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An open letter to the democrats in the US Congress

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posted on May, 21 2010 @ 01:04 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyR
 


star for this post. Very good arguement




posted on May, 21 2010 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by Phedreus
 


Your papers please! Frankly, I don't like it and it was the wrong way to deal with this. two wrongs don't make a right and if they can do this, they can do more as time goes by and it may not be to illegals or those of Mexican blood.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by likeabull
He was right!! Apparently, it is all right for our president, former and present to go to other country's and make negative statements about hosting country. But, it's not all right for them to make negative statements about the United States when they come here? What BS. Get over it. Arizona's law should be repealed!!! If they refuse to repeal this law, then give Arizona back to Mexico. That would show those racist $%#*%!! We don't need Arizona, nothing more than a bunch of gambling degenerates. Oh, and one more thing, the people that want to repeal the Civil Rights Act should just dust off those KKK white sheets and put them on. Stop being such cowards and stand up for what you believe in and please don't attempt to make logical arguments about repealing the Civil Rights Act. Desperate people do desperate things, just remember it was Bush that got us here not Obama!! And if you don't have a job feel free to stand next to all the Latinos waiting for a day job offer. Da..


Wow! Maybe ATS needs to establish a minimum IQ standard for membership.

OK there we have it. If you disagree with TPTB and the NWO and the libs then you are just a mean ol' racist mf'er donned in white sheets. If you demand representation from your pol leaders it is you who are the traitor. If you think that it's wrong to cheer a foreign leader when he trashes us then you are mentally unsound. And, of course, everything that has happened or will happen is someone else's doing--like Bush. It can never be the messiah's or his apostles' fault.

"Beep...beep...I will obey your every command"

Many of us will, dare I say, continue to deny ignorance.

By the way, genius, Nevada is the "gambling" state.

Dollars to donuts you, like the president, his AG, Janet Napolitano and all of those cheering pols never read the bill before passing judgment.

Good job Phedreus. Star and flag for you.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 01:43 PM
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Great post OP. S&F for you.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 02:02 PM
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I don't care what side of the Arizona law you are on or if your Hispanic, African-American, Chinese, Korean, or any other nationality. The United States has a problem with illegal immigration into our country. This cannot be disputed. There are millions of illegal immigrants in our country. There are also millions of LEGAL immigrants in this country that came here legally and take pride in being an AMERICAN. If we had better border security, a wall or a fence across the whole border, or if MEXICO wasn't such a horrible place to make these people want to leave and come here then we wouldn't have so many illegal immigrants in our country. The United States must be better than Mexico if so many do whatever they can to get here. Why are they leaving Mexico to come here?

Part of the problem is Mexico! This is why the applause by our congress when Calderon says the AZ law is racist is deplorable. His country treats illegals to 10 years in prison and we give illegals health care, tax free employment(which needs to be stopped and companies fined for hiring them in the first place), schools to attend, etc. So who is in the wrong here? Seems to me Mexico doesn't have a leg to stand on. So we change the way we secure our borders and if we do this then we curtail the amount of illegals that enter our country. Basically until we make it easy for immigrants to come here legally then we need to make it hard as hell to get here illegally. I simply don't understand why anyone would be against PROVING they are LEGAL especially if they are from another country. If you came here legally you should be proud to show your papers that you worked for to be here. If you are hispanic and you are a natural citizen of the U.S. then you might be asked for papers IF, IF, IF you are stopped for speeding, running from the police, or sneaking around someones house in the dark. The point is sitting in an ice cream shop with your kid is not suspicious but robbing an ice cream store is.

I admit our immigration policy needs a lot of work but you have to start somewhere and perhaps this law in Arizona will lead to profiling and racism. The law hasn't even taken effect yet so none of this has happened yet. I have read the law and the Police can only stop you if you are already involved in suspicious or illegal activity. They CANNOT just walk up to someone and say "papers please". Will there be a bad cop here and there, YES but they will dealt with with suspensions and/or terminations.

Now I only have one question that nobody seems to have an answer for at this moment. HOW DO WE FIND OUT IF SOMEONE IS HERE ILLEGALLY IF WE CAN'T ASK THEM TO PROVE THEY ARE LEGALLY? HOW DO WE DO THAT? IF YOU THINK THIS IMMIGRATION LAW IS ILLEGAL, UNCONSTITUTIONAL, AND/OR RACIST THEN PLEASE FIND AN ANSWER TO THE QUESTION. HOW DO WE FIND OUT IF SOMEONE IS HERE ILLEGALLY IF WE CAN'T ASK THEM TO PROVE IT?



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by Phedreus
 


You have my support and according to ALL of the Polls, no matter the source, the support of the vast majority of Americans.

Who would have ever dreamed we would one day have to watch our government give more weight to the wants of Illegals than American Citizens.

I'm now boycotting travel to Mexico and all Mexico produced products. Last night I had the produce guy at a grocery store checking boxes for me so I did not buy any produce from Mexico. I emailed everyone on my list to ask them to not travel to Mexico or spend money in Mexico. My business partner, who goes to Mexico often on weekends has agreed to join me.

If the President of Mexico wants to be so rude and condescending as to think he has any say here whatsoever, screw him and his country. Mexico is a damn armpit. Why, the corrupt government. Mexico is one giant organized crime mob who's own citizens won't lift a finger to clean up. What do they do? They run here like cowards instead of picking up the crap in their own yards. Mexico has plenty of natural resources and there is simply no reason Mexico is not our equal economically other than its run by criminals. It's that simple.

Those of you who are unemployed need to let the White House know, you want those jobs manned by Illegals and you want them now. Call their bluff and expose the lie. You should line up in front of companies that have Illegals working and demand their jobs.

Legal Immigrants, you are one of us, join us. You came here the right way and we love having you here and value you as we are all from Immigrants ourselves. Stand up and say, I am an American. I followed the law and came here to be an American. Encourage your relatives in Mexico and other countries to follow the same legal path you did. We want them here. Let them know that they are welcome here, but only if they follow the law. Kill the lies that they are not wanted here by flooding them with truth. Don't let yourselves be drug into this argument by liars.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 02:24 PM
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As much as I agree with the law, it will never be enforced. If we really wanted to do something about the illegal problem, WE SHOULD FINE ALL BUSINESSES WHO EMPLOY ILLEGALS AND GIVE REAL JAIL TIME TO THE PERSONS RESPONSIBLE. I grew up in the heartland that is right now overrun due to the abundance of agriculture jobs and especially meat packing. It seemed that every year their were raids and companies were fined or INS was paid off and the cycle began again. If we threatened these businessmen with real jail time in addition to a fine that puts them on the verge of bankruptcy, maybe we wouldn't have so many people so eager to cross that border for a job. This will never happen though because those same businessmen are the ones who fund the campaigns of those who write the laws.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by Phedreus
An Open letter to the Democrats in the United States Congress

I write this letter to you with the purpose of being certain that you be called to account for your disgraceful actions on the floor of the United States Congress. As Congressmen, your standing ovation on the floor of the United States Congress, in response to President Calderon’s chastisement of the State of Arizona was despicable, objectionable, and lacking in any sense of propriety or honor. You have shamed your people, your states, and your country with your prepubescent show of America bashing. However much you might dislike, or disagree with the Arizona law, however you might feel about the problems of immigration, and racism, and profiling in this country, regardless of your contempt for the GOP and their constituents , this is a family matter, and as such you should have been the first in this nation to stand and let President Calderon know that he had nothing to say on the matter, that any state in the Union on its worst day was better that the nation of Mexico on its best, and to kindly butt out.

You failed to act with honor, or with the good of the country and her citizens as your concern. If President Calderon had been speaking that way about the Mets in front of the New York City government he would have been tossed out on his butt and told to take his ass back to where ever he came from till he learned some manners. How much more so should a representative of this great nation have made the same gesture of patriotism and common umbrage for the remarks he made to the Congress. You sought only to use the occasion to demean her and her ideals, and show your disdain for her people, her laws and her states. You did not do this in front of other Americans on the campaign trail or at a town meeting; no you stood up and did this in front of the entire world, while a foreign leader, speaking to the American government in the halls of our nation’s capital, trashed a state of the Union. You have failed to act as an honorable, defender of America and her people, you failed to act as any patriotic, simple American citizens would have acted and I for one am deeply ashamed of my government and you.

In the past I have tried hard to couch my differences with this administration and this
Democrat congress, in reasoned, thoughtful, debate, assuming that not only should I as a citizen regardless of my differences with the current administration ,at least show respect for the office of President and Congressman, but that I was debating someone to whom the honors and prestige of those offices meant something. NO LONGER. I for one will no longer afford you the courtesies, honorifics, or prestige that should be one’s for holding such an office. You have proven that you think little of them and I for one will no longer grant them to you.


Phedreus


Quit the nationalist garbage, it's nauseating and contrived.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by EspyderMan




This land is not my land, or your land, or the natives land. All this land on the world belongs to the people. People should have the right to leave a place that isn't providing for them or doesn't allow to provide for themselves and go someplace better. Every human being deserves this right from birth.

Who are we to dictate to any human where they can live, eat, sleep, and think? Who are we to dictate a human seeking asylum, freedom, shelter, food, peace, etc., that they should not be afforded those freedoms?

Is this the world we want to live in? Where we segregate races to their own lands, we have no tolerance of immigration, that we think its ok to own something we did not create and merely inhereted?

Its sad, this world, this people. Why can't men and women of this world stand for something better? Why does anyone in any country feel a sense of entitlement? No one in this generation or even the last built these countries, they merely complained about their own laws and taxes, berated their own officials, and maintained a status quo. I am sure those who established and built countries of freedom did it so every man, woman and child can be afforded basic human dignity, they did not consider immigration and its ill effects on the psyche, why? Because they wanted true freedom in every sense of the word. That was the entitlement they felt back then which motivated their actions, now this generation and many before us decide its time to be dictators and determine who "deserves" to immigrate and who doesn't and it makes me sick to see it.

OP, while i respect your opinion, i disagree with it on that basis. I will not refuse a hungry person entry into my country, i will feed him, teach him how to feed himself, teach him how to work and pay his taxes, so they can become a contributor. This is a positive approach that can fatten the pockets of the governments from recieving more taxes, instead, its gustapo time, no entitlement for anyone but those already here. Yet, no god, no being, nothing in this universe gave any one human, or even several entitlement over lands, but for some reason you believe your worthy of it.

I say to you, what makes you worthy (personally or as a government entity) of that entitlement? Winning Wars? Killing off Native Tribes? The fact you can create laws? Id love to know what entitles Americans, Canadians, or any nationality of any country that they own the land they reside in and can/should control who gets to be on it.


Guess what, this isnt your little fringe left give peace a chance, one world bull#, fairy tale. This land belongs to the United States of America, not mexico. This country has laws, one of them restricting groups of scum pouring in from mexico. Untill these people migrate in a lawful way, they will be deported back to their third world hellhole. Its funny liberals love to cite that the majority makes laws the right thing to do. Unless, of course it doesnt fit into this social justice crap. The majority of Americans (even Hispanic Americans) support Az and want these leeches out of this country.
If the Obama regime gets rid of this law, its our charge to step in and protect the border ourselves. If these one world hippies want illegals deportation to be humane they damn well better let the law do its job. I promise you if the citizens do it political correctness will be out the window.
And yes we do tolerate immigration, but these people are not immigrants they are criminals. Come in the right way, under our law and we will embrace you. Try to come in any other way, you do so at your own risk.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by NoHierarchy
 


If you hate America so much get or stay the hell out. Anytime mexica wants to attempt to take the southern states back, please come try. Mabye then we can get rid of more excess population.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by prionace glauca

Originally posted by maybereal11


Democrats do not want "Big Government".

They want a government that does what it should.



That made me spit out my food,


What do you call the ever reaching arm of the Government in General Motors, which allowed Unions to take over that company?

What about the governments reach in Housing Loans with Freddie and Fannie, which led to the housing bubble guaranteeing unqualified people with loans...now Freddie & Fannie own majority of the Home Loans?

What about the HCR bill? Wait let me guess, you don't even know whats in it as you believe the dems are not wanting to take over the Health and Insurance industry so they can choose if one gets to live or die..


In that same HCR bill..the Feds now control all Student Loan Market, which used to employ 2500 people in my neck of the woods...all unemployed now.

So the Dems want a small government? Did you know that under Obama, Federal and Government jobs have increased in Pay and Hiring over any other administration to date?.......with more bureaucracies opening up as citizens need to be controlled, more people will be hired to force the will of the government.

Wake up and stop being a puppet for government takeover....unless you yourself are benefiting from this, then people like the OP and me will always be in your way.

[edit on 21-5-2010 by prionace glauca]


Since when is general motors representative of THE PEOPLE?? If the government reaches its arm into other powerful/dangerous institutions in order to prevent damage to the populace, whether it's economic, health, environmental, civil liberties, then I wholeheartedly support the government in that quest. Keep in mind, I'm an Anarchist, but I will NOT defend or protect the "rights" of gigantic/powerful corporations from the government. Let the two dogs fight each other, we should defend NEITHER government NOR big business. The rights of the People are fundamentally SEPARATE from the rights of corporations, Wall Street, and government agencies. Such corporations are CURRENTLY much more dangerous to us and our rights than the government is, though the government is absolutely NOT innocent and remains complicit when it gives them what they want. Now, when these corporate entities are finally being reigned in (barely) you have the nerve to call it tyranny? Seriously, your reality is ALL MIXED UP.

As for Fannie/Freddie... do your homework, they were NOT single-handedly responsible for the housing bubble. The majority of the responsibility still lies on the backs of big banks and their greedy games. Fannie/Freddie surely were a significant part of the collapse and deserve correction/justice against them, but don't for one second think that it was anything but DE-REGULATION of the banks that allowed the majority of the mess we're in. When government regulates big banks/business, it's quite a bit better than when government de-regulates them and THEY start to control our GOVERNMENT. It's about picking the lesser evil so long as the system remains intact.

As for the HCR bill, once again DO YOUR HOMEWORK. The private insurance companies ALREADY decide who lives/dies and this is based on profit. If the government offers a universal health care system, then this ELIMINATES the profit motive and allows our government to aggressively negotiate the best deals for all of us. If you're against this then surely you're a fool and a useful idiot for the Capitalist plutocrats. In most of the other countries with universal health-care, the populace is getting a MUCH BETTER deal than we are, period. Any BS about waiting lines can also be seen right here in America too. It's a no-brainer.

As for student loan reforms... WHO CAN ARGUE WITH THAT?? It provides much needed reforms/funding to needy/poor children/students and takes the BANKS out of the equation. You're on this whole "GOVERNMENT'S CONTROLLING EVERYTHING!!!OMG!!!" trip when you bafflingly REFUSE to realize that even MORE tyrannical entities currently control it and screw us over!!!

Why don't you cite specifics in each of these bills that ACTUALLY demonstrates tyranny or unacceptable government control. Like I said, I'm an Anarchist so I'm against government control as well, but my HUGE bone with you right wingers is that you seem to support the greater tyranny of Capitalism/multinational corporations over the lesser tyranny of our government. I want them BOTH castrated, but the economic pillars of tyranny MUST be toppled FIRST.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 02:48 PM
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What a great letter!

Thanks for this letter, OP.

I am a LEGAL immigrant to Canada from England (now a Canadian citizen) and wholeheartedly support Arizona's new law. Also, I don't call myself an English-Canadian. I AM CANADIAN. Just like ANY immigrant to the US isn't a Mexican-American, English-American, Haitian-American, Italian-American, or anything else. You are AMERICANS - you chose to settle in America, call yourself what you are.

I even object to the terms "French Canadian" and "Quebecois". We are all CANADIANS, regardless of which province we're from.

Regardless of whatever law is being discussed, it is highly inappropriate for a World leader addressing Congress to be critical of the way the United States applies their laws. I stated in another thread that ANY President other than Obama (maybe with the exception of Jimmy Carter) wouldn't have taken this without a very strong response.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 03:06 PM
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I know this is from Fox, but...

"Top Department of Homeland Security official reportedly says agency will not necessarily process illegal immigrants referred to them by Arizona authorities."

FoxNews



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by Skeptron
reply to post by NoHierarchy
 


If you hate America so much get or stay the hell out. Anytime mexica wants to attempt to take the southern states back, please come try. Mabye then we can get rid of more excess population.


Every time somebody says something like that to me I seriously want to knock their teeth out.

This is MY HOME, I was born here, I can criticize this country AS MUCH AS I PLEASE, it's my right and my duty as a human being on this planet NOT TO LET INJUSTICE STAND. I am a proud Anarchist and I could give a crap about ANY COUNTRY or their flag. Just because I was randomly born in this country or ANY OTHER country does NOT mean that I have to surrender who/what I am to it. I believe in freedom and independence (which is what America was SUPPOSED to be about RIGHT??) and I get to choose what I support and what I reject no matter WHAT COLORS or outfits it wears. I just as easily criticize EVERY OTHER COUNTRY as I see fit, nobody is safe and that's what's called TRUTH and OBJECTIVITY. If you can't be objective about your own country then maybe it's time YOU LEFT before you allow it to become a fascist state while you wave the flag with a big stupid grin on your face.

Blind nationalism/jingoism is for idiots and peasants who pledge allegiance to a system they don't fully understand. Everybody I've ever met with half a brain on EITHER SIDE of the political spectrum realizes this. Governments, nation-states, and land-masses comprised of MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS OF PEOPLE cannot be united, it's impossible, and if it's possible then it's UNDESIRABLE. In history whenever the majority of a country was united in agreeing and supporting EVERYTHING a government/culture did, you were much more likely to see tyranny and disgusting herd behavior. Nations are INHERENTLY DANGEROUS, always have been since the dawn of civilization. What we have now is people just say, "Whellp, I was born here so I might as well support it and wave all the flags and kick everyone's ass who isn't like me!" As if it was a game of football! But after actually questioning everything and pondering life, the world, and the universe scientifically/philosophically, I simply CANNOT bring myself to be a proud/unquestioning patriot of ANY group or country.

Perhaps I will leave America someday if I like it somewhere better. But for now, I'm not f*cking rich enough to go jet-setting around to pick the perfect place to colonize, so for now I want to create the world I WANT here where I LIVE. I'm not sure what kind of lifestyle you want, but if you don't like my vision then you can shove yours, I could care less. The world's gonna change radically no matter what, and you're holding onto ghosts of mis-placed patriotism. Patriotism is as meaningless now as religion is- everybody's got their own brand and every single one stinks of ignorance and pride. Each brand ends up betraying its core principles in order to win dogmatic pissing contests. I WONT PLAY BALL AND I WONT TAKE A BITE OF IT.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by Stewie
There is some hypocrisy here I would like to address.
It seems progressives/democrats are screaming over this AZ. bill. Why?
1. It gives the government too much power to arbitrarily target a person because of their race?
2. People should be able to come and go as they wish? Across borders?

Okay, I agree.
Really.

However, WHO exactly asked for BIG GOVERNMENT? Not the true conservatives or libertarians. It was the liberals/social democrats that made all of these promises of social justice (if you just give us the power to do so), no matter which party they clothed themselves in. Providing all of these benefits at the cost of other more productive people is at the root of all of this.
If they were coming here just for the opportunity to work, no problem.

So, let's end all welfare and social security. Eliminate all of these redundant government oversight agencies that restrict the freedom of individuals to pursue their aspirations.

The hypocrisy is evident. YOU guys asked for all of this government intervention, but YOU want to say WHO gets dicked with, and WHO "we" leave alone.

www.youtube.com...


Ahh the myth of big government AGAIN comes to play here. If big government means more rules and regulations, then how come government is NOT ENFORCING the existant legislation? I am talking about the federal government, not states.

Why does arizona have to create illegal immigration rules for itself, inorder to deal with this out-of-control problem, when the federal government could have handled it much easier?

Some things just don't make sense unless of course the PTB intentionally create false dichotomies to spark civil unrest. I am quite certain of this!



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 03:12 PM
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reply to post by NoHierarchy
 

You misunderstand "capitalism" and what it means.
We have CRONY capitalism and corporatism and absolute corruption.
Capitalism is not the enemy, in fact, it is the reason you are posting here today.
You may be an individualist as opposed to a collectivist, but probably not an anarchist because you are operating under the authority of others simply by posting here.
Anarchists are out torching "the man", not allowing...moderation.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 

There is no "myth" about big government, it exists. Just because they are ineffective does not mean they are not a substantial entity.
At the top, the federal government enforces what laws they choose to against whomever they choose to, and are thus a lawless "mob."
I challenge you to watch the video I posted. It is actually very good.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 03:23 PM
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Originally posted by Stewie
reply to post by NoHierarchy
 

You misunderstand "capitalism" and what it means.
We have CRONY capitalism and corporatism and absolute corruption.
Capitalism is not the enemy, in fact, it is the reason you are posting here today.
You may be an individualist as opposed to a collectivist, but probably not an anarchist because you are operating under the authority of others simply by posting here.
Anarchists are out torching "the man", not allowing...moderation.


Corporatism is a branch of capitalism and there is no sense in denying that.

Why is capitalism not the enemy and what does it have to do with freedom of speech?



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 03:25 PM
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Here is the reason why I support Arizona

It's easy to dismiss individual programs that benefit non-citizens until they're put together and this picture emerges. Someone did a lot of research to put together all of this data.
Often these programs are buried within other programs making them difficult to find.

A Real Eye Opener

WHY is the USA BANKRUPT?




Informative, and mind boggling!





You think the war in Iraq is costing us too much? Read this:

Boy, was I confused. I have been hammered with the propaganda that it is the Iraq war and the war on terror that is bankrupting us.


I now find that to be RIDICULOUS.



I hope the following 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them. I also have included the URL's for verification of all the following facts...


1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.

Verify at: www.fairus.org...



2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.

Verify at: www.cisorg...



3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.

Verify at: www.cisorg...



4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!

Verify at: transcripts.cnn.com...



5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.

Verify at transcripts.cnn.com...




6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.

Verify at: transcripts.cnn.com...



7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.

Verify at: transcripts.CNN.com...



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 03:29 PM
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Originally posted by GrampsLEn
Wow! Maybe ATS needs to establish a minimum IQ standard for membership.


Something tells me you wouldn't much like the crowd here if that was the case.




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