women of Revelation both represent God's people. One is the faithful version, the other is the unfaithful version.

edit on 15-9-2011 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 16-9-2011 @ 02:53 AM by colbe

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by colbe
Calling someone pure is not calling them a God.

I called the Immaculate Heart "another god", within the meaning of the first commandment, because it is so blatantly the object of a veneration which amounts to worship. All the energy that you're putting into promoting this message rather proves my point.

We have already agreed a couple of weeks ago that the "woman" figure at the end of ch12 represents God's people.
But the woman at the beginning of ch12 is the same woman that appears at the end of the chapter.
Therefore the woman at the beginning of ch12 represents God's people.
Quod erat demonstrandum. What could be simpler?

Also the woman in ch12 is fairly obviously the counterpart of the woman in ch17, who is clearly a representative figure rather than an individual. I have already pointed out that these two women are the two halves of the "woman" in Jeremiah ch4 vv30-31, who represents Jerusalem. She is a Harlot who is in the middle of giving birth- the woman in ch17 has inherited the first point, the woman of ch12 has inherited the second.
Thus the two women of Revelation both represent God's people. One is the faithful version, the other is the unfaithful version.

edit on 15-9-2011 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

DISREALI,

I said from the beginning, the person constantly referred to as the "woman" in Scripture is Our Lord's mother.
Mary, Queen of Heaven and Earth is the "woman" with the crown of twelve stars in Revelation 12:1. John
described Mary in his last sentence in Chapter 11. Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant in Heaven.

A lessor meaning can be the Church, God's people. No more rehashing for me. Take care. To end, about your first comment, veneration and worship do not mean the same thing.

blessings,

reply posted on 16-9-2011 @ 04:37 AM by DISRAELI

Originally posted by colbe
I said from the beginning, the person constantly referred to as the "woman" in Scripture is Our Lord's mother.
Mary,

Yes, and I answered you from the beginning, giving reasons, which you have not dealt with. See my previous post.The woman at the beginning of ch12 is the same woman as the one at the end of the chapter, and so forth.

Queen of Heaven and Earth is the "woman" with the crown of twelve stars in Revelation 12:1. John
described Mary in his last sentence in Chapter 11. Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant in Heaven.

In fact ch12 v1 does not follow on directly from the end of ch11, because chs 12&13 are a "flashback" sequence. They take the story back to a period before the opening of the first chapter- including, obviously, the birth of Christ. In the actual sequence of events, the real sequel to ch11 v19 is ch 15v1. If we're watching these events unfold, the appearance of the seven angels with golden bowls is really the next thing that happens after the seventh trumpet. The seventh trumpet is blown to announce their coming.

veneration and worship do not mean the same thing.

All the "promotion" of Mary in the Cathiolic church, including your own, is sufficient evidence that she is being elevated as an object of worship. Try giving up doing it. You can't? Well, that proves my point.

reply posted on 16-9-2011 @ 05:21 AM by BroketheWall

Check out this video...its about elenin and the symbolic nature of revelations as well the signs and wonders of astonomy and the zodiac in the next few months. Im not christian but I am a student of the bible. I dont believe everything this guy says but the first couple of minutes has good info...
www.youtube.com...#/watch?v=Oa2DgcTzcGE

reply posted on 16-9-2011 @ 06:18 AM by Dalke07

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply posted on 16-9-2011 @ 11:26 AM by DISRAELI

reply to post by BroketheWall

Thank you for that contribution, I suppose.
I won't be watching that video, I'm afraid, because I don't watch videos. They are a time-intensive and therefore inefficient way of commmunicating information. I prefer to get my information from written text, which means I can read through it quickly and then have time available for checking out other sources of information.
By the way, if you want anyone else to watch the video, you will need to amend the link.

It is probably a mistake to invest much interest in Elenin. All of us will know in a couple of weeks, it seems fairly certain, that the Elenin hype had nothing in it.
In this series I've been treating Revelation as a sequential narrative, told in symbolic terms, without involving the signs of the zodiac at all, and I think that yields a better interpretation.

edit on 16-9-2011 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 16-9-2011 @ 01:20 PM by DISRAELI

reply to post by Dalke07

Thank you for that link.
I note your thread, but I think your theory about the "sign in heaven" involves a couple of mistaken assumptions.

One is that the "sign" is something predicted to be seen by the world at large. I don't think that's what John means.Rather it is something that John himself sees during the course of his visions. In just the same way he sees the great throne in heaven in ch4, and he sees the great Harlot in ch17. "Seeing" these things is the way that he receives the message, but there's no suggestion of any expectation that the world in general will see things of that shape.

Also you assume that the "sign in heaven" is a prediction for the future, something that we can expect, and I think that's a mistake as well. The next thing that happens in ch12 is the birth of Christ, and this is an event in the past, not the future. In fact the best way to understand ch12 is as part of a "flashback" sequence, which takes the story back to a period before the beginning of the first chapter. As in the case of movie "flashbacks", the purpose of it is to explain the background to the main narrative.

The key to understanding Revelation is to take the story as a whole, rather than selecting small fragments and trying to interpret them on their own. I strongly recommend reading through the rest of my series, You will find an index to them at this location;

Revelation Index

edit on 16-9-2011 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 16-9-2011 @ 01:42 PM by onequestion

reply to post by colbe

As above so below.

Basically what that means is, is the woman in heaven takes on 2 meanings, she has a symbolic reference to whats going on on earth, as well as having a symbolic reference as to whats happening in heaven. IE;

A governing body on earth.

A sentient being in heaven.

It would also imply that the symbolic meaning of the 2 are similar in function probably? Mybe it could also mean that their jobs serve the same propose. At least along these lines.

reply posted on 21-9-2011 @ 03:52 AM by colbe

Thanks for the replies. I thought of this thread again. To share, a Youtube, it's 11 minutes long. Take the time to watch. Mary...as we read of her in Scripture.

www.youtube.com...

reply posted on 25-9-2011 @ 08:11 PM by colbe

A foreshadowing in Scripture of who Mary is...there are three:

Mary is the "New Eve."

Mary is the "Ark of the New Covenant"

Mary is "Queen"

www.youtube.com...

reply posted on 22-5-2012 @ 12:55 PM by DISRAELI

Just to clarify;
Nothing in the OP is intended to suggest any particular prophetic significance in the year 2012 or the date 21/12/2012

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