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UPDATE: Woman shot, killed by Yuba City police

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posted on May, 21 2010 @ 11:10 PM
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Originally posted by Jessicamsa

Originally posted by Vitchilo
It seems the census taker was at their house around 9-9:30 PM...

Between 9 and 9:30 p.m., a U.S. Census worker knocked on the door of a home on Mariner Loop.

What the hell?

Yeah with all the stories of false census workers and sex offenders hired as census workers, I would have told him/her to come back tomorrow during the day...

I don't know if he would have called the cops...

[edit on 21-5-2010 by Vitchilo]


Yeah, not to mention police have been caught lying before, even recently with the shooting of the 7-year old girl in Detroit.

From that article, it could be the cops just went on a power trip or something. A lot of people are fearful of cops for that reason.


We had cops here in oklahoma try to choke out an ambulance driver
trying to deliver a patient to the hospital.

It made the news and the officer was suspended for awhile, but that
gives a clue as to what is out there behind the badge and what it is
capable of doing to the ppl in the same line of work.

Think what it thinks of the common riff raff citizens ?

I have heard of cops talking of humanity as little more than
a nuisance that they'd like to grind under their boot.

Not all cops are that way, but some are being rubber stamped on
their psych profiles when they are really burned out, and burning
the candle at both ends.



[edit on 21-5-2010 by Ex_MislTech]




posted on May, 21 2010 @ 11:18 PM
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reply to post by Jessicamsa
 






Roger-Vasselin was the sister of the late Thomas E. Mathews, a Yuba County judge and district attorney.


If you added those details, it would have been better understood.


I hear corruption.

She probably knew they were after her, for what ever reason, her sister is probably involved, not saying in a bad way, but involved.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 11:35 PM
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Gee whiz you guys. I just don't feel that police are obliged to have after-event back-seat driving of such things, while the world opines on whether "counseling" might have helped the person aiming at them change their mind.

Bottom line: point a gun at a cop, they tell you to put it down and you don't, they shoot you. This is perfectly reasonable from my point of view or there would be a whole lot more dead law enforcement officers and there's no excuse for making that situation any worse for them than it already is.

If the theory is, "Gosh but she was probably just mentally ill," well in my opinion so are most criminals; illness and evil are often indistinguishable, and the obscure and unknown reasons for her behavior are not relevant to how dead someone she shot might be!

If she was just psychologically tweaked -- well, consider it a Darwinian resolution.

RC



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 11:41 PM
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Originally posted by RedCairo
Gee whiz you guys. I just don't feel that police are obliged to have after-event back-seat driving of such things, while the world opines on whether "counseling" might have helped the person aiming at them change their mind.

Bottom line: point a gun at a cop, they tell you to put it down and you don't, they shoot you. This is perfectly reasonable from my point of view or there would be a whole lot more dead law enforcement officers and there's no excuse for making that situation any worse for them than it already is.

If the theory is, "Gosh but she was probably just mentally ill," well in my opinion so are most criminals; illness and evil are often indistinguishable, and the obscure and unknown reasons for her behavior are not relevant to how dead someone she shot might be!

If she was just psychologically tweaked -- well, consider it a Darwinian resolution.

RC


We only have the cops' word that she pointed the gun at them. Pretty similar to how we had the cops' word that they struggled with that woman in Detroit before the gun discharged when the video shows the cop shooting into the residence from the outside. What if she were just holding the gun and the cop shot her first and concocted the story later?



posted on May, 22 2010 @ 05:30 AM
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Originally posted by rjmelter

... BECAUSE when a parent fails to raise their children in an appropriate manner, a criminal is born... and criminals dont have the same mind-set as the rest of us.


Don't generalise.

Plenty of us have had abysmal childhoods and chosen to act decently anyway. My childhood was an obscenity I've never quite recovered from, yet I've spent my life looking after others and not broken too many laws on the way. And all my dealings with police have been civil.

Crims who blame their behaviour onto their childhoods are insulting every decent person who went straight anyway.



posted on May, 22 2010 @ 06:06 AM
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You people scare me.....

All i have to say is...

These Cops shot a grandma dead for having a # gun on her own land, can you imagin a more cowardly creature?

67 year old grandma shot dead, on her own land, in America....

WTF has happened to your country.


There was a time in America when the census man would have at least gotten nicked in the butt.




posted on May, 22 2010 @ 08:05 AM
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reply to post by rjmelter
 


Dear mr rjmelter can you please show me the laws that makes it possible for a person such as an officer of the law
to stroll around on peoples property as much as he/she wants with out a warrant nor crime happening.


best regards zerbot565



posted on May, 22 2010 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
Sadly, she probably believed the rhetoric on talk radio and worked herself up to think she was defending her rights.


What talk radio are you talking about? I listen to it daily and haver never heard a single thing mentioned about census workers or taking our rights. Are you just repeating what you heard on MSNBC?



posted on May, 22 2010 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by JessicamsaWe only have the cops' word that she pointed the gun at them.


Yes, that is correct. [* see below]

Unless we intend to put cameras in front of every residence and office in America, there is always going to be a situation where an officer(s) is involved with an individual(s) and it comes down to the officer's word.

If there is some specific reason to distrust that individual officer(s) that is one thing, and they shouldn't be employed.

Otherwise we are forced to take the word of the people who were actually present for a given event, just like we are forced to take any person's witness testimony if they were the ones present for a situation, even as a civilian.

I agree that 'their testimony' is not 'proof', however, I don't see any reason to ASSUME that they are lying without evidence to that effect.


Pretty similar to how we had the cops' word that they struggled with that woman in Detroit before the gun discharged when the video shows the cop shooting into the residence from the outside.


A couple things.

First, I admit that law enforcement in the most notoriously corrupt big cities is ... often notoriously corrupt. Probably not every LEO, but far too often. I once took a judo course with a man who'd been a white irish cop in Harlem NY for 8 years and he had some... educational stories about it. Still, the fact that "some police officer in some other city in some other state was unethical" does not mean we should simply assume that everything any officer anywhere says is untrue.

Second, Someone has to do that job and they are the ones. Someone has to report on what happened. In any situation where humans are involved there is always room for lies or injustice, whether it's policemen or real estate agents or waiters in question. The uniform doesn't make them saints, but it does simply REQUIRE as part of us having that job, that role in our society, that we have some standards for obtaining it and that as a result of those plus training and experience, we grant some authority/believability to them.


What if she were just holding the gun and the cop shot her first and concocted the story later?


That would suck. But, you see, you assume the worst, but even if that were the case, I would assume that he saw a gun and reacted in self defense and she shouldn't have been holding a gun while facing a police officer, and he probably shouldn't have his whole life ruined over defending himself.

The reality is that pulling guns on people (yes even on your porch) unless they are a genuine threat is not sane to start with. Let alone the situation escalating until finally police are called in. Let alone the person still handling a gun even at that point. It's not like the police knocked to give her a ticket for a parked car with no registration and 'mysteriously' she got shot. She had a major incident involving firearms and threat with a federal worker followed by an incident with the local police which ended up with her still having a gun and the police shooting her.

* As a final note, the coroner would see promptly whether the woman was holding something and how she was holding the gun when shot, the position of the arms affects the entire torso and this is a pretty standard investigation for coroners and IA (Internal Affairs) usually reviews every instance of an officer discharging a weapon (certainly if they hit someone, let alone kill them) in most the precincts I've heard of.

RC



[edit on 22-5-2010 by RedCairo]



posted on May, 22 2010 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by rjmelter
There have been many situations where cops die because of a similar situations, while they probably would have bet that she wouldn't have shot them they are trained that people must comply for officer safety. If they failed and this woman hit the streets, she would more than likely kill civilians if she was as easily capable of killing cops.



This lady was 67. Hardly likely that at her age she would begin a life of murder and crime with shotguns.

I bet if there were running cameras or microphones there that day, the story would be different than what we are told.



posted on May, 22 2010 @ 03:32 PM
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reply to post by 30_seconds
 


Have you even read the full article? Does the article even include her past criminal history report? That would be intersting to read anyways.

But Her husband had a gun at the door and she walked up with a shotgun... how do you justify holding a gun to a person. This INCIDENT did not START with the cops. It started with these people pointed a weapon at a census worker that got the cops CALLED to a situation where the census worker was THREATENED WITH A GUN. Which is illegal in most states if not all. The cops came on scene and then the owners were holding guns to the cops and the woman kept coming closer and closer and they told her to stop.

This was her fault. As for your other claim, yes i could probably clarify what I meant better, but you know what I meant regardless

edit

and why I stated her possibly killing others...

once a person commits murder they have nothing to lose... bceause the law is already out to get them... thus is why it is insinuated that they would kill others. And in other situations they probably would have. BUT COMING TO A DOOR and not knowing the person... The cops didnt know what she was like just that her and her husband had a gun and she wouldn't stop approaching. I dont personally think the old lady would have killed anyone but you cant be too sure in situations like that.


[edit on 22-5-2010 by rjmelter]



posted on May, 22 2010 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by zerbot565
 


Such situations vary, but I am not saying an officer can just randomly go onto your property and serach around. They have to have a reason to beleive a crime has been committed and you are the one that did it, or they saw something that has been reported stolen or it looks like it. Situatsions like that do vary. In the case that a warrant has been served they have the right to search house and property in places where a human body could hide but they cant just go through drawers. where only an arm would fit... only places where the person you are looking for could hide and that includes property. But an officer if he sees something suspicious on your land as he drives by, he can look at it as long as there are no fences blocking his path to getting there. If it is viewable by all public eyes then an officer can also view it... should he think it deserves a closer look he can do so. SHOULD YOU SEE THIS you can ask him to leave your property, but if he notices that you are really nervous or you begin acting in a threatening manner THAT will open up a whole new can of worms. While officers do have discretion, just like lawyers, they have found loopholes in the law that allow them to do things that arent exactly covered in the laws of today.

I have found a very well written document to inform you about the tresspassing of cops if you would like to read it... HERE

It is PDF so you might want to download ADOBE Reader first

edit to add

and the situation in which I am referring to is on page 7 of that document

[edit on 22-5-2010 by rjmelter]



posted on May, 22 2010 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by Kailassa

Originally posted by rjmelter

... BECAUSE when a parent fails to raise their children in an appropriate manner, a criminal is born... and criminals dont have the same mind-set as the rest of us.


Don't generalise.

Plenty of us have had abysmal childhoods and chosen to act decently anyway. My childhood was an obscenity I've never quite recovered from, yet I've spent my life looking after others and not broken too many laws on the way. And all my dealings with police have been civil.

Crims who blame their behaviour onto their childhoods are insulting every decent person who went straight anyway.




You are right and I apologize, but I am more specifically speaking about the criminals proactive in criminality... I myself am a result of poor parenting and have had to go through a lot to get where I am now. It helps that my best friend's family fostered me psychologically. I still stand firm, however, that poor parenting (and fostering a kid... without raising them mentally/psychologically...) can and does form criminals. Some people choose to do better with their lives... while others simply do not. Over generalization is something that I am guilty of sometimes. Thanks for your reply


[edit on 22-5-2010 by rjmelter]



posted on May, 22 2010 @ 06:34 PM
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depressing

[edit on 5/22/2010 by dashar]



posted on May, 22 2010 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by rjmelter


The cop was called to respond to a call, that is almost like a warrant.
[edit on 21-5-2010 by rjmelter]


Care to show some evidence that a cop claiming to be on a call is almost like a warrant? Cops lie far to often to be taken at face value.

Just keep giving up your rights.

..Ex



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 01:41 AM
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Originally posted by rjmelter
reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


Would you care to provide evidence for your post? Im sure it exists somewhere, but I doubt it is as prevalent as you say... that you would have to guard yourself with a gun. I think thats called paranoia, and there is medication for that.

I highly doubt there are people impersonating cops where you live as frequently as you say... if there are you should contact your state agency and unsuspiciously take pictures for evidence. If said situation is true these guys need to be put to death or put in jail for 20 years. Im sure there are elements to your story that are missing... it sure sounds like it.


When I was living in the Bay Area, this was a frequent problem, and was often reported in the media. Fake cops driving fake police cars were assaulting and robbing people. It got to the point that drivers would often refuse to pull over for highway patrol, until they could reach a highly visible place to stop. This was only a few years ago, maybe 5 or 6.

I don't know where thisguyrighthere lives, but what he's saying isn't far-fetched. It's also not generally unheard of, especially since crime skyrocketed in several cities after the US recession hit... are you in another country, or maybe you live in the backcountry... ?

By the way, the bizarre evidence demands you gave to that poster, followed by the medicine recommendation, was very entertaining. Talk about irony.

[edit on 23-5-2010 by jem78]



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 08:36 AM
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The better way to deal with a census taker is to first have No Trespasing Signs Clearly posted and In Compliance with the laws where you live.

Remember Open Gates and Door are invitations for LEO's and Census takers.

Census takers are normal people just trying to make a buck. You shouldn't pull a gun on them. Tell them you are not going to fill out any forms and to leave your property. If they refuse to leave inform them they are trespassing on private property and the will be subject to arrest if they do not leave immediatly.

If they insist on staying Call 911 and place them under citizens arrest.

But if they are armed or make threats of violence pulling a gun may be needed. ( this is highly unlikely to happen ) ( but do remeber that they are federal employees and just like som postal workers they could loose it and snap. )

I sent my form in with only question #1 answered

About 3 weeks ago they came back and my wife told them we sent it in with only question #1 answered. That census worker threatend my wife with arrest if she did not immediatly fill out the form. She called me at work and I got to talk to the census taker and told her I will not answer any more questions in the census other than How many people live here.

If they want to arrest someone come get me. But they better pack a lunch. Cause it won't be easy.

Molon Labe!



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 08:41 AM
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reply to post by v3_exceed
 


If an LEO is not called or dispatched to an address he can be charged with trespassing.

It seems lately the Cops are gearing up like they are the Military. Just about all the cops i know have level III / IV Body armor and AR-15 in their patrol cars along with Hi Cap Pistols.

Welcome to the Improved Socialist Police State.

Taking Stalin and Hitler's Ideas and putting them to "good" Use here in Amerika since 2001!



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by v3_exceed
 


talk about twisting my words there buddy,

When a cop is called to a location... it means a violation is in progress. He can search around saying he is looking for someone... because he is. He has more rights when he is called to a location to enforce the laws rather than if he is just on patrol. That was my point.



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by jem78
 


What exactly are you trying to say about medicine?


It is far fetched for people to drive around in unmarked cars... hes saying its very common, i find that hard to believe. I live in a city of about 30,000 people so yes it is kind of small... If yall have so many occurences yall should set these guys up and catch them. End it.



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