Why all the Britishphobia in the UK?

JakiusFogg

"But after three generation of your family born in England, and YOu still say you are not English!!??

Well whatever the nationality of your descent go live there then."

"Learn YOUR hertiage."

Ok I'll go back there but first could you please chop me in half and send one half of me to Barbados where my dads family is from and could you please send the other half to France where my mothers family is from. Thanks much appreciated, Barbados has lovely beaches and France has such a sexy sounding language.

And did you seriously just tell me to learn my heritage, oh lord! you're too funny. lol.

As for OP, your post is so contradictory, you are saying in effect that you are not proud to be British because of the way it has degenerated due to all these people from other countries coming over to live and work as British citizens. Why can't you enjoy the best things from other cultures instead of complaining. Sure there are things about other cultures you may not like, there are things that I don't particularly like myself, but you have to accept that not everyone is like you because yes, they come from other countries. A couple of things I really like is Chinese food (come on who doesn't like Chinese food) and just recently I found an Indian musician called Master Saleem who is great, not having listened to that kind of music before. Indian food is great also. If the "foreigners" bring tasty food and music or any kind of cool fashion, dance, sexy sounding languages etc with them, then that's fine with me.

Do "foreigners" integrate? OF COURSE they do, maybe you are to blind to see it. You see what you want to see. Too blind to see that when they become British citizens they work for peanuts all day and night, the kind of money that you wouldn't want to work for, and they work HARD for it. They send their kids to school where their children have no choice but to integrate. I went to a secondary school that had a lot of Muslim, Asian girls and they were lovely, honestly. I remember a teacher telling me that one girl (can't remember what country she came from) saw her dads head literally chopped in half right in front of her, and how he found it so admirable that she came to school and worked hard everyday despite the trauma she had been through.

I live in London, it's very multicultural and that's one reason why I love living where I do. The whole evil Muslim thing is so preschool it's laughable. If there is too much immigration in our country weighing down housing, health services etc then sure maybe they need to start turning people away because obviously we can't take in the rest of the world. But that is all about the practicality of taking in so many people, their culture, religion, is different and should be accepted as part of the package and not hated on. And you also have a grievance with our government and not with the immigrants themselves, they may have knocked on the door but your government were the ones to let them in.

Oh and I forgot to tell you last time in my other rant, I'm VERY proud to be British. One of the reasons why is that our country is multi cultural as I've said and people from all around the world, and I mean tourists as well as those who would love to live here, see it as such and feel welcome here. Why aren't you proud that Britain is a place that so many people want to live in? they feel that way for a reason, and that's because our country is a good country. People who spew hatred is what brings it down, not some people in head scarfs.

Originally posted by Mesdoline
JakiusFogg

"But after three generation of your family born in England, and YOu still say you are not English!!??

Well whatever the nationality of your descent go live there then."

"Learn YOUR hertiage."

Ok I'll go back there but first could you please chop me in half and send one half of me to Barbados where my dads family is from and could you please send the other half to France where my mothers family is from. Thanks much appreciated, Barbados has lovely beaches and France has such a sexy sounding language.

And did you seriously just tell me to learn my heritage, oh lord! you're too funny. lol.

As for OP, your post is so contradictory, you are saying in effect that you are not proud to be British because of the way it has degenerated due to all these people from other countries coming over to live and work as British citizens. Why can't you enjoy the best things from other cultures instead of complaining. Sure there are things about other cultures you may not like, there are things that I don't particularly like myself, but you have to accept that not everyone is like you because yes, they come from other countries. A couple of things I really like is Chinese food (come on who doesn't like Chinese food) and just recently I found an Indian musician called Master Saleem who is great, not having listened to that kind of music before. Indian food is great also. If the "foreigners" bring tasty food and music or any kind of cool fashion, dance, sexy sounding languages etc with them, then that's fine with me.

Do "foreigners" integrate? OF COURSE they do, maybe you are to blind to see it. You see what you want to see. Too blind to see that when they become British citizens they work for peanuts all day and night, the kind of money that you wouldn't want to work for, and they work HARD for it. They send their kids to school where their children have no choice but to integrate. I went to a secondary school that had a lot of Muslim, Asian girls and they were lovely, honestly. I remember a teacher telling me that one girl (can't remember what country she came from) saw her dads head literally chopped in half right in front of her, and how he found it so admirable that she came to school and worked hard everyday despite the trauma she had been through.

I live in London, it's very multicultural and that's one reason why I love living where I do. The whole evil Muslim thing is so preschool it's laughable. If there is too much immigration in our country weighing down housing, health services etc then sure maybe they need to start turning people away because obviously we can't take in the rest of the world. But that is all about the practicality of taking in so many people, their culture, religion, is different and should be accepted as part of the package and not hated on. And you also have a grievance with our government and not with the immigrants themselves, they may have knocked on the door but your government were the ones to let them in.

Oh and I forgot to tell you last time in my other rant, I'm VERY proud to be British. One of the reasons why is that our country is multi cultural as I've said and people from all around the world, and I mean tourists as well as those who would love to live here, see it as such and feel welcome here. Why aren't you proud that Britain is a place that so many people want to live in? they feel that way for a reason, and that's because our country is a good country. People who spew hatred is what brings it down, not some people in head scarfs.

Again you fail to use quotes to back up your argument so in effect, your firing blanks
Many muslims DO NOT intergrate. How is it the Irish came over here at the same time, under the same level of hatred and still managed to intergrate into society? The polish have done exactly the same aswell as the indians and coloureds. but muslims dont. They squash together and cause friction against anything remotly british. For example, their protests of returning soliders. There open undermining of british law and demand of sharia. They desolate areas in order to create muslims ghettos such as in bradford. If i am wrong, then why is the same happening all over europe? Muslims come in and just disregard others culture while favouring their own. Its alot to do with islam.
But nevermind, your defence will always come in the form of calling me a racist because the truth is you dont want to consider what i'm saying you just want to be politically correct and admired for it.
I love my country but i'm pissed off at those that REFUSE to intergrate.
Btw, i'm very aware there are muslims out there that have no problem with intergration and funny enough, alot of white people get on with them while accepting and openly letting them celebrate their religion no questions asked.
And its bad when forierners work for nothing - All they do is keep the minimum wage down. If there is no one to work a job, do they not offer more money so that someone will take up the position? Not of there is a migrant willing to do it.
This whole evil racist white person is getting old now. Why cant you accept that i am white and i have an issue with people that come to this country and dont intergrate? Why should that automaticly make me a racist?

I'm not quoting from your first post because obviously I'd have to copy and paste the whole thing. You say most Muslims do not integrate, I say they do despite it being difficult at times, so we have to agree to differ. Bear in mind that it takes time to integrate when coming to a new country/environment, and people tend to seek out like minded people and group together when they feel vulnerable, making them feel alienated further isn't going to help anyone integrate. It's true that huddling together can give the illusion that they are some kind of wolf pack to those less understanding individuals, the media doesn't help to change that either, they'd rather fuel it at times for whatever political motives they may have, I suspect one reason is so that people like you attack immigrants instead of the government who are choosing how to shape your beloved country, but who don't want to listen to your complaints about how they are going about doing that so divert your attention elsewhere.

Truth is Muslims live and work in Britain just like you and I do and should have the freedom to keep their religion without being demonized for it 24/7 just because a few religious nutcases are running around...ugh pleaseee, like there aren't plenty of those from all religions on this planet.

You said in your last post "They squash together and cause friction against anything remotly british. For example, their protests of returning soliders."

I hope I'm mistaken and you're not actually talking about our soldiers in Iraq, otherwise, I assume you didn't go to the 2003 protest and I assume you would think the only people who went were Muslims. Uhhh, well I think loads of non Muslim Brits turned out for this one...


"The British Stop the War Coalition (StWC) held a protest in London which it claimed was the largest political demonstration in the city's history. Police estimated attendance as well in excess of 750,000 people[30] and the BBC estimated that around a million attended.[31] The protest was organised under the slogan "No war on Iraq - freedom for Palestine".

en.wikipedia.org...

I think you're out of touch with the rest of Britain, maybe you feel alienated because of that, even in your own country...what a shame. But that's your issue not everyone else's, maybe you just need to change your perspective on things.

reply to post by Mesdoline


Your right. I'm out of touch. Maybe i should go out and speak to a few of them? Oh no, most of them dont speak english
I am fracked off at the government to, This is their fault entirely for opening up the country and lettiing ANYBODY in.

The protesting of British troops marching through the streets while chants and signs that should have had those individuals arrested. The individuals that openly admit thatthey hate this country and want to see it islamified while refusing to leave.

I want to live in a country where I can protest, loudly if I want. I want to live in a country where my opinions can be freely shared, even they aren't always popular. I want to be free to disagree.

In about 18 months I will have been in the UK long enough to begin the process of obtaining citizenship. I am looking forward to the day when I can PROUDLY say I am British.

I wouldn't have immigrated to this country did I ( and even the most villainous) not have the right to make my views known, to speak out, to protest...

Most moslems do speak english. It is in their economic intersets to do so. I do wish people would get their facts right.

Most moslems do respect this country and uphold the law. Just because people do noty have union jacks tatoos do not make thendisrespectful to their new or host country.

There is a lot of myths being traded as fact and this does not help sensible discussion. But some people may not wish to have sensible discussion.

What is their secret Agenda I ask myslf.
My secret agenda is the right to exercise my democratic right to be providing it does not break any laws. It i ironic that people hate the EU because it compromises the Sovereignity of the Nation-state of the United Kingdom but still wish to compromise the freedom of the individual to put up a place of worship.



[edit on 24-5-2010 by Tiger5]

Originally posted by Tiger5
Most moslems do speak english. It is in their economic intersets to do so. I do wish people would get their facts right.

Most moslems do respect this country and uphold the law. Just because people do noty have union jacks tatoos do not make thendisrespectful to their new or host country.

There is a lot of myths being traded as fact and this does not help sensible discussion. But some people may not wish to have sensible discussion.

What is their secret Agenda I ask myslf.
My secret agenda is the right to exercise my democratic right to be providing it does not break any laws. It i ironic that people hate the EU because it compromises the Sovereignity of the Nation-state of the United Kingdom but still wish to compromise the freedom of the individual to put up a place of worship.

[edit on 24-5-2010 by Tiger5]

My personal take is that all the issues within the UK really sit at the feet of the establishment to keep this nation divided in as many ways as possible to ensure their power over us, the people of this nation.

It is an agenda that runs back in time a long long way.. the current situation is simply another manifestation of that ongoing agenda to maintain control over these isles.

Local and national traditions have been squashed and pushed to one side for centuries..

It is clearly demonstrable when our Establishment abides by and respects the UNESCO cultural conventions, yet will not sign up to those conventions to allow UK traditions the same protections that are afforded other cultures.

Soon we will be a nation of wonderfully preserved houses and castles but will lack a cultural soul... Is it the migrants fault? no, all these issues lie at the feet of an establishment that both supports and ostracises the migrants in the same breath...

Well I would support the UK traditons I also support the RSPB and also the National Trust. What traditions needs particular support? The Padstowe Obby Oss is well supported as is the Lewes Fire Festival ( attended that one twice).

Yes we can support tghe endangered ones if we knew of them.

[edit on 24-5-2010 by Tiger5]

reply to post by Mesdoline


Wow Bajans in da house> My maternal grandfather
was Bajan and we did some genalogy there. If you are born in England You are English. Just tek the bits of culture that you like and leave the rest.

I would give my worst enemy tradional Pie Mashand Likker. I have had the best and it still tastes dreadfull.

The trouble is that most of the Moaners do not know much about english cultural and cannot erplain it in a sensible manner. The do not know much about theatre, paintings or the Arts movement so eventually everyone just shuffles away. I actually do knoiw a fair bit about british culture which must be confounding for them but there ya go

[edit on 24-5-2010 by Tiger5]

Originally posted by Tiger5

I would give my worst enemy tradional Pie Mashand Likker. I have had the best and it still tastes dreadfull.

And do you honestly think that is the hight of British culinary delights?

I bet there is hardly a person outside of London who knows what 'liquor' is in this context.

Originally posted by Tiger5
Well I would support the UK traditons I also support the RSPB and also the National Trust. What traditions needs particular support? The Padstowe Obby Oss is well supported as is the Lewes Fire Festival ( attended that one twice).

Yes we can support tghe endangered ones if we knew of them.

[edit on 24-5-2010 by Tiger5]

Firstly I'm not talking about anyone supporting endangered traditions...

What is the point in supporting a tradition if the meaning of the tradition has been lost?

My point was that those traditions have been at the receiving end of 150+ years of damage by the Establishment... you only have to look at how St George's and Bonfire night have been diminished over the last 150 years to see that.

Tho I'm glad you got to see Lewes bonfire, but did you manage to see the bonfires, the remembrance services? or just the grand procession?

Even if you got to see the whole night from within one of the societies, you saw only one small part of what is a 10 week series of events that span 1,000 years of history and sadly now ONLY covers 34 towns and villages... as more each year more societies fail to find the required escalating H&S costs.

But I guess since there are still 34 out of the thousands of societies there once where that is more than enough not to consider those traditions under threat.

So in your opinion, how many societies should we get down to before we consider the traditions under threat? 1 or 2 out of the original thousands?

On a side note, May I ask what you made of white folks dressing up as Zulu's, Native American Indian's etc... did it come across as racist? as that is what quite a number of people take from the event.. they feel it racist and should be banned...

But did you know that Commercial Square society have dressed that way in solidarity with Native American Indians and to protest their treatment at the hands of the white man for a long time..

www.c-s-b-s.co.uk...

Does that make it less racist knowing it is a traditional approach to reaffirm solidarity with minorities, and not just highlight but protest their plight? or is it still wrong?

The whole thing is about protesting people plight regardless of skin colour and religion, and those traditions flow into all our other (local) traditions even the new ones traditions like the Independence day celebrations (taking place this weekend) are to protest at the treatment of people at the hands of the Establishment.

A tradition is more than simply following something by rote, or waving a flag.. it has meaning and depth..

I will say this tho, that once England has lost the real bonfire traditions you can not resurrect them.. once they are gone they'll be gone forever... I for one will fight for my traditions.. and I will continue to consider them both under threat and in peril.

Firstly not everyone who dresses up in Blackface is a racist. FRankly one of the ways that I cope with racists is just to laugh at them. Let them have their fun. I probably earn more than them anyway. Racists try to make black people feel threatened or bad about themselves I simply refuse to comply. They may try and punch me but then I unleash the BEAST.

Yes I have seen the bonfires.

The problem with escalating H & S is significant but at some stage people will have to put their own hands into their own pockets and put up or shut up.

I take the same view about black culture. I did not even want slavery discussed in my children's school because it was going to be a big hash. So said so done they made a hash out of it!

I have faith in "We the people getting stuff done" and retaining interesting cultural traditions. I do not wish to have people shooting welshmen with bows and arrows or archery practise in Bleak midwinter.

IMHO cultural traditions may ebb and flow. Perhaps the current moaners are the leading edge of an English revival but only time will tell.

Originally posted by Tiger5
Firstly not everyone who dresses up in Blackface is a racist. FRankly one of the ways that I cope with racists is just to laugh at them. Let them have their fun. I probably earn more than them anyway. Racists try to make black people feel threatened or bad about themselves I simply refuse to comply. They may try and punch me but then I unleash the BEAST.

Yes I have seen the bonfires.

The problem with escalating H & S is significant but at some stage people will have to put their own hands into their own pockets and put up or shut up.

I take the same view about black culture. I did not even want slavery discussed in my children's school because it was going to be a big hash. So said so done they made a hash out of it!

I have faith in "We the people getting stuff done" and retaining interesting cultural traditions. I do not wish to have people shooting welshmen with bows and arrows or archery practise in Bleak midwinter.

IMHO cultural traditions may ebb and flow. Perhaps the current moaners are the leading edge of an English revival but only time will tell.

I quite agree with the ebb and flow, one tradition flows into another, hence why at one point it was new to dress up as X in solidarity with the plight of X, and now it is traditional.. just as Cliffe declaring independence 2004 is an extension of those traditions it is also something new, that may one become a tradition in it's own right.

and yet another future tradition could be "Encierro Dos Animales Pantamimos" (Running with the Pantomime Animals) how typical is that of the culture of these isles...

rozsouth.zenfolio.com...

But the transitional links are there.. a heritage that has meaning and depth.. a coming together of communities... which is something we seriously lack in many cities and towns around the nation... and we need that.. we are (IMHO) community driven, and that is the part that I feel us being undermined.

As for putting hands in pockets, the reason we now have a 10 week long series of events is that it allows each society to support each other... this has extended to setting up business etc to ensure they can afford to maintain the cost of running the events, while still supporting local charities..

The fundamental reason the Bonfire council went to UNESCO for support was to put a block on the excessive charges that where being levied against the events... and push those charges back to a fair level...

Which I do not feel is wrong, it is not asking for handouts, just a fair shake which we are not getting at the moment... I feel it akin to putting up extreme parking costs to deter people from parking in certain areas.. again a policy approach that sits at the feet of the establishment..

And we come full circle to my point that it is not the migrants who are the root cause of most of the issues.. If you are not offended by those who dress up in blackfaces as racist, who is it that is offended? IMHO we come back to the establishment being the root cause of most of the problems we face.

in all honesty i dislike being british, i pride myself as being welsh. i totally agree with the governments being seperate, but us welsh, and probably the scots couldnt handle the pressure of the economic climate now or ever.
but wouldnt it be nice not to get involved in english/usa wars, but the thing is, even if we were seperate our government would drag us into helping.
i dont mind the immigrants, as long as theres not too many of them and ones that dont complain about us flying our flags or whatever else we want to do, a lot dont, but if they come to our "better" way of life, maybe they should embrace our culture? im not saying they should take our religion or start flying the british/english/welsh/scottish/irish flags, but at least accept that this is where they live and that these are the people.

Originally posted by Mesdoline

Do "foreigners" integrate? OF COURSE they do, maybe you are to blind to see it. You see what you want to see. Too blind to see that when they become British citizens they work for peanuts all day and night, the kind of money that you wouldn't want to work for, and they work HARD for it. They send their kids to school where their children have no choice but to integrate.

The problem with this is that you're speaking in absolutes. Some 'foreigners' integrate, some don't. You're blinder than I am if you can't see this - or perhaps in denial.

I went to a secondary school that had a lot of Muslim, Asian girls and they were lovely, honestly.

I dare say they were, but it's fairly irrelevant. I doubt anyone on this thread thinks all 'foreigners' are evil, twisted monsters.

I live in London, it's very multicultural and that's one reason why I love living where I do.

I have an Oldham postcode. It's very "multicultural" and it's one reason why I increasingly despair of where I'm living.

The whole evil Muslim thing is so preschool it's laughable.

Really? Where I live, it's always been the local area for dumping immigrants and has been since the 1840s when the first Irish started to move to the area. Unfortunately for the 'cardiac Celts' on here they weren't very popular for fairly good reasons and ghetto-ised themselves. A cursory look at the 'Conditions of the Working Class in England' illustrates the position that northern towns (including in and around Manchester) were in even before the influx of Irish following the Famine - the areas, like many Northern areas now, just weren't capable of supporting immigration. In the 1970s large Hindu immigration came to the area and 'pushed' a lot of the Irish out and created a mini diaspora into the neighbouring towns.

When I moved to this area, literally, the first friends I made were Hindus and members of the Krsna Consciousness movement. Genuinely lovely people. It was colourful but still quite area with not much in the way of crime other than non-Hindu locals after pubs closing. However, over the last 17 years or so, this has changed dramatically. The whole Hindu population has gone and has been replaced with Muslims. The integration that existed before has just gone completely. There's no go areas now. You can expect to get bottled now for crossing the wrong side of the street at night. I've had dozens of run-ins with gangs of Muslims teenagers and young men in their 20s - the same gangs regularly vandalising the Catholic Church that the Irish immigrants built in the 1800s and threatening the staff there. There's little point in trying to use local shops any more, where once the owners were chatty and welcoming, now most won't or don't speak English.

On top of that, we've had many refugees from the Bosnian-Kosovan war, lots and lots of Poles and the last few years have seen a lot of French speaking Africans. And you know what? Very, very few of them try and integrate. Having worked in both the local council and the NHS, I know that through interpreter usage, there's a massive local problem with immigrants not speaking English - which is surely the benchmark of integration?

Oh yeah, my other half is the daughter of refugees who came here in the 1950s. It's not as if I'm immigrant-phobic.

reply to post by Dr Slim


I am a very proud Englishman.

I am also proud to be British, I see no conflict there.

Yes, we need increased devolution for all parts of the UK, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England.

But a complete break up of The Union would be disastrous for us all.

It is time we concentrated on that which unites us rather than what divides.

On a slightly different note; I voted for a seperate North East Regional Assembly back in 2004.
London and the South East, (not including Cliffe, Lewes, ) dominates English politics and I still feel that the North East should be more in control of it's own destiny, unfortunately I was in the minority, and I accept that.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by Dr Slim

 

I am a very proud Englishman.

I am also proud to be British, I see no conflict there.

Yes, we need increased devolution for all parts of the UK, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England.

But a complete break up of The Union would be disastrous for us all.

It is time we concentrated on that which unites us rather than what divides.

On a slightly different note; I voted for a seperate North East Regional Assembly back in 2004.
London and the South East, (not including Cliffe, Lewes,

) dominates English politics and I still feel that the North East should be more in control of it's own destiny, unfortunately I was in the minority, and I accept that.

Well the Cliffe certainly have strong views about London and Westminster just think, I grew up in the South, which did not include London... *boo* to changing those boundaries

But in all honesty, we as a nation have some wonderfully inclusive cultural traditions like the last night of the proms.. yet I feel we fall down on our faces as the internal splits that keep us apart..

The North - South Divide has always bugged me, and made me sad, but I'm not surprised it happened...

Consider what would have happened to the Gov if the Swing riots (1830) in the South had engulfed the whole nation.. Or the preceding Luddite rising (1811) in the North had swept South..

Your lot against looms out lot against threshing machines...

BUT... how similar are we, you Northerners picked the pseudonym King Ludd, we Southerners had the pseudonym Captain Swing..

We are similar in all things bar the North South divide

Just think on both occasions the Establishment would have had to bend to the will of the people and not their own greed/need for control, No wonder they have to keep us apart

Originally posted by thoughtsfull
The North - South Divide has always bugged me, and made me sad, but I'm not surprised it happened...

Try living on the other side of the North-South divide; it will do more than bug you.

Consider what would have happened to the Gov if the Swing riots (1830) in the South had engulfed the whole nation.. Or the preceding Luddite rising (1811) in the North had swept South..

Your lot against looms out lot against threshing machines...

BUT... how similar are we, you Northerners picked the pseudonym King Ludd, we Southerners had the pseudonym Captain Swing..

We are similar in all things bar the North South divide

The North-South thing is actually a lot older than the vast majority of people recognise. It was a problem during the Anglo-Saxon period due - again to immigration - as there was more of an Anglo-Norse mix up North and it didn't always go down well with the burgeoning England.

Similarly, when William the Bastard comes along, Northerners are marked out once again. It's hard to overstate the devastation this caused. At the time, the landscape was very different in the North as both sides of the Pennines were covered in great marshes and good, working land wasn't as plentiful as many would imagine now. So, for the Bastard to level as much as he did was absolutely shocking and hateful. For me, this is where the North-South divide really begins - after all much of the lands of England that were dividied between the Bastard's noblemen are still in the ownerships of the same families a 1000 years later.

reply to post by Merriman Weir


I have a lot of respect for your posts, are you sure you want to state that the North was treated much worse than my home County of Sussex by the Norman and like?

I actually feel like I was reaching out a hand in friendship, and stated that I felt sad a north/south Divide exists... maybe I was wrong to do that, I have learned my lesson with burnt fingers not to bother in the future.

At no point in my post was I defining when a North/South divide started... I still feel it is a construction of the Establishment to keep power over us surfs.. That point of view will go with me to the grave...

And I've never taken to position that one part of the country was treated better/worse than another.. especially regarding the Normans, who I understood ruled Sussex (direct route to/from Normandy) with pretty much an Iron fist.

But I guess I must be wrong, and that in fact the Normans really went round cuddling all us rich snobby Southerners, no wonder we are so disliked in the North.

The North - South divide has been long and bitter.

Just look at how the one truly northern King we have had, Richard III has been demonised over the centuries.
en.wikipedia.org...

Yet the truth is he was a very able and indeed loved Monarch who did a lot to help raise standards in 'The North'.

Richard was disliked in London as he brought a lot of Northerners into his court and was comparatively liberal for the times and also recognised and rewarded talent, sometimes at the expense of poltical expediency.

He was very strong and powerful man who evoked huge loyalty on his followers but his northern brashness alienated too many people.

After his death he was vilified and subsequent historians and playwrights portrayed him as evil incarnate and an example of backward Northerners.

A side issue, when driving North on A1,M1 or A1M or whatever, North is always indicated as 'The North'.
When driving South it just states 'South', not 'The South'.
Exactly where is 'The North' and where does it start?


Edit. Not enough I's!

[edit on 24/5/10 by Freeborn]