17 States Now Filing Versions of Arizona bill

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by consigliere
terrorism(people of color),healthcare reform(IMO the uproar was regarding helping the downtrodden,,,which in this country is OVERWHELMINGLY colored" and now immigration(people of color)
so how am i or any other poster making this a racist issue,,,,will any white americans be effected?

The fact that the terrorist in this case happened to be from the middle east, and hence were darker complected, is irrelevant.








[edit on 26-5-2010 by Illusionsaregrander]

[edit on 27-5-2010 by consigliere]

Originally posted by WXBackdoor
First you are against a police-state.

Now you are FOR Police-state.

Facepalm.

Americans are the most gullible-flip/flop , easy-to-manipulate people in the whole world.


[edit on 22-5-2010 by WXBackdoor]

I can't believe what I'm seeing / reading also.

Good Post.

reply to post by consigliere



[edit on 27-5-2010 by consigliere]

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


again i will ask the question
Will this law effect white americans?
you cant sway me with referrences to european immigration,,,were talking about america,,,apples to apples
how are you a member on ATS actually BELIEVING TPTB with blaming middle eastern men for 9/11,,,WHY ARE YOU HERE????? obviously not to get to the truth!
also mexico is 1/3 its original size,,,your sittin on the other 2/3rds of their country!
now in the interest of fairness,,,as soon as one white american is questioned regarding their citizenship(cause like you said,it isnt an issue of color,but lawful citizenship) ,,,then the law CAN NOT be deemed biggoted/racist,,,but seriously is that gonna happen,,,you know,,,"hey blond haired,blue eyed caucasion,you could be here illegally from the UK or somethin,,,papers please" OOOOOKAAAAY possible,sure,probable,,,,ABSOLUTELY NOT!
im not gonna argue with you biggots anymore,,,we all know the definition of insanity.

So we can give police the power to carry a weapon and take a life if necessary, but they can't have the same power as the border patrol? That's all this legislation does...it gives them the same power as the border patrol...people who are against this law actually need to read the bill...And why oh why are Americans fighting to allow illegal immigrants to stay in this country??? This makes absolutely no sense to me. Go and live in AZ for a few weeks and see how overrun the state is with illegals taking jobs and social services away from hardworking (and unemployed) Americans...and this problem is not just occuring in AZ. AZ is just the first state to actually have the guts to stand up and do something to try to stop it.

[edit on 27-5-2010 by Piper96]

reply to post by consigliere


BTW there happen to be MANY blonde haired blue-eyed mexicans...just f.y.i.

[edit on 27-5-2010 by Piper96]

Originally posted by KilluminatisRex
reply to post by TheCoffinman

 

PLEASE PEOPLE !!!! WARNING WARNING WARNING!!!!

EVERYONE LISTEN AND SPREAD THE WORD. The legislation to sign these bills is designed to cause protests and riots to give an excuse for a tighter marshall law then we already have! These large protests are being promoted by the very same people who enacted these laws. And when they saw how well and how big the riots were in AZ. They knew they had to get their own verison of the law to cause chaos and disorder. THIS IS THE TRUTH whether you like it or not. All disinformers refrain from lying or speaking about this unknowingly or untruthfully. DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS IN A NEGATIVE WAY, IF ALL STATES PROTEST ITS MARTIAL LAW FOR THIS NATION. MASS ARRESTS PROBABLE.

Dude seriously you are such a troll. It's not going to lead to marshal law. Its only affecting the illegals and so all the illegals are protesting because they like spending our money and taking craps on our front lawn and not having to pay a cent in taxes and not allowing legal immigrants to get over. And what to the illegals do with that money they have left over? they send it back to there family and then they come over. That's how it began, when a few illegals found how to abuse and disobey the law and get away with it then word spread and know we have millions of illegals taking the jobs away from good paying tax paying citizens and legal immigrants because illegals do it for less but because they get around taxes and other things they can accumulate tens of thousand of dollars a year. And all these high up businesses that higher illegals realize that if they lose the illegals then they would actually have to pay fair wages. And you know that is hard on multi-million and billion dollar business owners because its just unfair to pay minimum wage when you can get it done for less illegally.

So the only real people complaining are the Big Businesses that higher illegals and the illegals themselves because they don't want to come legal and want to be able to make us citizens pull the extra weight of taxes they won't pay. Seriously there is no Marshall law you are just a paranoid schizophrenic, all the law states is the police are going to anyone that they think has probable suspicion that might be illegal and they will ask for ID or something that proves that they are legal, if they are but don't have anything that proves they are legal they will just make a quick check on your info to see if you are an illegal or not. Its not going to deal with riot shields and tear gas making giant prisons to put millions of people in, gez get over yourself.

Police do the same thing in drugs and violence, if there is probable suspicion they have the right to search, if you are hiding pot in your car and/or house and they smell it they have the right to search your house without a warrant. Seriously we have illegals standing in front of home depot loitering in California but if a cop tries to tell them to move or ask for Green Cards they pull the racism card. If they make this law for California the police can now do it without being afraid of illegals sewing them on racism when its not its the illegals that are racist.

Originally posted by Piper96
reply to post by consigliere

 

BTW there happen to be MANY blonde haired blue-eyed mexicans...just f.y.i.

[edit on 27-5-2010 by Piper96]

Many? To be fair - - if you are born in Mexico - you are Mexican. Just like if you are born in America - you are American.

However - - being of Mexican heritage/descent is different - - technically you are Spanish/Native "people"/ & maybe French. You would be half caucasian and half mongoloid.

Then there are the Spaniards - - you know - the real ones from Spain. Who the Aztec's thought was the return of the White God.

Originally posted by Piper96
Go and live in AZ for a few weeks and see how overrun the state is with illegals taking jobs and social services away from hardworking (and unemployed) Americans...and this problem is not just occuring in AZ. AZ is just the first state to actually have the guts to stand up and do something to try to stop it.

I live in Arizona.

I know I'm gonna hear you complain about the price of foods and other agricultural products in the near future.

Crops have been lost to weather & freezing. To oil spills. And to lack of workers to harvest.

Feel free to Google how much money & crops have been lost to lack of workers.

American jobs? Only if welfare and all other sub programs are eliminated - - that Americans must work or starve.

reply to post by Annee


It does not take MILLIONS of illegals to harvest crops.
Just because the illegals will work for slave wages and allow themsleves to be unworthy of standards such as minumum wage, does not make an American lazy. We have laws that protect us from such things.

I have yet to meet an illegal who was starving. Go to some places in Africa and you will see what starving is.

Many of the illegals that are here have no intentions of becoming legal citizens. They come right out and tell you. They take jobs away from citizens all over the U.S.A, steal identities, present false documentations, etc.

Originally posted by Night Star
reply to post by Annee

 

It does not take MILLIONS of illegals to harvest crops.
Just because the illegals will work for slave wages and allow themsleves to be unworthy of standards such as minumum wage, does not make an American lazy. We have laws that protect us from such things.

Just curious - do you live in an agricultural area?
Have you driven along our southern border on the Mexican side?
Have you actually been to Somalia or Haiti or any of these places you speak of?

I am not against immigration laws. Show me where I have said that.
I am for regulated wages.
I am for a legal work exchange.

Laws are useless for the self righteous - - if there is no food - or food becomes so expensive many can not afford it.

What can I say to those who turn a blind eye to the reality of the vastness of the chain of events - - that are already occurring.

______beforeitsnews/story/50/872/Arizona_Has_Become_Contagious.html

For a state that has been harshly demonized over the past month for stepping up where the Feds have miserably failed, Arizona sure has become the shining beacon on the top of the hill for other states that have been struggling with illegal immigrants. North Carolina is now one of 20 states joining the fray where legislation has been introduced requiring resident aliens to carry proof of citizenship on them.

Senator Don East, a Surry Republican, introduced his resolution, S1349, this week to consider legislation that requires immigrants carry identification that proves they’re in the country legally. Twelve Republican senators, including Senator Bob Rucho of Matthews and Austin M. Allran of Hickory, have signed on to co-sponsor the resolution

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Night Star
reply to post by Annee

 

It does not take MILLIONS of illegals to harvest crops.
Just because the illegals will work for slave wages and allow themsleves to be unworthy of standards such as minumum wage, does not make an American lazy. We have laws that protect us from such things.

Just curious - do you live in an agricultural area?
Have you driven along our southern border on the Mexican side?
Have you actually been to Somalia or Haiti or any of these places you speak of?

I am not against immigration laws. Show me where I have said that.
I am for regulated wages.
I am for a legal work exchange.

Laws are useless for the self righteous - - if there is no food - or food becomes so expensive many can not afford it.

What can I say to those who turn a blind eye to the reality of the vastness of the chain of events - - that are already occurring.

Let's be honest shall we?
If those farmers paid a legal wage, they would have all the workers they need. I hire Americans who do jobs as hard or harder then field picking, and I have people begging me for work...sometimes literally.

Farming is a for profit business just like any other and over the years, for some reason, it's become acceptable to use illegal labor to increase those profits.

Food rotting in the fields is by choice because of subsidies or the farmers want to drive the prices up. If they didn't want the food to rot, they could do want some do and advertise a "pick your own" option which is VERY profitable.

So in other words, farmers aren't forced to hire illegal labor to keep food prices down.

Secure the border. Crack down hard on employers. Enforce existing law. This will stop the foreign invasion.

The majority of the American people have made it clear that they want this to happen. But don't expect the criminals in Washington to act any time soon.

[edit on 28-5-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

Originally posted by jfj123

Let's be honest shall we?
If those farmers paid a legal wage, they would have all the workers they need. I hire Americans who do jobs as hard or harder then field picking, and I have people begging me for work...sometimes literally.

Have you ever done field picking? Do you know temps get up to 120 degrees?

Do you honestly know how much field workers are paid?

I can tell you this is creating a black market. Where pickers used to be loyal to specific farmers - - they now go to who ever will pay the most. If a picker is really good/fast and can supervise - - it creates under-the-table black market cash wars.

Oh I am sure many of the pickers are legitimate Americans. But only occasionally have I seen a "white" American in the fields. Usually a college kid on summer break.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

And again - - I am not against laws - - but in this case the picture is much much bigger.

Those with the mindset of "send every one back over the border and lock the border" - - - have no reality of "tomorrow".

Originally posted by jfj123


Farming is a for profit business just like any other and over the years, for some reason, it's become acceptable to use illegal labor to increase those profits.

Food rotting in the fields is by choice because of subsidies or the farmers want to drive the prices up. If they didn't want the food to rot, they could do want some do and advertise a "pick your own" option which is VERY profitable.

So in other words, farmers aren't forced to hire illegal labor to keep food prices down.

I really hate to post anything from the internet - - but . . . www.lsu.edu...

THE SEASONAL GUEST-WORKER PROGRAM

In May of 2006 President Bush was able to pass some legislation that created a seasonal worker program. This program allows people from Mexico to obtain temporary legal residence within the United States while they perform work for American labor contractors. . . .

Preston subsequently reported that farmers blamed the seasonal guest-worker program that is currently in place. They expressed that the major drawback to the program was that is requires the employers to prove that they had tried to hire American workers first and that the process is too lengthy to be effective. According to Preston, “over the years, occasional programs to draw American workers to the harvests have failed.

‘Americans do not raise their children to be farm workers,’ Ms. Hallstrom said” This newspaper report among others like it show the disapproval felt by many farmers towards the United States’ seasonal-guest worker program which was introduced as a way to control illegal immigration. The lack of seasonal workers also revealed just how much the United States’ agriculture industry depends on immigrants. It raised many questions among Americans because even though many people do not want immigrants entering the states illegally, they cannot ignore that their absence hurts the American economy (Preston, 2006)

Originally posted by jfj123

Let's be honest shall we?
If those farmers paid a legal wage, they would have all the workers they need. I hire Americans who do jobs as hard or harder then field picking, and I have people begging me for work...sometimes literally.

Amen. I started my work career as a laborer. Out in the hot sun, with a pick and shovel digging ground so hard the back hoes had to slam the bucket into it to get their teeth into it.

Americans are willing to work, and its utter bull# to pretend that we are too pampered to work hard, or work dangerous.

Supply and demand set price. If you allow a flood of illegal labor into your country, the jobs they are capable of doing will see wages fall dramatically. If companies had to play by the rules, and only use American labor, those jobs would see wages hit the fair market value.

We can afford as a country to pay fair wages for menial work. The whole idea that, "Oh noes! We would all starve if we had to pay farm laborers fair wages" is ridiculous. You would eventually see a fairer distribution of wealth among the classes, instead of the insane differentials we see today, that are only increasing.

The problem with many of you is that you are self interested, (as everyone is) but you cannot differentiate your long term self interest, (higher wages and better quality of life) from your short term self interest (cheap products right now.)

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

The problem with many of you is that you are self interested, (as everyone is) but you cannot differentiate your long term self interest, (higher wages and better quality of life) from your short term self interest (cheap products right now.)

To be clear. I am not in agriculture. I am retired from corporate Los Angeles. Those I have discussions with are in various higher levels of agriculture. I don't speak Spanish. I am not talking to the field workers.

I do know some farm owners also have farms in Mexico and are in the process of moving their entire operations south. You think we have E Coli breakouts now - just wait. Lettuce for one - is harvested and boxed for shipment direct from the field.

By the way - this pic was taken from my front porch




[edited for photo]

[edit on 28-5-2010 by Annee]

Originally posted by Annee

To be clear. I am not in agriculture. I am retired from corporate Los Angeles. Those I have discussions with are in various higher levels of agriculture. I don't speak Spanish. I am not talking to the field workers.

With all due respect, the opinions of those who profit from using illegal labor are bound to be biased.

And with equal respect, it has been my personal experience that someone occupying a higher level in a business CAN mean that they are more qualified, more intelligent, etc., but it isnt necessarily the case that that is so.

Our educational system rewards memorization, not thinking, not reasoning, and ass kissing and nepotism have as much or more to do with who rises and who falls in a given organization as intellect does. So just the fact that the people you speak with on these topics occupy "higher levels" means nothing to me.

The position they occupy is no guarantee that they have actually thought through what they are saying. Its no guarantee of competence. Business in general has a strong tendency to follow trends and fads and repeat mindlessly "truisms" that have nothing to do with reasoned truth.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by Annee

To be clear. I am not in agriculture. I am retired from corporate Los Angeles. Those I have discussions with are in various higher levels of agriculture. I don't speak Spanish. I am not talking to the field workers.

With all due respect, the opinions of those who profit from using illegal labor are bound to be biased.

I did not specify who "higher level" is. There are many areas of agriculture - - many to protect the workers.

I AM quite capable of reasoning. I'm pretty sure I can "reason" greedy corporate for monetary gain - - or other.


[edit on 28-5-2010 by Annee]