(video) Possibly the best evidence of a bomb explosion before the first plane hit

reply to post by bkfd54


343 is a selfish number, you can't not count the civilians killed in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, minimum of 100,000 civilians killed while some speculate up to or over 1,000,000 civilians killed because of Bush's illegal wars.

There won't be rest until the guilty are prosecuted (Bush administration).

If someone's foot "kicked" or "touched" the camera, then that could explain the "boom" and the shaky video at that moment.

I believe the government aint fessin up but, we have to be careful about our research.

This video goes a long way in compiling the pre-plane explosions.

It is sad that no matter how much evidence is posted, the American People will not concede that we have not been told the entire truth.

Whether you believe it was the government or terrorists, or a combination of both, the evidence is overwhelming that we do not have all the facts in regards to what the government knows about this event.

I feel there is so much evidence to point to some type of government involvement or total incompetence that allowed others to orchestrate this event that anyone with a set of eyes and a brain would realize we have been hoodwinked with the cockamamie story.

We will never get a total disclosure on what happened, not now, and not in the future. Most everyone knows it is not as it was presented. The sad part is there are still so many "lock-step government supporters" that keep up the unarguable argument. 911 was something other than what we have been told, what that something is can be debated, but there is no debate that 2 lone planes brought down those buildings, that is simply inconceivable, improbable, unbelievable, and a damn unacceptable explanation.

Can I just point out that the above video "Smoke rises from street before towers fell" is thoroughly debunked. Both towers are not standing. The timing is incorrect.

reply to post by truthseeker911

I more than believe that there is more to that day than what we are being told, but do not believe this proves bombs going off before the plane hit. I was taken in by the video but it appears that the camera jump was caused by the plane hitting the WTC and the thump heard was probably from the mic on the camera. Then the plane striking was heard two seconds later (not four) because of the distance from the building.

Camera Jump @ 6:58
Plane Strike Heard @ 7:00

reply to post by truthseeker911


of course, if there were people blown apart in the basement, then obviously they wouldnt be around to talk about it. I understand that.

But you are failing to understand that an explosion of a bomb, with whatever in it, is not going to exploded underground in the basement, and then burn people that are far above it with large fireballs. And no, adding thermite to a bomb is not going to make a bigger fireball. That is pure fantasy, and holds as much water as me saying it was magic pixy dust that was added to the bomb.

But, ok, I'll bite, lets go the bomb direction for a second and say there was a detonation of one in the basement. So this large bomb goes off doing, well, whatever damage it was suppose to do, in the basement. Now the fireball from the basement bomb would then somehow have to travel into the elevator shafts (while somehow manuevering towards them without losing its velocity and strength and heat) then travel up the shafts in large fireball form, have to wait until an elevator plummets down with people to burn and incinerate them inside, then keep going and blow out the elevator doors on the ground floor and burn more people that were near the elevator doors. Now THAT is one magic bomb-fireball. It totally defies the laws of physics. The sheer force of the blast that would be needed to even have a fireball like that to move around from the basement (from where we dont know) and to still have enough heat and energy to melt people to plastic chairs on the ground floor and torch to a crisp inside the elevators, is nothing short of an A-bomb or even miraculous. And to do all this without the coresponding blast effects following the fireball is also strange.

You have to remember a thing about bombs (of any type): The larger the fireball, the larger the blast radius.

I would read about the victims and what happened as said by the people that were there:

Lobby & 3rd floor: Firefighter Peter Blaich
As we got to the third floor of the B stairway, we forced open an elevator door which was burnt on all three sides. The only thing that was remaining was the hoistway door. And inside the elevator were about I didn’t recognize them initially, but a guy from 1 Truck said oh my God, those are people. They were pretty incinerated. And I remember the overpowering smell of kerosene. That’s when Lieutenant Foti said oh, that’s the jet fuel. I remember it smelled like if you’re camping and you drop a kerosene lamp.
.........................................
That’s the first thing that got me. That and in front of one of the big elevator banks in the lobby was a desk and I definitely made out one of the corpses to be a security guard because he had a security label on his jacket. I’m assuming that maybe he was at a table still in a chair and almost completely incinerated, charred all over his body, definitely dead. And you could make out like a security tag on his jacket. And I remember seeing the table was melted, but he was still fused in the chair and that elevator bank was melted, so I imagine the jet fuel must have blown right down the elevator shaft and I guess caught the security guard at a table, I guess at some type of checkpoint. www.firehouse.com...

sites.google.com...

Ronnie Clifford and Jennianne Maffeo
At around 8.45am, Ronnie walked into the lobby of the Marriott, which was connected to the lobby of the north tower by a revolving door. As he was checking his yellow tie in a mirror, he felt a massive explosion, followed several seconds later by a reverberation, a warping effect that he describes as the "harmonic tolerance of a building that's shaking like a tuning fork". He peered through the revolving door into the lobby of the north tower. It was filling with haze. People were scurrying to escape what had become a "hurricane of flying debris".

Then the revolving door turned with a suctioning sound followed by a hot burst of wind, and in came a mannequin of the future. A woman, naked, dazed, her arms outstretched. She was so badly burned that Ronnie had no idea what race she was or how old she might be. She clawed the air with fingernails turned porcelain-white. The zipper of what had once been a sweater had melted into her chest, as if it were the zipper to her own body. Her hair had been singed to a crisp steel wool. With her, in the gust of the door, came a pungent odour, the smell of kerosene or paraffin, Ronnie thought..........
She had been standing outside the north tower next to a man she knew, waiting for a bus, when she heard a loud crash above. In an effort to protect them from falling debris, a security guard herded everyone inside the tower's lobby. Suddenly, she told Ronnie, something bright and hot enveloped her, a vapour maybe. She thought it could have dropped down the elevator shaft. She was worried about the man who'd been next to her. Surely he was dead, she feared.

As you can see, this is not the work of some thermite laced bomb. This is the result of a jet-fuel fed fireball that traveled down the shafts. Also, the "explosions" you see in Hollywood movies with the big fireballs? Those are augumented with fuel, either desiel fuel, gasoline, jet fuel, or even propane. they make the great fireballs but have very little blast effects. In reality, high power explosives do not make such dazzeling fireballs. I hope you are starting to understand these facts.

One more account:

Firefighter Terence Rivera: As I got off the back -- the back step, there were a few individuals that were civilians that were outside that were burnt. There was a -- he wasn't a regular security guard. He had a weapon on him. I don't know if he was FBI or Secret Service and he was trying to put the pants out on one individual that was conscious. His pants were still smoldering. I took the can, fire extinguisher off the truck and then sprayed down the pants on the person that was still conscious.

At that time, I had asked him where did this individual come from. He told me when the plane had hit, a fire ball had shot down the elevator shaft and had blown people out of the lobby.

graphics8.nytimes.com...

There are TONS of, I think, conclusive videos of secondary explosions. OP does add another good one to the mix, though.

Consider these queries:
youtube.com...
youtube.com...
youtube.com...
youtube.com...
youtube.com...

So much evidence, so many asleep...

Originally posted by some_dude1977
reply to post by truthseeker911

 

I more than believe that there is more to that day than what we are being told, but do not believe this proves bombs going off before the plane hit. I was taken in by the video but it appears that the camera jump was caused by the plane hitting the WTC and the thump heard was probably from the mic on the camera. Then the plane striking was heard two seconds later (not four) because of the distance from the building.

Camera Jump @ 6:58
Plane Strike Heard @ 7:00

I would say

Camera vibration @ 6:57
Plane Strike Heard @ 7:00


If the plane hitting the building was the cause then the actual explosion should have made the camera have a much greater vibration due to the fact that the force of the explosion would have been greater.

reply to post by GenRadek


en.wikipedia.org...

Thermite was also used in both German and Allied incendiary bombs during World War II. Incendiary bombs usually consisted of dozens of thin thermite-filled canisters (bomblets) ignited by a magnesium fuse. Incendiary bombs destroyed entire cities due to the raging fires that resulted from their use.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

www.scribd.com...


"All of a sudden I heard a roar and I saw one of the towers blow ... I saw from street level as though it exploded up, a giant rolling ball of flame..."

"I hear simultaneously this roar and see what appears to be a gigantic fireball rising up at ground level...I remember seeing this giant ball of fire come out of the earth as I heard this roar"

I don't have to keep quoting the above, enough said.

reply to post by truthseeker911


But the thermite canisters they used in WWII were not to create fireballs, but to spread burning material, just like the white phosphorous bombs they used.

There is a big difference between thermite burning and a massive jet fuel fireball. A big difference. You might want to read up on the incendiaries used in WWII:
en.wikipedia.org...

Yes they used thermite as well, but they used the burning properties of it to create the fires. Just like why it would be a BAD idea to light a cup of thermite in your house. Its not going to create a massive fireball as if you just blew up a gasoline can. Its going to spit out burning and molten iron everywhere, to create fires. And its hard to put out a thermite reaction as well. But the important thing to remember, thermite does not create massive fireballs like a gasoline fed or jet-fuel fed explosion.

And what you described is exactly how a fuel fed fireball would behave. Not like thermite. I do not know how exactly else to explain why you are incorrect.

Again, look at this video of a fuel explosion:


Notice how large the fireball is (yes I am aware its a B-52 and not a 767).
That fireball does have some "punch" to it but nothing like a high power explosive.

Now how about C4 used on a weapons cache, for example:



Do you see a large fireball similar to the plane crash one? That is the key.

reply to post by truthseeker911

Thermite was also used in both German and Allied incendiary bombs during World War II. Incendiary bombs usually consisted of dozens of thin thermite-filled canisters (bomblets) ignited by a magnesium fuse. Incendiary bombs destroyed entire cities due to the raging fires that resulted from their use.

Thermite does not produce a large fireball. It also burns rather slowly
being consumed in about a minute. The fireballs seen at WTC 1 were
large and instantaneous. Not like thermite which burns slower. Also
fireballs blew out into the streets burning number of people

Refer Jeannae Maffeo from General Radek

Port Authority Police Captain Anthony Whittaker

[Whitaker] "When Flight 11 hit, he had been standing in front of a Banana Republic store in the enclosed shopping mall and concourse beneath the two towers, a spot he occupied four mornings a week and where thousands of people exiting the subways could see him. Whitaker had been stunned by a fireball that ran down an elevator shaft in the north tower." 102 Minutes: The Untold Story of the Fight to Survive Inside the Twin Towers, Jim Dwyer and Kevin Flynn, 2006. MacMillan, New York. p. 78

"At the time of the attacks, Chief Whitaker was the police captain responsible for all Port Authority officers assigned to the World Trade Center. He played a major role in directing the evacuation of the complex after the attacks. He also narrowly escaped death by dodging a fireball of jet fuel that exploded from an elevator shaft." www.panynj.gov...

The thermite incendiary during WW II used a thick cylinder of Magnesium with termite in center, Thermite served to ignite magnesium
which burned for 15 minutes and set fire to flammable objects in vicinity

Having fought number of magnesium fires in vehicles (there are magnesium parts) can attest to fact that magnesium fires are extremely difficult to extinguish . Magnesium burns with brillant white light

Noboby reported anything resembling buring thermite or magnesium

reply to post by GenRadek


You can't argue about the fireball/s by posting up non related videos and try to conclusively say that there wasn't thermite and that the fireballs came from above.

There is no way to prove the exact characteristics of the fireball that occurred on that day nor the exact characteristics of the bombs used that day. Really there is no way to prove if the fireball came from above or below, it's speculation on both parts.

Eyewitnesses have conclusively talked about a fireball but where it came from we really don't know. Speculation can be done but not much else at this point.

reply to post by thedman


Obviously witnesses aren't going to say bombs with thermite mixtures and then proceed to give the chemical makeup. People said they saw a fireball. The molten metal burning for weeks even months after 911 proves there was thermite used that day.

reply to post by truthseeker911


I have to post the videos of fireballs because you are not getting the fact that thermite or bombs do not create massive fireballs like jet fuel fed ones. And if the explosion does create a large fireball, it also MUST have a very large and powerful blast.

And again, thermite does not create a jet-fuel like fireball on ignition. Neither do high power explosives. That is obvious and you cannot go and say that, oh we dont know what kind of explosives they were so we cannot say how they should behave. Well, true, but we DO know that all "high power" explosives are used and create massive blasts with small fireballs. (A-bombs are the exception), and we DO know that jetfuel explosions create massive fireballs, and we DO know that thermite does NOT create a massive fireball on ignition. And also people would have burned by molten iron had it been "exploding" thermite and doctors treating them would notice large amounts of iron stuck like shrapnel in their victims.

Unless you think that a few large tanker trucks full of jet-fuel were parked underground and detonated in the garages are what caused them.

Great post

A few guys were asking about seismograph evidence......

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cac1335f9a6d.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3a3b0643f532.jpg[/atsimg]

And one of many links available......

www.rinf.com...

Originally posted by Seventh
Great post

A few guys were asking about seismograph evidence......

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cac1335f9a6d.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3a3b0643f532.jpg[/atsimg]

And one of many links available......

www.rinf.com...

Thanks for that. Confirmation that the first seismic event was 8-46-26 which was plane impact to North Tower.

Debunks assertion in OP that there was a pleminary explosion.

Originally posted by Alfie1
Thanks for that. Confirmation that the first seismic event was 8-46-26 which was plane impact to North Tower.

Debunks assertion in OP that there was a pleminary explosion.

Except for the fact that the plane exploding should have caused another vibration to the camera according to you but it didn't. The planes impact would have been less force then the explosion.

So the camera should have shaken when the explosion happened not when the plane hit according to your impact theory. The explosion had more force.

reply to post by truthseeker911


The camera is not a seismic instrument . Seismic instruments are very sensitive whereas a camera is designed to be moved around and handled without its recordings going wobbly all the time. I don't believe it was capable of recording any seismic shock from the WTC some distance away.

By far most likely is that someone looking up to see the plane accidently stubbed their toe on it. As a result you have simultaneous sound and a little shake.

Originally posted by Just Wondering
reply to post by Faiol

 

The truth is so sinister, so mind blowing so evil that people don't even bother to entertain the probability that our own government could have done such a horrible act.

But why bring the towers all the way down. If they wanted a red flag event to justify their war on terror weren't the planes hitting the towers be enough reason? Why kill extra people withut need? Was there something else in the towers that needed destroying and this was a "two birds, one stone" situation?

The investigation needs to be re-opened.

Insurance money.... = Mega profit for owner....there were probably multiple reasons also.