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Arizona Law SB 1070 and HB 2162 Examined. Cite Your Reasons For Dissent.

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posted on May, 21 2010 @ 08:47 AM
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Okay people, here's is the chance to discuss the BILL and draft legislation HB 2162 which will amend SB 1070.

I hear a lot of people saying they 'disagree' with the bills. So rather than throw out endless rhetoric and OPINION, I thought I would go straight to the Arizona Governor's site and post the legislation she has up.

This thread is for the folks that "OPPOSE the Bill". Please discuss EXACTLY which part of the Bill you find out of line, racist, illegal, unconstitutional, etc.etc. Respond with a quotation of the section or sub-section and give your corresponding objections.


SB 1070 and HB 2162 can be found here:

azgovernor.gov...

The unofficial DRAFTED version is found at the top.

Remember when you open that PDF...GREEN is the amended text and BLUE is the original language.


Relating what you THINK will happen because of the BILL is NOT in the scope of this thread. Straw man arguments, speculation, or hypotheticals are NOT appreciated for this thread.

IN OTHER WORDS...if you can't name the section, paste the wording, and give your corresponding opinion based on what is IN THE BILL, don't bother posting. This thread is about the BILL, not opinions.

Time for the rhetoric to be called on. All dissenters to the Bill, the floor is yours.

Let's hear your arguments.



[edit on 21-5-2010 by Prove_It_NOW]




posted on May, 21 2010 @ 09:21 AM
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Feel free to start at anytime folks!


+4 more 
posted on May, 21 2010 @ 09:30 AM
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I *'d and F'd your post based on the premise. You DO realize you're asking opponents to reinforce their arguments with Facts, don't you?







posted on May, 21 2010 @ 09:31 AM
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reply to post by TXRabbit
 



LOL, yes, the horror, the horror!!!



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 09:38 AM
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reply to post by Prove_It_NOW
 


Just wait for sob stories to roll in, you know the one. I was taking my grandma to the ice cream stand and these pigs stopped us because we looked purple. They asked about our papers....I was only going to the ice cream stand my poor, weak grandma.



Just pointing out the ignorance people will believe about the laws, especially those in this administration who have not even read the damn bill.







[edit on 21-5-2010 by prionace glauca]



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 11:01 AM
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No takers yet on the OP????

I thought SOMEONE would surely back their reasons for opposing the laws.

I was wrong? Wow. Well, I'll check back and see later....



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by Prove_It_NOW
 


Great post. Funny how there are no takers.

Anyone.....Anyone...?

Hate it when those pesky facts get in the way.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 11:31 AM
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Perfect analogy in the above video clip.




posted on May, 21 2010 @ 11:37 AM
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S&F to your post.

Still no dissension based on facts I see. Hmmm. I'm not surprised. Too many people are quick to judge based on emotion before getting their facts straight. Oops! There I used the facts word again.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 11:45 AM
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I'm honestly on the fence on this subject. The only real reason I would have any issues against this bill is the reputation of Sheriff Joe and Arizona law enforcement. However the law itself really doesn't bother me. And I'm beginning to lean towards favoring the bill after watching the Feds literally bend over backwards in defiance of the laws already on the book. I was neutral until the Mexican Puppet... I mean President came here and denounced our laws and demanded American citizens lose their rights to a standing ovation from our fearless leaders. I'm still neutral and will wait to see what happens. However, I'm slowly warming up to it.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 12:07 PM
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i think it should be obvious this bill isnt anti freedom in anyway, if it was theyd be blamin it on the terrorists, they even have more legititamate reason to do so too considered the 100s that get through the mexican border everyday that are from terrorst harboring countries. that was another thread on here somewhere.


+2 more 
posted on May, 21 2010 @ 12:08 PM
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As I've said before the opposition has been seriously intellectually dishonest about this law. Of course, my points are often ignored because I'm not being the good little Hispanic they want me to be. Those of you who have seen my participation in other threads know exactly what I'm talking about. Being the inconvenience to these people that I am, exemplified by how I'm either insulted or ignored, you should expect the same kind of treatment from these people as I have received.



[edit on 21-5-2010 by projectvxn]



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 12:18 PM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 


Forget them. They want you to be a "good little Hispanic" before being a thinking logical American. I know many "Hispanics" that feel the way we do about Illegal Immigration. But to them it's about "Raza"...and "Roots". They're "Hyphenated" Americans.

So...back to my original OP. Will anyone please challenge my OP and respond with a dissenting argument of the BILL.....BACKED BY THE FACTS??????

Anytime you wanna chime in...we'll be waiting.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by PatesHatriots
 


The LEGAL citizens in AZ love Joe. It was a shame he decided not to run for guv. He has been smeared by the libs long before this law was passed. This administration in DC is getting quite a rep for spinning lies even by DC standards. It's all about stirring up the sheeple and gathering more votes from these automatons. As far as Obama's puppet Calderon listen in his own words about how Mexico deals with illegals. Blitzer did a great job exposing the Calderon's and the entire left's hypocrisy on the AZ bill.


article.wn.com...


width="480" height="385"> "http://www.youtube.com/v/gOn8RZZ5wuA&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385">

I hope this embeds. My tech skills suck!



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 12:39 PM
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reply to post by GrampsLEn
 


OK. It didn't but the article did. On the right side click on "Hypocrisy Calderon Describes Mexico's..." for this portion of the Blitzer interview.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 12:45 PM
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My problem exists due to the potential abuse that could follow it. And yes, I'm aware that the law is written explicitly to not allow any sort of racial profiling to be at play. But most laws do. And it still happens.

I will say this, what I find ironic about all of this is that due to the outrage of this bill I believe the eyes will be so trained on LE in Arizona that the likelihood of profiling has decreased.

I'm not really sure where I am on the issue with this bill anymore. On one hand, I think abuse is possible and will happen. On the other hand, what else can we do?

I'll wait and see how the bill is used and what happens because of it.

[edit on 21-5-2010 by SpectreDC]



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 01:03 PM
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No body wants to look at the whole picture.

As long as work exists for immigrant workers - they will come - no matter what - no matter what law is signed.

There used to be a LEGAL WORK PROGRAM. Until some kind of LEGAL work program is re-instated - - - Mexicans and other immigrants will come here illegally to fill those jobs.

This law - no matter how it is worded - does not solve the problems.
------------------------------------------

Most people do not realize that SW Arizona is the main supplier of winter fruits and vegetables. Most people think it is just a big desert - but it isn't.

Some farmers here are moving their farms across the border into Mexico. This is the same thing as the manufacturing industry leaving the US.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 01:09 PM
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I find it disappointing that there are several emotion and rant filled threads on ATS regarding the AZ law.

However it seems that none of those who so loudly oppose this attempt at ENFORCEMENT(I choose that term since AZ's law is nearly a carbon copy of Federal standards)will step over to this thread for a few minutes to debate the actual law.

I honestly expect better from ATS.


I have lurked here for years and I there is an increasing amount of banter that has no factual support. It seems as if in this "day" many attempts to discuss hard facts drive the posters away.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 01:10 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


I STILL have not heard a cogent dissent against the Bill as stated in my OP, based on accusations of "racism", "taking of rights", or "racial profiling"....

Please people...this thread is to dissenters to ANSWER and CHALLENGE my op.

I'm still waiting.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 01:14 PM
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I'll give it a run, if for no other purpose than to give you guys something to hack at..

WHERE 25 REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO AND IS 26 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES,

Define what "Reasonable suspicion" is?



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