US cartoonist apologises over Facebook Muhammad row

reply to post by inforeal


Human Rights has been for the most part one of the biggest struggles on the planet. Look at how Women were treated in the US before the Woman's right's movement.

All of these organizations that oppress people are wrong and we all have long fought for freedom. The reality is, we need to continue to move forward with human rights and continue to fight for freedom.

I am a really nice guy . Really

But doesn't this story just make you want to draw thousands of Muhammads and drop them from a plane over Pakistan and watch them all go nuts???

Maybe if the absurdity of the thing was thus highlighted a few people might actually start to question the premise??

Then again, I have to admit ignorance as to how the phenomenon of "saving face" works in Middle Eastern societies where an insult is a far worse thing than actually doing physical harm, or perhaps even killing.

Anyway, its one the more ridiculous extremes of religious beliefs that is in dire need of being gotten rid of.

reply to post by wayno


Actually it kind of does. But since I can not draw I post it hear and hope other people will become aware of what is going on in this sick world populated by religious nut jobs who what to take away everyone elses choice.

[edit on 21-5-2010 by RedGolem]

I think she did the right thing by apologizing, it's a mature thing to do.

Here's why... although I am not religious I've studied various religions and understand why this is offensive. Muslims believe that only God is allowed to create a human and therefore depicting a human image, even as a photo or a drawing, is impersonating God and placing yourself on that level. That's why all of Islamic art is abstract and featuring geometric shapes and not human form. Taking this a but further would be drawing an image of their prophet.

I find it the easiest to make a point via an analogy so allow me to use one to describe how I view this:

Let's say that the Jews made it a part of their religion to make fun of holocaust illegal, and a cartoon did an episode where it was made fun of and depicted slaughter of Jews in a funny way or promoted Nazis. Jews get offended by this and call the network anti-semites and request the removal of such material and an apology. I'm pretty sure this would be accepted as normal and the requests would be honored.

Yes, I agree, the group that threatened with violence was absolutely wrong and that is not the right way to ask a network to remove offensive material, but that doesn't make the cartoonists offense any more acceptable for a large number of people. They still offended with their ignorance, the same way a Jewish community would be offended if they drew gas chambers and made it into a joke.

Our freedom of speech is very important and we should not compromise as far is it does not offend the international community by our ignorance or arrogance. Each time we blatantly disregard other nations or religions or ideologies they hate us more and more as a country, and our international credibility drops lower and lower. This is unfortunate and I know that many of us Americans really don't care and will keep offending just because we can. However, I don't consider those civilized actions. She did the right thing by apologizing. So should Matt and Trey if they were man enough.

Originally posted by Kharron
I think she did the right thing by apologizing, it's a mature thing to do.

Thank you for your comment, it was very well worded.
Saying it was the mature thing to do. Well can't the people who don't like her cartoon do the mature thing also?
Just because some people don't like some thing should not mean that no one can draw what ever it is this group does not like. If you think that is the way the would should be run, I would suggest you read Fahrenheit 451.

reply to post by RedGolem


I think the group that acted this way also and threatened by violence were quite honestly, douche bags.

It would be a mature thing for them to offer apologies as well. I think we all know, though, that neither they nor Matt and Trey will offer any at all.

Unfortunate, and we made more enemies and actions of a couple will once again affect the many.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I have defended Muslims while talking to ignorant people for quite some time. I am done doing that. Until "mainstream" Muslims separate themselves from the vocal "minority" of their religion who call for violence, then I am grouping them all together. This is my biggest problem with this religion: if there are reasonable members of this faith, they remain silent. In this case, I will take their silence as agreement with the radical sector of Islam. The ball is in their court now. I want to see, at least Western Muslims speak out against these murderous radicals. When that happens I will gladly defend them again in the face of ignorant (usually Christian Americans) who equate them to primitive "heathens".

reply to post by Kharron


No. No. No. In terms of free speech, we must take, what I call, the Family Guy approach: either nothing is sacred or everything is sacred. Muslims should not get special treatment just because their religion says so and just because they threaten violence. Jews have been oppressed throughout history but you don't see them threatening violence towards cartoonists! Maturity?! We're talking about a cartoon that makes fart jokes!!! C'mon people! This is fundamental free speech stuff here! You're either in favor of free speech or you're not. I personally love talking smack on every organized religion that I am aware of and will not exclude a particular religion from my criticisms simply because they think I am a blasphemer. Just because their religion says so does not make it true or valid.

We need to all grow spines and stand up to these backwards, oppressive, intolerant a-holes.

reply to post by Kharron

Muslims believe that only God is allowed to create a human and therefore depicting a human image, even as a photo or a drawing, is impersonating God and placing yourself on that level.

Just because they believe that doesn't mean the whole rest of the world that isn't Muslim has to go along with it, or think its even a sane conclusion for that matter. While that belief has resulted in many beautiful designs and buildings, it doesn't mean there is any intrinsic worth to the "don't draw people" rule itself.

Let's say that the Jews made it a part of their religion to make fun of holocaust illegal, ...

And that is just the point: rules such as these are made by people; not god. They deserve no more respect than any other of man's very imperfect pronouncements. People always like to impose their beliefs because there is no intrinsic truth to them that would make people volunteer to follow them.

Islam is not immune to this nonsense. It is a man made religion like all the other ones, and just as faulty. We give religions too much freedom in this world to do whatever they wish as it is. Their (potential for destructive ) power needs to be reigned in IMHO.

This isn't an attack on all muslims...but to the group of muslims that think it is ok to threaten death over a drawing.

Get over it. And the only way I see that happening is by something like what this cartoonist started. Everyone needs to start drawing the prophet Muhammad everywhere. They can't kill everyone...and they will eventually get over it.

When this cartoonist comes out and apologises or when South Park censors their cartoon...it just empowers those muslims that would threaten people over a drawing to do it even more.

South Park started out with a cartoon of Jesus fighting Santa over the rights to Christmas...but they are going to censor this??? They have insulted every race, nationality, gender, sexual preference...but this is a line that they are forced to censor??? Because some whackos will kill someone over it???

Well congrats...you just gave into their threats and in doing so have told them that they are correct and have every right to make threats over a cartoon.


I have nothing against muslims...I will even defend when people make blanket statements about them...but this group of muslims that will threaten to kill anyone who draws muhammad....I do have something against them...and they need to be stopped.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher


Get over it. And the only way I see that happening is by something like what this cartoonist started. Everyone needs to start drawing the prophet Muhammad everywhere. They can't kill everyone...and they will eventually get over it.

When this cartoonist comes out and apologises or when South Park censors their cartoon...it just empowers those muslims that would threaten people over a drawing to do it even more.

outkast
very well said. I think what I quoted you saying above is about the best non violent way to help change attitudes in this regard. The Cartoonist did what she though was necessary for what ever her reason are. As far as the television channel censoring Mohammad that very much does empower these fanatics, and that is bad for everyone in the long run. So maby we should start a boy cot of the television station for censoring the South park episode!

Kandinsky posted this link in another thread, I don't suppose he'll mind me posting it here.

It got a giggle or three out of me!

www.jesusandmo.net...

Thousands have taken part in Draw Mohommad day.
He ar is a link where you can see many of the drawing. A lot of them are pretty good.

I agree that she shouldn't have to appologize. Freedom cannot and should not be attacked this way. We DO have to be careful to not lump every Muslim in this catagory, just like we should not stereotype every christian, athiest, democrat, republican, soldier, actor, scientist, activist, politician and so on. However this is a situation unique to Islam and it's followers. I congratulate her on taking a stand.

Originally posted by Nyrossius Maxim
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

I have defended Muslims while talking to ignorant people for quite some time. I am done doing that. Until "mainstream" Muslims separate themselves from the vocal "minority" of their religion who call for violence, then I am grouping them all together. This is my biggest problem with this religion: if there are reasonable members of this faith, they remain silent. In this case, I will take their silence as agreement with the radical sector of Islam. The ball is in their court now. I want to see, at least Western Muslims speak out against these murderous radicals. When that happens I will gladly defend them again in the face of ignorant (usually Christian Americans) who equate them to primitive "heathens".

How to resist and challenge people, who do not tolerate criticism of their life, hatred, intolerance, brainwashing, acceptance of honor killing, other forms of degrading punishment, exploitation, death threats, violence and curses?

Highest likely, the only result you will achieve, is to get ten folds back and more The kind of people you suggest would oppose fanatical extremists, are probably exactly the opposite... Non violent. How could such resistance be realistic and how they should be able to practice it in the real world, when they, apparently, don't appear to carry hatred and aggression as a part of their mindset and hearts?

If it's not possible to conduct a sensible conversation with a group of "control freaks". What other options are there?

I have respect enough to not draw pictures of Mohammed and parade around a local mosque. That would be a major insult and I would probably deserve a punch in the face (or two) but not death.

When cartoons are posted in a non-Muslim newspaper, that's freedom of speech. If you don't like the newspaper, don't buy it and don't read it. You don't boycott an entire country because of the actions of a single newspaper!! Get a grip!

Since Muslims made such a big deal about the cartoons, this is to be expected. If we don't make days like "Draw Mohammed Day", then they will know that killing, violence and intimidation are the way to achieve their goals. Unfortunately, that's not how it works in civilized society.

In civilized society, we learn people's weaknesses by what they get emotional about, then we continue to poke at the open wound until they do something stupid and get their butts wupped or they get over it. Ok, perhaps this is more primal than civilized.

Now they must face the rest of the world, whom with they must learn to live in peace (I'm sure as hell not converting or dying so Islam can take over).

What goes around, comes around. Violence begets violence.

Some people have so little faith... Do they honestly believe Mohammed or Allah need to be protected from other people created by Allah? If we are all of the same God then He created every religion. There are no infidels - we are all equal. Stop worshipping books made by man, IMO.

"God has no religion." --Ghandi

Originally posted by YouAreDreaming
reply to post by inforeal

 

Human Rights has been for the most part one of the biggest struggles on the planet. Look at how Women were treated in the US before the Woman's right's movement.

All of these organizations that oppress people are wrong and we all have long fought for freedom. The reality is, we need to continue to move forward with human rights and continue to fight for freedom.

yet, Muslim religion wants us to revert back to were women have no rights. When can we get rid of religion? Why not go back to the old days of solitary practitioner? This is why I am glad I am a deist at least my religion hasn't killed anybody...........yet.

But it makes me wonder what if I drew pakistani and his name was Muhammad? Then I inscribe his name on the paper?

LOL There is no patch for human stupidity!

reply to post by sandwiches

What goes around, comes around. Violence begets violence.

Just make sure the violence gets returned to the particular individual(s) who did it in the first place and not just anyone with a similar ethnic background, religion or skin colour.

I think that is where people go wrong. They get antagonistic towards anyone who even vaguely resembles the ones they think are guilty.

I suppose that could be said of the Muslim extremists as well who are prepared to hate on any westerner or non-Muslim indiscriminately.

Maybe we should all just agree to get rid of the extremists in our midst everywhere, and do everyone else in all our societies a favour.