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Muslim response to Draw Muhammad Day, Tit-for-Tat

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posted on May, 21 2010 @ 02:03 PM
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I would not call this tit for tat. An example of tit for tat is I call your mother fat, then you call my mother ugly.

Here, the Muhammed Drawers called the muslims' mothers fat. The Muslims' responded by blowing up a building.




posted on May, 21 2010 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by damwel

I think you give yourself away right there. I have many Muslim friends who respect me and my right to believe and worship God how I choose. Where did you gain this profound knowledge about Muslims? Oh and I have read the Quran btw


Come on, really? Have you really read the Qur'an? Surely you remember some of it? They are often misinterpreted, sure, but it clearly states that Pagan's should be killed unless they accept Islam, that any convert from Islam is to be killed and many more passages which are absolute gold for extremists... all they have to do is use the teachings in the context that will have maximum effect, and sadly most mosques allow the hard line teaching to continue, preaching hate. You know this as well as I do. I'm sure your Muslim friends are westernized and perhaps not so interested in religion - there are plenty of those, but for the most part the standard belief is Islam superiority and no respect for other religion.

I'm not dogging Islam solely. I have read many religious texts from the Torah to the Bhagavad Gita, the Qur'an and Bible, and through that I found myself to be an Atheist. Some of those texts have very profound moral and ethical values, which I can use in my day to day life, but the majority, to me, is fable, myth and fantasy. Not something to base a 'faith' on.

[edit on 21-5-2010 by Pr0t0]



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 06:21 PM
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reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint
 


No they have not blown up any buildings over this... they are drawing pictures of the Holocaust... tit-for-tat IMO.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 06:58 PM
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I looked at the OP's link to Facebook, the Everybody Draw Holocaust page and I have to say that I don't see much to complain about, after a cursory scroll down the page. The drawings, and some photos, I saw were all done by professional cartoonists or photographers. There is a high level of skill shown, at least in what I saw. Cartoons are always somewhat puerile, no matter what the topic, but I didn't see anything like some of the garbage making "fun" of Mohammed.

Also the "holocaust" referred to is not the Nazi holocaust on the Jews but the Israeli "holocaust" on the Palestinians.

That to me is a very mild response to the supposed insults to Mohammed that have caused such a stir in the Muslim world.. Kudos to the people of Islam! I never cease to be amazed at how nice they are despite having such a violent holy book in the Koran.

I believe that Muslims are overly sensitive on the subject of Mohammed. Perhaps it is because he could be perceived as a weak link in the transmission from Allah to the Muslim people. I think there is something to this. There is no question that the Koran seems to be a response to criticism of Arabs by the Jews, back in the 7th century. Read between the lines in the first few pages of the Koran and you will find it.

I hate to say it but it looks as if the Jews of the time, through running down and deriding their neighbors, "found a hammer for their heads."



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 07:08 PM
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I draw a picture of your prophet.

In response you allude to the slaughter and torture of several millions of people.

Yep, that's equivalent.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 07:09 PM
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reply to post by inforeal
 


All they were trying to do is defend freedom of speech from a fringe group of religious zealots, they didn't expect a sort of Spanish Inquisition.



Defending freedom of speech is important, if those religious zealots do anything violent and stupid because of this little protest it will show them as the barbarians they are and stir the world against them even more. In case you didn't know we had death threats being sent to the creators of South Park simply for wanting to depict Mohammad, why stand for such bullying? Why censor the many to support the peculiar religious insecurities of a few zealots especially if they are going to send death threats about it.

Its one thing to get offended and write a letter in to protest the depiction of Mohammad but when they start threatening lives IN OUR OWN COUNTRY, well then a little non-violent protest like Draw Mohammad Day is just what the doctor ordered.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 07:13 PM
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Originally posted by Aeons
I draw a picture of your prophet.

In response you allude to the slaughter and torture of several millions of people.

Yep, that's equivalent.


That doesn't seem to be what they have done at all.

The holocaust that they seem to be hjighlighting is a "holocaust" perpetrated on the Palestinians by the Israelis. They seem to be implying that Israel today is the modern counterpart to the Nazis, at least as far as the Palestinians, and much of the Islamic world is concerned. (Personally, I would argue for the United States in that role, but that's another topic.)



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 07:15 PM
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I'm sorry I can always enjoy some good cartoons, it doesn't matter who is playing the childish part. If it is art to one, then art to another.

But eey I'm just an dumbass, don't blame me.

So who is going to draw some priests???



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by Pr0t0
One Muslim poster related the disrespect of Muhammed to someone painting insults of your mother on their house... which is nonsense. No living person ever met Muhammad. If he or Allah are talking to you, you're just thinking - yes in your head - it's a good thing, carry on doing it but believing it's your own thoughts and maybe you can drop this nonsense.


It's your opinion that their beliefs are all a figment of their imagination. I'm sure many Muslims would think the same about your views. Essentially, what you appear to be saying is that you're right and they're wrong, so they should have to adopt your perspective and come round to your point of view; in my opinion, that is not a very progressive, helpful or relevant attitude to have on this matter.

The comparison to someone drawing insults about someone's mother on their house is a correct analogy. There's absolutely nothing to say that someone should get offended if their mother is insulted, just as there's nothing to say that someone should get insulted if a religious figure is insulted.
However, it's clear that many people would get offended if you insult their mother, just as it's clear that many people will get offended if you insult an important figure or tenet of their religious beliefs.

The motivation for insulting someone's mother or an important figure in their religion can only be to anger or upset them, and therefore it's extremely unpleasant, uncivilised and antisocial to do so.
There's absolutely no reason why someone has to draw the prophet Mohammad in the current climate, except to stir up antagonistic feelings and unneccesarily add to a divided world.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by Dumbass
 

Believe it or not, I'm with you. I love cartoons. In another thread people were supposed to suggest Mohammed cartoons and I had a suggestion.

The caption would be "Mohammed on Holiday in Gstaad." The picture would be an Alpine backround and two skis in the snow. Two ski poles would be standing upright on either side of the skis. Between the ski poles Mohammed would be invisible, in accordance with Sharia law.

The paparrazzi would go nuts if Sharia law was enforced with all celebrities. Bouncers throwing Keifer Sutherland out of a pub would be seen grappling with empty space. Britney Spears palace of pleasure, a vast emptiness. It has it's humorous aspect.



[edit on 21-5-2010 by ipsedixit]



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 07:39 PM
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To be honest, the whole "draw Mohamed" thing is nothing but a needles provocation. How would Christians react if Muslims created a "draw Jesus #ing a donkey day"?

The whole idea is just plain stupid and only serves one purpose, to further infuriate extremists on both sides of the fence.

Do I believe drawing Mohamed is a bad thing? NO, I'm agnostic, so I really don't care...but I do acknowledge that it's a giant provocation. I don't see why people can't just be tolerant and respect other peoples' beliefs.

To be honest, Muslim extremists, or Evangelist hardcore Christians...they're both the ones messing it up for the rest of us normal people. I wish we could just lock them up in a room, and let them battle it out without annoying us moderates or atheists/agnostics. In a few hundred years, when science will triumph over religion for good, people will look back at this and laugh at how ridiculous and stupid we acted.

Just like we laugh at people burning witches in the middle ages...



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 08:26 PM
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reply to post by MrXYZ
 


If Muslims only responded in offensive cartoons, or protested, boycotted or demonstrated against these "blasphemous" cartoons, all would be well. But they, or at least some of them, threaten death and destruction. That's the big difference. We are calling them out. If we concede to their standards, they win in their attempt to suppress freedom of speech.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by Nyrossius Maxim
reply to post by MrXYZ
 


If Muslims only responded in offensive cartoons, or protested, boycotted or demonstrated against these "blasphemous" cartoons, all would be well. But they, or at least some of them, threaten death and destruction. That's the big difference. We are calling them out. If we concede to their standards, they win in their attempt to suppress freedom of speech.


You're generalizing an entire people based on the actions of a few extremists...dunno about you, but to me, that seems wrong.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 09:45 PM
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reply to post by MrXYZ
 


Not at all. I'm merely insisting that equality in terms of freedom of expression exists. If it is ok to bash one religion, and it is, then it is ok to bash Islam.

I want "mainstream" Muslims to stand up and say "this is offensive, we will not partake in it, but life is sacred and we respect others' rights to express themselves. May Allah have mercy on their souls."

I'm listening, but I'm not hearing anything...



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 09:55 PM
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reply to post by Nyrossius Maxim
 


You can do that to a lot of moderates without getting killed


I got plenty of Muslim friends, and they know I'm agnostic...I question their faith a lot, and they're perfectly fine with it. They're still my friends, and they consider me a friend as well. I had clients in Saudi Arabia who are pretty hardcore Muslims (as in, they will quit a meeting and go pray leaving me sitting in the office all on my own), and whenever we go for dinner, sooner or later they find out I'm agnostic. In those instances, they always question my "beliefs", but they're NEVER hostile in the least...more curious as to why I don't believe than being angry at me for not believing.



posted on May, 22 2010 @ 03:38 PM
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so i'm a muslim pakistani myself but let me make it clear that I'm not the religious type and my basis of thought does not come from my religion.

But this whole draw muhammad day even i find offensive. To non muslims he is a "fictional character " so it's obviously not a big deal to them BUT to muslims who keep this man whether real or not in the highest regard it is a very sensitive issue. Draw Muhammad day shows a clear disregard and disrespect for someone else's beliefs and that's really not okay. Some people may justify drawing Muhammad as their right to freedom of expression. Muslims make no pictorial representations of the divine so please, try and respect that.

If my teacher insults me i don't call her a bitch to her face and say "it's freedom of speech" and go all liberal ass on her.

A lot of people who speak against Islam don't know anything about it. How can you form an opinion about something you know nothing about except for what the media shows? The media shows you people who are fundamentalists and I assure you not every Muslim comes with a bomb tied to their backs. Such opinions are naive.

So please, if you'd like to form an opinion about Islam do your reading. Read about Prophet Muhammad's life and read the Quran before you begin to contradict it.
Live and let live little people!



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by jujubug
But this whole draw muhammad day even i find offensive. . . . Muslims make no pictorial representations of the divine so please, try and respect that.


I'm just wondering, and I put the question respectfully, would cartoons where Mohammed was invisible, as in "Mohammed Holidaying in Gstaad" (described in an earlier post of mine), be considered OK and admissable by Muslims, or is one not to approach the subject of Mohammed with any feeling of levity at all?

In the culture of Europe and the America's, except in places dominated by paranoid dictators, all subjects great and small are considered fair game for cartoonists.

Powerful politicians, church leaders and even God himself are expected to be able to take some good natured ribbing. It's considered a mark of a strong character to put up with such things with good humour in our culture. When somebody "loses it" in the face of that kind of satirical attention, many believe it brings up the question, "Is this person/institution fit for the position they occupy?"

Many people know other people whom one cannot criticize. Sometimes family members, or co-workers have very nervous dispostions or fragile personalities that one must always tread lightly around and never, never criticize. People like that are not considered normal. Their friends may have an unspoken understanding that the individual in question may very well be in need of psychiatric attention.

Many in the European/American cultural block believe that is the case with Islam. Unfortunately, Islam is not like Aunt Betty or Billy the confused little boy who lives across the street. It is much much harder to tip toe around an entire culture of a billion people in the modern world.

To treat that culture in the manner to which it became accustomed, in the thousand years or so after the hijra, is a very tall order. It would require a radical alteration of one of the fundamental behaviors (freedom of speech) which has made our own culture great and which we have struggled for over the centuries, over and over again, against totalitarian tendencies within our culture.

Do you see the problem our culture has with the demand (not to portray Mohammed) made upon it, by Islam?



[edit on 23-5-2010 by ipsedixit]



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by Pr0t0
 


Let me change the metaphor then. Tit for tat is I call your mother fat and you call my mom ugly.

Here, the muhammed drawers called the Muslims' moms fat. The Muslims responded by going up to somebody whose daughter was just abducted and killed by a pedophile-rapist and telling them their daughter was a slut, had sex with half the men in town, and looks really sexy getting suffocated.

Sorry, but making fun of religious taboos is not the same as making fun of the holocaust. I'd hate to see how low these guys would go if I drew a picture of a woman without a burqa eating a ham sandwich and drinking a beer.



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by jujubug
 


Muslims should not have a hissy fit every time somebody offends Muslim religious taboos. They should just ignore it and agree to disagree.

Hindus don't riot or get their panties in a bunch every time McDonald's serves a beef hamburger in the US.

You don't see Catholics threatening violence because people in China are using birth control.

You don't see Mormons going ape when people in Italy drink coffee and wine.

Why should Muslim religious sensibilities get any special treatment? If we have to cave in because Muslims don't like us drawing Muhammed, what will be next? Will we all have to live in cocoons fearing that we might violate somebody's religious sensibilities?

[edit on 23-5-2010 by hotpinkurinalmint]



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 05:48 PM
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how many of you have actually been following these forums on facebook? responding?

i learned a few days ago that this is no longer about freedom of speech and censorship. that concept is out the door.

what now prevails is extreme hate speech, inciting and threats. it's pervasive, it's inciteful.. alot borders on illegal conduct.

i believe some of those sites are spoof sites... the place appears to be loaded with agent provacateurs. when i addressed these issues, my posts were deleted. i know of several who experienced the same response.

if homeland security hasn't raised their internal level of alert on this situation, then i'd be very surprised.

what i find further disturbing is the fact that i cannot find one shred of information that the anti-defamation league www.adl.org , nor the southern poverty law center www.splcenter.org... have responded to any of this.

expect agent provacateurs across the board. especially regarding threats made. i sure do... in particular, those organizations with an agenda. i can think of a few off the top of my head.

i'm shocked at the frenzy of hatred that's been taking place. totally shocked and disturbed. i'm also a christian.



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