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It is Settled - Obama NOT a Natural Born Citizen!

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posted on May, 21 2010 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by kozmo
 


Nice job avoiding the question.

However there are two common terms to this issue, funny the article and the op failed to show this

one is stated by the op:


Jus sanguinis

Under certain circumstances, US citizenship can be acquired via jus sanguinis from one's parents. The following conditions affect children born outside the US and its outlying possessions to married parents (special conditions affect children born out of wedlock: see below):[5]

* If both parents are US citizens, the child is a citizen if either of the parents has ever lived in the US prior to the child's birth
* If one parent is a US citizen and the other parent is a US national, the child is a citizen if the US citizen parent has lived in the US for a continuous period of at least one year prior to the child's birth
* If one parent is a US citizen and the other parent is not, the child is a citizen if
o the US citizen parent has been "physically present"[6] in the US before the child's birth for a total period of at least five years, and
o at least two of those five years were after the US citizen parent's fourteenth birthday.


The other:

Jus soli

As of 2006
Important Topic Updates
, United States Federal law (8 U.S.C. § 1401) defines ten categories of person who are United States citizens from birth. According to that law the following acquire citizenship by jus soli:

* "a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof"
* "a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe" (see Indian Citizenship Act of 1924).
* "a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States"
* "a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person"

[url=
So are you really implying that because Obama's parents were not US citizens then he isn't either? When clearly he is because of his birth in Hawaii?


Birthright citizenship in the United States of America refers a person's acquisition of United States citizenship by virtue of the circumstances of his or her birth. It contrasts with citizenship acquired in other ways, for example by naturalization later in life. Birthright citizenship may be conferred either by jus soli and jus sanguinis. Under United States law, any person born within the United States (including the overseas territories of Puerto Rico, Guam, the U.S. Virgin Islands, and the Northern Mariana Islands) [1] and subject to its jurisdiction is automatically granted U.S. citizenship, [2] as are many (though not all) children born to American citizens overseas.

wiki

You are also aware this hearing in the Senate a law does not make? It was just apart of the current law and has been for a Longtime.

peace
LDF extra DIV




posted on May, 21 2010 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 

Well, you were right - you predicted my response. Yes, I do believe that there is an inherent difference in "Natural" and "Native". If a pregant French woman were vactioning at Disneyland and had her child, that child would be "Native", but not "Natural".

There also arises the question of duel citizenship which remains unanswered. There is a prevailing belief that holding duel citizenship automatically precludes one from holding the status of "Natural-born" but still retain their citizenship.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by LDragonFire
 


*sigh* Nothing you posted has anything to do with the "Natural-born" argument. Secondly, Obama wasn't born in 2006 so I'm not even sure why you included that.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 03:06 PM
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reply to post by kozmo
 


Sorry, a blog is not a credible news source, and I will take Obama's word before a blog.

Considering I do not see Obama as a credible source of anything real that's saying a lot.

I cannot stand blog's being used as a source because they are made up by people with agendas.

While I am not a birther neither am I someone who supports anything Obama has to say.

I did not support Bush either because he was a puppet too.

He is a typical politician, someone who uses double-speak, and does what he is told.

Obamaland : Cotton Candy, Gumdrops, and Rainbow Dreams, This is the Land of Collusion

Obama is just another puppet on a string.

But then again so is every President who gets into office.

Because they belong to one Secret Society or another.

They are bought and sold as a political commodity by lobbyists and special interest groups.

The Kennedy family most likely is pulling the strings this time around.

Sandie Shaw - Puppet On A String (1967)


This thread belongs in the Hoax Forum.

[edit on 21-5-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 03:06 PM
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Oh and one more thing

In case you think he can't be a natural born American citizen because he is black from the link provide above


In 1862, Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase sent a query to Attorney General Edward Bates asking whether or not "colored men" can be citizens of the United States. Attorney General Bates responded on On November 29, 1862, with a 27 page opinion concluding, "I conclude that the free man of color, mentioned in your letter, if born in the United States, is a citizen of the United States, ... .[16][italics in original]" In the course of that opinion, Bates commented at some length on the nature of citizenship, and wrote,

... our constitution, in speaking of natural born citizens, uses no affirmative language to make them such, but only recognizes and reaffirms the universal principle, common to all nations, and as old as political society, that the people born in a country do constitute the nation, and, as individuals, are natural members of the body politic.

If this be a true principle, and I do not doubt it, it follows that every person born in a country is, at the moment of birth, prima facie a citizen; and who would deny it must take upon himself the burden of proving some great disfranchisement strong enough to override the natural born right as recognized by the Constitution in terms the most simple and comprehensive, and without any reference to race or color, or any other accidental circumstance.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 03:10 PM
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What's even worst, these so-called leaders of ours/USA make these Rules/Laws from Washington D.C and it's not even a State in USA just a Hill that 'They' make the Laws from that we all have to abide to..except apprarently 'Them'. D.C. not a state..I'm still trying to figure how that's legal.

I heard something very ...well you judge; with all this commotion in Arizona and the immigarates-tion- and wanting to ask people for their ID..'papers' someone on TV ? said someone should ask Obama 'where's YOUR papers". hehehe

Truth, Love and Light










reply to post by kozmo
 



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by kozmo
reply to post by OldDragger
 


Not capable of reading the article, I guess.
That is a shame as it explains in pretty clear detail the issues with "Natural Born" versus "Native born". But, oh well, why bother having laws if we do not enforce the laws?


Even by Vattel's own definition in which the article states, "born on the soil of parents who are its citizens," then Obama is a natural born citizen.

It never states, Kozmo, that the parents have to be natural-born citizens. It just states the parents have to be US citizens, both of which Obama's parents were.

This is an invalid argument coming from you...

I said it once, I'll say it again: if you don't like Obama, vote against him in 2012. Stop trying to pull the birther card.

It's quite sad and pathetic some people are still holding onto this...



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 03:20 PM
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Honestly, even if Obama himself came out and said "Okay, it's true, I was born in Kenya and not Hawaii". Do you really think he would be impeached? By the time all the lawyers hem and haw about it his term will be over anyway.

In short, if the "birthers" win, will Obama get booted out of office? I highly doubt it. It would most certainly ruin his chances for reelection though.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


As with all puppets, there has to be a string intact in order to keep them doing the puppetmasters' dance. What's the string with Obama? I think that it is very likely this exact issue. I do think that someone somewhere does have proof that he is ineligible for office. Think about it... Obama's the spitting image of a narcissist. What is the ultimate drug for the narcissist junkie? Perceived power. Uh, maybe becoming the Preisdent of the United States of America? There was one point when Obama's demeanor changed drastically. It was shortly after he was elected, I'm thinking it was in December. I remember thinking that he looked and acted like a totally different person from one week to the next week. I found it very strange really. I think this is the time period when he got the word from his puppetmasters that they would be calling the shots and not him.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 03:23 PM
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reply to post by kozmo
 



Well, you were right - you predicted my response. Yes, I do believe that there is an inherent difference in "Natural" and "Native". If a pregant French woman were vactioning at Disneyland and had her child, that child would be "Native", but not "Natural".


And that is where we will always disagree on this. There is nothing in the constitution or any legislation that confirms my belief or your belief is the absolute law.

It's all semantics really...because I would almost disagree with your hypothetical scenario of the French women. I would say that child is more "natural" than "native"....semantically. To be "native" I would think her parents would have to be "native". Not really trying to start an argument about this...just pointing out how up for interpretation all of this is.


There also arises the question of duel citizenship which remains unanswered. There is a prevailing belief that holding duel citizenship automatically precludes one from holding the status of "Natural-born" but still retain their citizenship.


Well that is another topic altogether. It is a stick situation because Kenya can say that since his father is from Kenya then Obama is an automatic citizen. I guess that could open up a country anywhere to say that if you were born on Earth...than you are a citizen of our country because they see all humans as their "citizens". So it's hard to get away from something like that or to place responsibility on someone for having that sort of "duel citizenship". It was automatically place on him...he didn't choose it. Just like your French child in your scenario...if it was reversed and an American citizen couple was visiting a country that had a similar law...would that child now always be suspected on their loyalties because they have duel citizenship because of vacation plans?


None of it is well defined...at this point it is all personal opinion.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by Mak Manto
 


Sorry Mak, WRONG!!! Obama's father was NOT an American citizen. He was a Kenyan Citizen and British Subject. In fact, he conferred Kenyan Citizenship to his son, our president.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 03:45 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Points well made outkast!
As always, thank you for your civil input on the matter. Yes, I'm afraid this is likely an area where you and I will suffer disagreement. I do, however, agree with your semantic take on the use of "Native" and "Natural" - it does seem quite contrary to logic.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 03:56 PM
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Kozmo it's apparent you have really no idea what you are talking about. Do you really think they'd let something like citizenship slip by so Obama can come into power? Honestly. Are you really THAT scared of the world that you'd come upon something like that?

Oh and Obama being a Marxist? Oh lord, that's so idiotic I'm not even going to argue against it



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by Iamonlyhuman
 


Ask the Kennedy family.

I'm not telling what I know about Obama's strings even on threat of torture.

And I believe, personally, the bastard began the Birth Certificate rumors.

What better way to divide and conquer a nation through Chinese Whispers?


Quote from : Wikipedia : Chinese Whispers

In the game variously known as Chinese whispers, Telephone, Broken Telephone, Whisper Down the Lane, Gossip, Arab Phone (from the French Le téléphone arabe), and Stille Post (Silent Post), the first player whispers a phrase or sentence to the next player.

Each player successively whispers what that player believes he or she heard to the next.

The last player announces the statement to the entire group.

Errors typically accumulate in the retellings, so the statement announced by the last player differs significantly, and often amusingly, from the one uttered by the first.

The game is often played by children as a party game or in the playground.

It is often invoked as a metaphor for cumulative error, especially the inaccuracies as rumours or gossip spread, or, more generally, for the unreliability of human recollection.

In the United States, "Telephone" is the most common name for the game.

The name "Chinese whispers" reflects the former stereotype in Europe of the Chinese language as being incomprehensible.

It is little-used in the United States and may be considered offensive.

It remains the common British English name for the game


Chinese Whispers


This is one of those useless rumors which is meaningless except to the idiot who started it, it causes division, rumors, gossip, and speculation.

Imagine that in a conspiracy theory website like ATS.


And people fall for it hook, line, and sinker.

This is why I'm neither a Republican nor Democrat but a registered Independent.

You can tell Obama I called him a bastard too because if you don't I will.

Straight to his face when I meet him someday soon.

[edit on 21-5-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by kozmo
reply to post by Mak Manto
 


Sorry Mak, WRONG!!! Obama's father was NOT an American citizen. He was a Kenyan Citizen and British Subject. In fact, he conferred Kenyan Citizenship to his son, our president.


He was in America on a scholarship. He wasn't an illegal citizen or however you want to put it.

That makes Obama a natural born citizen.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by ProjectJimmy
You Birthers are never, ever going to let this one die are you? Why is it so important to you to get President Obama booted? What is so threatening to you about him? Do not give me the "he's not a natural born citizen" line because it's tired and done. What about him is such a threat to you that he must be dragged through this never-ending mudbath by you people?


Because he is a socialist snake in the grass that is destroying this country more then bush EVER did in 8 years time.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by Mak Manto

Originally posted by kozmo
reply to post by OldDragger
 


Not capable of reading the article, I guess.
That is a shame as it explains in pretty clear detail the issues with "Natural Born" versus "Native born". But, oh well, why bother having laws if we do not enforce the laws?


Even by Vattel's own definition in which the article states, "born on the soil of parents who are its citizens," then Obama is a natural born citizen.

It never states, Kozmo, that the parents have to be natural-born citizens. It just states the parents have to be US citizens, both of which Obama's parents were.

This is an invalid argument coming from you...

I said it once, I'll say it again: if you don't like Obama, vote against him in 2012. Stop trying to pull the birther card.

It's quite sad and pathetic some people are still holding onto this...


Oh my god, how many times does this need to be said? HIS FATHER WAS A BRITISH CITIZEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 05:51 PM
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Originally posted by QuetzalcoatlAlien
Kozmo it's apparent you have really no idea what you are talking about. Do you really think they'd let something like citizenship slip by so Obama can come into power? Honestly. Are you really THAT scared of the world that you'd come upon something like that?

Oh and Obama being a Marxist? Oh lord, that's so idiotic I'm not even going to argue against it



I swear, we are all living in bizarro world now, even many democrats realize he has, at the very least in their minds, marxist/socialist "tendencies" now, are you Robert Gibbs? Axelrod, is that you?
wow...just WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some people can fool most everyone once in awhile but morons can only fool themselves.



[edit on 21-5-2010 by I_am_Spartacus]

[edit on 21-5-2010 by I_am_Spartacus]



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by kozmo
But again, rules and laws don't apply to the politicians - they break them at will.


What rules and laws? Chertoff said, “It is my understanding that a natural born citizen has two parents who are citizens.” and Leahy agreed (supposedly). A statement of opinion doe NOT make a rule or law.


This is not a resolution, it's a blog!


How do you explain the fact that, if two illegal immigrants have a child on US soil, that child is a natural born citizen?



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by kozmo
But again, rules and laws don't apply to the politicians - they break them at will.


What rules and laws? Chertoff said, “It is my understanding that a natural born citizen has two parents who are citizens.” and Leahy agreed (supposedly). A statement of opinion doe NOT make a rule or law.


It was regarding Sen McCain being born outside the US, he was born on a us military base but even if he wasn't born on a us base his parents were US citizens so he would have also have been born a us citizen. This has nothing to do with Obama who was born in Hawaii and makes him a us citizen by right of birth here, regardless of his parents.


This is not a resolution, it's a blog!


lol a blog set up like a legit news story


How do you explain the fact that, if two illegal immigrants have a child on US soil, that child is a natural born citizen?


He can't its the law and has been for a very long time.



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