(video) Possibly the best evidence of a bomb explosion before the first plane hit

Originally posted by podizzle
i think its the shockwave that hits first, then you hear the sound. the shockwave always travels faster than the sound.

This was my immediate reaction too, but I did a little math to see if its close; it's not close.

Wiki figures used:
Buildings 1 & 2 are 110 floors tall.
Height of buildings to top floor is around 412m ( #1=413m, #2=411m)
That gives us ~3.75m per floor.
Speed of sound = ~343 m/s
4 seconds @ 343 m/s = 1372

Which means that if a 4 second delay between the shockwave and sound (assuming shockwave is instantly perceived at ground level), then the explosion would have had to occur on the ~366th floor of the building (which, remember, is 110 floors tall).

The figures used were all rounded, but that should produce a reasonably close figure. Since it places the crash around 366 floors up in a 110 floor building, I'm concluding that the theory of shockwave vs speed of sound does not hold up to explain this.

reply to post by Xiizhan


A shock wave can travel faster than the speed of sound.

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by Xiizhan

 

A shock wave can travel faster than the speed of sound.

I assumed the shockwave was instantaneously recorded.

Originally posted by Xiizhan

Originally posted by podizzle


Which means that if a 4 second delay between the shockwave and sound (assuming shockwave is instantly perceived at ground level), then the explosion would have had to occur on the ~366th floor of the building (which, remember, is 110 floors tall).

The time between two explosions is less than 2 secs. What 4secs you are talking about?

Good vid, anyway. Regardless of this video, I know that us gov had selfish interest of either in allowing or financing this attack. And how can anyone crash in Pentagon? It had to be taken down before it hit the building.

The time between two explosions is less than 2 secs. What 4secs you are talking about?

Sorry, I don't have sound on. I was relying on someone else saying 4 seconds between shockwave and sound.

Depending on which building the video is of:
Building 1: 93 floors up would produce a time delay of ~1.02 seconds.
Building 2: 78 floors up would produce a time delay of ~0.85 seconds.



[edit on 22-5-2010 by Xiizhan]

[edit on 22-5-2010 by Xiizhan]

reply to post by truthseeker911


9/11 the ultimate con is also a good video as too say it was all planned by a bomb. I am still blaming the Israelis on this because of the fact that 5 dancing Israelis were caught on tape saying they were there to document the whole thing.

Originally posted by Faiol
***snip***

nothing ... it just proves that people are ignorant and people are manipulated every second of our lives, and it just proves that darwin theory was correct

You are so right in that statement.

I'm not sure we agree on who is being manipulated though...

Originally posted by Just Wondering
reply to post by Faiol

..If they wanted a red flag event to justify their war on terror weren't the planes hitting the towers be enough reason? Why kill extra people withut need? Was there something else in the towers that needed destroying and this was a "two birds, one stone" situation?

Yes. I believe his name was John O'Neill.
Who Killed John O'Neill?


Cheers,
Strype

Excellent find OP! S&F!
I hadnt seen this video yet.

Its hard to believe theres still video I havent seen about 9/11!

Pretty good evidence in my opinion... I jst wish we could get video from inside the lobby of WTC! that would of been nice

Originally posted by VonDoomen
Excellent find OP! S&F!
I hadnt seen this video yet.

Its hard to believe theres still video I havent seen about 9/11!

Pretty good evidence in my opinion... I jst wish we could get video from inside the lobby of WTC! that would of been nice

yeah you only see partial video of the lobby in that video. But seeing those lobby windows shattered is definitely an eye opener. Man FBI and CIA are slaking. They may have taken all the recorded video from the JFK assassinations, but they surely didn't take all the 9/11 videos.

Correct me if i'm wrong but none of the elevator shafts went from the ground to the seventy second floor due to the fire risk and building a lift system like that would mean the lift shafts would use up half the building available space.

Again correct me if i'm wrong but fuel travling forwards at 400mph would not do a 90 degree turn, fly down the safts before exploding in the basement would it.

Would it be fair to assume all a terrorist needs is a petrol bomb thown down an elevator shaft to rip of the doors and blow out all the windows in the entrace lobbby and to destroy a 7 ton press in the lower basement level.

1000's of people came forward to say what they saw but years of media propaganda telling them it was something else still has not made these people change their minds.

I think you could build each tower for about $2bn each and on the prior day to the attack congress had been told that $2.3tr had gone misssing with more of the paperwork being held in building seven.

www.911myths.com...

little bit of maths say with that amount of cash you could rebuild ground zero 500 times over and still have change.

What happened about the $2.3tr or did they say, like the stock dip last week that they could not trace it like the shorts put on the airlines days before the 9/11 attack !

Just how much proof do you need or should i throw in that the granson of a know war criminal was on the board of directors for the company that was supossed to be providing security at ground zero on 9/11 and not only was his brother president of the USA but his dad had also been president.

million, billion, billion starts in the universe and i guess it just had to be this once flat earth where this coinidence took place.

whatreallyhappened.com...

According to its present CEO, Barry McDaniel, the company had an ongoing contract to handle security at the World Trade Center "up to the day the buildings fell down."

www.guardian.co.uk...

George Bush's grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany.

Debunk that.

First I'd like to point out that when calculating the shockwave it is not enough to calculate the height of the building and comparing with the speed of sound. You also have to take into account the distance from the building.

I was interested in the video where we see the picture disturbance which is proving the chockwave hitting the camera prematurely.

However - the disturbance we see seems odd to me and quite frankly they seem a bit fabricated.

I tried to make the same thing happen on my camera. Where a professional camera for field work is rather safe from sudden jerks and impacts, I reacon that my home HD camera is much less so.

Have a look at the video I made to demonstrate my doubts:

media.abovetopsecret.com...

My honest belief is that the original video has been tampered with to prove a point that doesn't exist.


EDIT: because of silly error

[edit on 22.5.2010 by HolgerTheDane]

that lobby doesnt look like a bomb hit it, it looks like the elevators came down and blew threw the shafts, ever hear the saying if you drop a penny from the empire state building it will kill someone, now try an elevator shaft or 12+. the pressure would have blown the windows out probably before the elevators hit the ground. same story for the subway. crazy things happen when a building is being demolished by run away airplanes. anyways why did the bombs go off an hour before the buildings fell down? when you blow demo to destroy a building its pretty instantanious and the world trade center did not fall down instantly

reply to post by LieBuster


elevators splashed with burning jet fuel falling 70 stories would have the same effect as bombs thrown down the shaft, probably better results actually

Excellent footage OP! S&F nothing will come of it thou The REAL people behind 9/11 will never be brought to justice!!

I guess debunkers have never heard of terminal velocity! A penny dropped from the empire state building would not kill someone. It is an urban myth. Probably the second most obvious myth concerning New York City skycrapers! lol

Originally posted by itsmethegoat
Out of all the threads I've read about 9/11, how come no one has questioned why there were already cameras and emergency personnel in the area before the first plane hit? I mean, every video on the subject clearly shows emergency workers scrambled around the area. To me that's a sure sign that an emergency occured before the first plane hit, and why else would there be cameras already filming in the area prior to the 'attack'?

I think that's failry easy to explain with NY being a rather large city with a well-functioning, rapidly deployable emergency service.
I guess an alarm from WTC will make the big red light flash down at the stations.

Journalists are also tens of thousands in numbers, all waiting for their scoop of the day... And on that fatal date they got a little more than they expected.

If you refer to the cameraman in this clip, he probably just forgot to turn it off. Happens all the time.
This time, however, it was for the better.

You can't serioulsy think that the entire emergency and journalist corps were "in on it"?
That's silly.

And on the topic of the shockwave;
Anyone who has been at an artillery range knows that the shockwave hits you first, then comes the boom.

reply to post by truther69


HAR HAR HAR guess i didnt, but i guess your right a penny wouldnt kill someone BUT AN ELEVATOR WOULD!!!! it doesnt even have to hit terminal velocity to be deadly, all you have to do is look at that lobby to see that a bomb did not go off, it was just shattered glass. ive seen alot of bomb sites before and you see things like fire, guts, metal, burnt metal, hunks of wall cut out of the building, not just some blown out glass, blown out glass shows that it was nothing more then extreme pressure diffrence from the inside of the building to the out. kind of like how a tornado blows house up from extreme pressure

Originally posted by jakemil
that lobby doesnt look like a bomb hit it, it looks like the elevators came down and blew threw the shafts, ever hear the saying if you drop a penny from the empire state building it will kill someone, now try an elevator shaft or 12+. the pressure would have blown the windows out probably before the elevators hit the ground. same story for the subway. crazy things happen when a building is being demolished by run away airplanes. anyways why did the bombs go off an hour before the buildings fell down? when you blow demo to destroy a building its pretty instantanious and the world trade center did not fall down instantly

I agree, the lobby has clearly not been hit by a bomb but by crashing elevators. There are eye witness accounts of all of this so I don't understand why we need to make up that there was a bomb.

"Several of the large express passenger elevators, which service the sky lobbies, plunged to the main lobby level. At least one of those falling elevators was accompanied by a huge fireball that burst into the lobby and concourse levels. Only four people are known to have survived in the south tower express elevators."

"Felipe David was burned while standing in front of a freight elevator shaft on the B1 or B2 level."

The sound in the video is clearly not an explosion, hell it could even be the cameraman tapping the microphone by accident. I really don't see how that could be mistaken for an explosion.

Whether it was an inside job or not, clasping to every possible story which is easily falsified only serves to discredit the theory.

reply to post by LieBuster

Correct me if i'm wrong but none of the elevator shafts went from the ground to the seventy second floor due to the fire risk and building a lift system like that would mean the lift shafts would use up half the building available space.

There were 3 elevator shafts - 2 high speed passenger and 1 freight
elevator which ran entire lenght of building from basement levels to 107
floor.

There were 99 passenger elevators in each tower, arranged in three vertical zones to move occupants in stages to skylobbies on the 44th and 78th floors. These were arranged as express (generally larger cars that moved at higher speeds) and local elevators in an innovative system first introduced in WTC 1 and WTC 2. There were 8 express elevators from the concourse to the 44th floor and 10 express elevators from the concourse to the 78th floor as well as 24 local elevators per zone, which served groups of floors in those zones. There were seven freight elevators, only one of which served all floors. All elevators had been upgraded to incorporate firefighter emergency operation per American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) A17.1 and Local Law 5 (1973).wtc.nist.gov... (PDF pg. 50)

There were two express elevators (#6 and #7) to Windows on the World (and related conference rooms and banquet facilities) in WTC 1 and two to the observation deck in WTC 2. There were five local elevators in each building: three that brought people from the subterranean levels to the lobby, one that ran between floors 106 and 110, and one that ran between floors 43 and 44, serving the cafeteria from the skylobby. All elevators had been upgraded to incorporate firefighter emergency operation requirements.

In addition to the passenger elevators, there were seven freight elevators in each tower; most served a particular zone, while Car 50 served every floor.
* Car #5: B1-5, 6, 9-40, 44
* Car #6: B1-5, 44, 75, 77-107 wtc.nist.gov... (PDF pg. 72)

So right off you are wrong......

There was a continous path from impact floors to the lobby in North Tower
WTC 1

Numerous witness report fireball blowing down shafts to the lobby - numerous victims were badly burned in the lobby from the jetfuel fireball

Firefighter John Morabito of ladder 10, which is just 200 yards from the north tower.
“Just inside the front entrance, Morabito found two victims of the fireball. A man, already dead, was pushed against a wall, his clothes gone, his eyeglasses blackened, his tongue lying on the floor next to him. The other was a woman, with no clothes, her hair burned off, her eyes sealed.

“The woman, she sat up. I’m yelling to her, ‘Don’t worry, we’re going to help you,’” Morabito said. “She sat up and was trying to talk, but her throat had closed up. She died right there.” www.fdnytenhouse.com...

Mercedes Rivera: I saw a burned woman in a sitting position in the lobby, as if she was still typing behind a desk.... She was already dead.” Susan Hagen and Mary Carouba. Women at Ground Zero: Stories of Courage and Compassion. Indianapolis: Alpha Books, 2002. P. 22

Dave Bobbitt, Port Authority Operations
"It was quite hectic, and we did what we could to stay in contact with the elevator passengers while helping to direct other people out of the building and direct firemen to the stairs and the elevators," Bobbitt remarked. "When entering the North Tower, we saw the marble on the walls was severely cracked, and Riccardelli told everyone to stay back from the walls. Don (Parente) noticed that the doors of elevators number 6 and 7 had been blown out." –Courage Above and Beyond the Call of Duty: A Report of the September 11, 2001 Experiences of Port Authority Engineers at the World Trade Center

Lobby & 3rd floor: Firefighter Peter Blaich
As we got to the third floor of the B stairway, we forced open an elevator door which was burnt on all three sides. The only thing that was remaining was the hoistway door. And inside the elevator were about I didn’t recognize them initially, but a guy from 1 Truck said oh my God, those are people. They were pretty incinerated. And I remember the overpowering smell of kerosene. That’s when Lieutenant Foti said oh, that’s the jet fuel. I remember it smelled like if you’re camping and you drop a kerosene lamp.

The same thing happened to the elevators in the main lobby. They were basically blown out. I do’nt recall if I actually saw people in there. What got me initially in the lobby was that as soon as we went in, all the windows were blown out, and there were one or two burning cars outside. And there were burn victims on the street there, walking around. We walked through this giant blown-out window into the lobby.

There was a lady there screaming that she didn’t know how she got burnt. She was just in the lobby and then next thing she knew she was on fire. She was burnt bad. And somebody came over with a fire extinguisher and was putting water on her.

That’s the first thing that got me. That and in front of one of the big elevator banks in the lobby was a desk and I definitely made out one of the corpses to be a security guard because he had a security label on his jacket. I’m assuming that maybe he was at a table still in a chair and almost completely incinerated, charred all over his body, definitely dead. And you could make out like a security tag on his jacket. And I remember seeing the table was melted, but he was still fused in the chair and that elevator bank was melted, so I imagine the jet fuel must have blown right down the elevator shaft and I guess caught the security guard at a table, I guess at some type of checkpoint. www.firehouse.com...


Brian Reeves, a 34-year-old security guard, was nearly killed while making the rounds in the lobby of 1 World Trade Center on September 11. He started to run after hearing an explosion that he said sounded like a missile, but he was knocked down by a fireball that roared down the elevator shaft.

Reeves suffered third-degree burns to 40 percent of his body before he was able to pat out the flames. He was one of 20 critically-injured patients rushed to New York Presbyterian’s burn unit that day. www.ny1.com...