House votes to expand national DNA arrest database

House votes to expand national DNA arrest database

news.cnet.com

Millions of Americans arrested for but not convicted of crimes will likely have their DNA forcibly extracted and added to a national database, according to a bill approved by the U.S. House of Representatives on Tuesday.

By a 357 to 32 vote, the House approved legislation that will pay state governments to require DNA samples, which could mean drawing blood with a needle, from adults "arrested for" certain serious crimes. Not one Democrat voted against the database measure, which would hand out about $75 million to states that agree to make such testing mandatory.

"We should allow law

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This sickens me. So if you are arrested, even for a crime that you did not commit, it is now OK to take a DNA sample. Of course there is no room for abuse here... My DNA is more precious to me than my SSN#, which I feel is too often expected. I want your opinions on this ATS. I can see a small amount of good, but I see a lot more bad.

news.cnet.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

being a criminal justice major myself, I do not see a problem with this.

Violent offenders tend to get worse until they actually kill somebody. I was interning at a local sheriffs department and there have been people in that jail atleast 18 times... 18 times! and their offenses got progressively worse or just repeated the same offenses. Getting one blood sample may actually solve more crimes that haven't been caught yet.

They arent talking about arresting people for a dui and taking blood samples, they are more than likely talking about asasault and other highly aggressive offenses. AND if you are arrested falsely... its something you can sue the nation for... and you will make a lot of money... so this is a win win for you if you are innocent.

reply to post by Raustin


This is disgusting. I might be able to understand them taking DNA from a convicted person, but never from someone that has simply been arressted for a crime. Unless of course it's to see if their DNA matches evidence from the crime they were arressted for .

What's truely disturbing is the fact that they are willing to bribe states to comply with this

Sadly I live in Illinois, so I'm sure our state will be complying with this

reply to post by rjmelter

They arent talking about arresting people for a dui and taking blood samples, they are more than likely talking about asasault and other highly aggressive offenses.

Like in rape cases, where many times a man is falsely accussed ? In cases like that where they have DNA evidence, fine take the sample. If the sample proves their innocence that sample sholud be destroyed, and entirely wiped out of the computer sytem. Innocent people should not be forced to have their DNA on record.

AND if you are arrested falsely... its something you can sue the nation for... and you will make a lot of money... so this is a win win for you if you are innocent.

Maybe it's a win/win for you, but I doubt it will be considered one for the innocent person. Could you provide some links to stories about people who have been falsely arrested and have made a lot of money off of it ? You can't sue the nation for false arrest, unless you are arrested by the nation. Most people are arrested by their local police department for cases like assualt, etc.

reply to post by rjmelter


I would agree with you if it was convicted a serious felony, but this is just being arrested. They could just go an arrest anyone, take their dna, then decide they had the wrong person and let them go. However, you dna, which should be considered both life and property, has already be taken from you, most likely against your will. This is another bad bill passed by the bozos.

Originally posted by rjmelter
being a criminal justice major myself, I do not see a problem with this.

Violent offenders tend to get worse until they actually kill somebody. I was interning at a local sheriffs department and there have been people in that jail atleast 18 times... 18 times! and their offenses got progressively worse or just repeated the same offenses. Getting one blood sample may actually solve more crimes that haven't been caught yet.

They arent talking about arresting people for a dui and taking blood samples, they are more than likely talking about asasault and other highly aggressive offenses. AND if you are arrested falsely... its something you can sue the nation for... and you will make a lot of money... so this is a win win for you if you are innocent.

Firstly, the article does not specify "violent offenders". As well, how can you say, "they are more than likely talking about assault..."?

I'm pretty sure they're making it clear that it will be everyone who is arrested who gets a needle stuck in them.

Wonderful.

This would be a clear violation of constitutional rights, but they seem to think the Constitution doesn't exist so in that sense they are ready to forcibly take DNA especially in order to insure you get your insurance coverage, etc. You see what they will do maybe take your sample when you get government insurance and just put it in the database or more likely the day you are born, no need to even be suspected of anything, they will have it so they can place it in the database for scanning.

Fascist dictator Bush signed this dandy assault on your freedoms into “law” at the end of his rule: The Newborn Screening Saves Lives Act.

“The DNA taken at birth from every citizen is essentially owned by the government, and every citizen becomes a potential subject of government-sponsored genetic research.” All 50 states are now routinely providing results of genetic screenings to the Department of Homeland Security and this bill will establish the legality of that practice plus include DNA.


This is sick; just sick...

The problem is when they start using planted DNA against innocent citizens... this database just makes it easier for them to select the scapegoat more easily...

reply to post by chise61

Maybe it's a win/win for you, but I doubt it will be considered one for the innocent person. Could you provide some links to stories about people who have been falsely arrested and have made a lot of money off of it ? You can't sue the nation for false arrest, unless you are arrested by the nation. Most people are arrested by their local police department for cases like assualt, etc.

How the court system works is if you get tried guilty you have plenty of appeals processes you go through. After it makes it through the state courts it goes on... to the federal court. Once you get to that point the court will try to decide if foul play was involved and it will try to see if all the investigations and everything was conducted legally, if it wasnt then the court case will be reversed. Normally in the appeals court is when you will find the foul play unless the defense or prosecution does a really good job in the lower courts... (primarily the defense).

AND ALSO normally courts take a long time and they cost a lot of time and money to pay lawyers etc etc... the courts will in essense "reimburse" the person for "wasting" their time and causing harm. One could also sue for psychological damages after being falsely accused of a crime that they did not commit. There are many things a person can sue for nowadays.

If a person is innocent they have nothing to hide. That is why i dont see a problem in holding the DNA sample. If they are proven innocent should they delete the sample from the database?? NOPE. Why? Because people that get "assaulted" by the courts hold grudges and may commit a crime afterwards to get back at "the man" (the government).

What it boils down to is that people are afraid that a holocaust will be created after people figure out the perfect genes. Oh, this person is useless, kill them. Thats now how it works. The DNA strand is largely unknown to the common man, they think it may harbor secrets of their soul, or reveal weaknesses that may get them OFFED... that is the only reason. What harm does it do to have an IDLE set of DNA in a database somewhere to catch murders etc? Well there is a possibility of corruption for someone in the governemtn to "plant" evidence. However, it is not too likely that this would happen. The screening process for Law Enforcement is much better. The only problem is POLITICIANS. They have more power and more money to coerce bad decisions... once we start screening our politicans affectively there will be no need to concern yourself with DNA. But I understand the permature fears that are currently being felt.

There is nothing wrong with this idea... but there is a reason to be concerned about possible corruption.


edit to add:

There is no reason to play word games. You should know that if someone is found innocent thet local government will be forced to pay you (and they always do) for false imprisonment and for causing psychological harm. Not sure why this has to be a power trip rather than a knowledge seeking mission.

[edit on 21-5-2010 by rjmelter]

Originally posted by TarzanBeta

Firstly, the article does not specify "violent offenders". As well, how can you say, "they are more than likely talking about assault..."?

I'm pretty sure they're making it clear that it will be everyone who is arrested who gets a needle stuck in them.

Wonderful.

Actually, In atleast 23 states all felons are required to give a DNA samples. FELONIES are all generally aggressive which is conducted by "violent offenders" and also it is these certain types of people who commit the more serious offenses and will continue to commit crimes the rest of their lives. Criminals are nothing more than people who failed to thrive because they either werent raised properly, they gave up prematurely, a combination of both, psychological disorders, or birth disorders/biological issues...

The Government knows these things and is trying to find ways that make it quicker to track down and keep these offenders off the streets. Can this system be abused? Yes. But I have faith that as our Justice system evolves, abuse will decrease as more laws become inacted to protect the public.

Originally posted by exlibertateveritas
reply to post by rjmelter

 

I would agree with you if it was convicted a serious felony, but this is just being arrested. They could just go an arrest anyone, take their dna, then decide they had the wrong person and let them go. However, you dna, which should be considered both life and property, has already be taken from you, most likely against your will. This is another bad bill passed by the bozos.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying.

BUT they are talking about bringing people in accused of SERIOUS crimes... while that term is used loosely, they are more than likely talking about felonies (as felonies are serious crimes and misdemeanors are not)

By a 357 to 32 vote, the House approved legislation that will pay state governments to require DNA samples, which could mean drawing blood with a needle, from adults "arrested for" certain serious crimes. Not one Democrat voted against the database measure, which would hand out about $75 million to states that agree to make such testing mandatory.

What they are trying to do is take DNA samples from the people they are brining in and trying to match it to other crimes... most criminals ARE REPEAT OFFENDERS. I can almost promise you that the very reason for this idea is to catch repeat offenders with pending cases against them... NOT TO GET DNA FROM THE AVERAGE AMERICAN CITIZEN.

Not only that but if they arrest people WRONGLY or FALSELY and it cannot be justified the officer will be fired, so you wont have cops doing that anyways. Its just irrational fears that is sinking too deep in peoples heads. Everything will be ok... and life goes on.

Simply being arrested for a crime does not make you guilty. I have no problem with felons being required to submit DNA samples, I think that's a wonderful idea actually. What I take issue with is that someone being arrested for a serious offense (remember that's not convicted) will have to submit a DNA sample.

Let's say that my neighbor gets shot. The police come and see me standing over the body, trying to offer assistance. I would probably be arrested as I am generally carrying a pistol, even though I would also probably be released in a matter of hours. In this little scenario I would then be forced to submit a DNA sample. I don't want to do that, and find it very sad that an above poster said if you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't be scared. The fact that above poster is pursuing a CJ degree is also rather worrisome.

Originally posted by Raustin

Let's say that my neighbor gets shot. The police come and see me standing over the body, trying to offer assistance. I would probably be arrested as I am generally carrying a pistol, even though I would also probably be released in a matter of hours. In this little scenario I would then be forced to submit a DNA sample. I don't want to do that, and find it very sad that an above poster said if you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't be scared. The fact that above poster is pursuing a CJ degree is also rather worrisome.

I am pursuing a CJ degree. My DNA is already in the federal database, I have a DD214 after being Uncharacteristically Discharged (still under honorable)... and the only thing my DNA does is serve as a reference should someone crossexamine my data with some crime. CONSIDERING that I dont commit crimes... im not worried about it. BUT seeing as there are people that could abuse such information does concern me.

SO LET ME ASK YOU THIS...

What particularly bothers you??

Is someone going to plant evidence of YOURS?

Are you so SPECIAL that out of the millions of records that they already have YOU are going to get picked above all others to be the murder they implicate?

Did GOD himself make your DNA so special that it holds treasures that the rest of the world should not partake in?

For what reason are you afraid to let the government have a sample of your geneitc make up? Dont blame it on your religion... because if it was about religion you would know that the body is only a vessel for the soul and its genetic makeup is not what makes you you. So please enlighten me as to why they should not be aloud to keep samples... please.

[edit on 21-5-2010 by rjmelter]

reply to post by rjmelter


What bothers me is that I doubt there will be many controls put in place. As technology advances I think it probable insurance companies will want to write policies based on DNA. There is also the issue of having my DNA wind up at some crime scene through chance, and my not having an alibi. People are getting more and more accepting of DNA as the be all end all tool in law enforcement. There is also the issue of someone else having similar enough DNA that I would be detained until further tests were done if using the standard system.

And yes I am slightly paranoid. I don't think of myself as being particularly special but if some a hole wants to frame someone for a crime planting DNA would be an easy way to do it. I'd rather not take the chance.

reply to post by Raustin


fair enough

2nd line

reply to post by rjmelter


For the record I do appreciate the thought provoking questions you put forward. It's easy to jump on the anti govt. bandwagon without any real reason and I think it's good for us to stop and think.

reply to post by Raustin


Thats is all that I really was going for, although I was really genuinely curious...

Some people have irrational fears about this DNA sampling and much more other topics on ATS, but some also have legitimate concerns (such as yours).

reply to post by bubbabuddha


I'm curious..

Having read your post, I went and read the US Constitution..

I can't see in there the part where they mention that taking DNA samples from arrested people is not allowed..

In case I missed it, could you elaborate?