The 2010 Census, How I Have Responded to 5 Enumerators

First of all, Id like to say I am a long time lurker, first time poster.

Anyway, I am a crew leader for the census bureau. I train and supervise enumerators. I will say this much, if you refuse, you will be contacted over and over again. Mostly because our local census offices simply will NOT take refusals from us. It leaves us with out hands tied behind our back, field operations have to keep sending enumerators to houses that refuse.

I understand that a lot of people distrust the government in this day and age. I think that a lot of them are also directing that distrust to enumerators because in their mind they represent a bureaucrat who they can now vent on. That is unfortunate because the census this year has very basic, simple questions. We are just trying to count people, I mean, I am a long time lurker for a reason, and I have yet to see any conspiracy that could involve the census. We are using PAPER PAYROLLS FOR CHRIST SAKE.

Here is a tip for anyone who sincerely distrusts the Bureau. Look on the confidentiality agreement. The information is keep secret for 72 years (even if the information is ridiculously obvious).

reply to post by Turnerad


Since you are a supe.

What EXACTLY has to be answered.

I have seen a vid from a lawyer that has asked and asked what exactly has to be answered.

As far as I know, only one thing has to be answered and that is the number of people living in a "residence".

Also, is a signature REALLY necessary?

What is the purpose of the signature?

reply to post by Aquarius1

You ask what difference does it make, if you asked Proto, and by the way I am not speaking for him, why this thread is important he would probably say it's important because this is only a small part of the grand scheme of things, a piece of the puzzle on the way to truth, in this case it happens to be the Census, make so mistake everything is by design, by learning what really is going on it affords us to wake up and question more as so well illustrated by many posters in this thread, maybe the truth won't set us free today but hopefully we are on the way, so yes this thread does and will make a difference to many here.

We should always be in pursuit of the truth, as it is the only thing that in fact sets us free and allows us to make the best decisions.

Espionage agents who work in dangerous environments do so looking to seek out the truth.

Rule number one for Espionage agents (spies) is "When in doubt, there is no doubt", in other words if a picture being presented leaves doubt and is not 100% certain, that is for a reason, that ultimately is not going to bode well if you don't quickly discover and ascertain the truth.

The reality is our lives, and quality of life, and those of our children, depend on our ability to seek out the truth and make good decisions.

If you have doubts, you should pursue them until you are in fact satisfied you have arrived at the truth.

Evidentiary standards often vary for people, and they have different threshholds for what constitutes proof and the truth.

Yet the reality is many people who have posted in favor of the census have presented this as their truth:

Just fill the darn thing out, what harm could it really do!

They don't even realize that their absolute statement is being presented as a question, as they are asking what harm could it do.

In reality what they are saying, is they don't actually know what if any harm it could do, but they simply don't consider the issue important enough to care or investigate and don't understand why others are doing so.

Yet amazingly enough they are often in fact upset, angry or displeased that others are questioning to a greater extent what they are in fact questioning themselves and don't even tacitly recognize they are questioning it, by including a question into their absolute statement.

Which in reality is a display that they haven't even arrived at the truth of their own actions yet, so how in fact could they arrive at the truth of anyone elses actions?

We need to be responsible for our decisions because they do have a real effect, and we likely would be much better served not making decisions when there is real doubt evident, until that doubt is removed to the extent that we can make decisions comfortably knowing we have reviewed and been privy to all the facts.

Thanks for posting my friend, you are quite right in why Proto thinks this an important issue.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Here is the reasoning behind people getting upset with those that question.

A little story about psychology.

5 Monkeys and a Cage

As a Psychologist I have studied human behavior. While I am not a veterinarian, I can make several applications and lessons learned from the following story about monkeys, especially as it applies to life and business. Can you?

Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, you'll see a banana hanging on a string with a set of stairs placed under it. Before long, a monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As soon as he touches the stairs, all of the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water.

After a while, another monkey makes an attempt to obtain the banana. As soon as his foot touches the stairs, all of the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. It's not long before all of the other monkeys try to prevent any monkey from climbing the stairs.

Now, put away the cold water, remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of the other monkeys attack him as he makes his way toward the stairs. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.

Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm! Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one, then a fourth, then the fifth. Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked.

Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs or why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey.

After replacing all the original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs to try for the banana.

reply to post by Turnerad


I appreciate you posting, and appreciate that you are just doing a job and fulfilling a function.

The Census itself is rooted in a conspiracy of excatly how and why and by whom and for what purpose the nation was founded.

People who have not read all 600 pages of the Treaty of Paris which is the legal instrument that founded the United States, really are almost completely in the dark in regards to the true nature of our founding.

Most people prefer the text book version which is all about selling the posterity of the founding fathers, and notions of freedom to offset the 600,000 laws on the books that regulate every aspect of our existence.

People like to accept that text book version as the truth, but the truth is when the principle European and Colonial Players sat down to hash it all out in a legally binding contract and treaty, it reads nothing like the fiction in our text books.

So while a lot of people do absolutely passionately believe they know the truth based on text books, they really don't until they read the actual legal document that truly founded and created the United States as an internationally recognized lawful entity.

Read the Treaty of Paris and the conspiracy behind the Census, and the 1st and 2nd United States bank and the subsequent Federal Reserve and the IRS becomes much more apparent and easy to understand.

Here is some food for thought.

We have the CIA, FBI, NSA, and Secret Service, all of whom gather intelligence to share with our leaders so that our leaders can know the truth.

Yet ultimately we are not often if ever at all made privy to their findings for 'national security concerns'.

In other words, we the people are not deemed worthy of knowing the truth, or handling it safely as far as the government is concerned.

Yet the truth is we spend billions of dollars in this process and employ hundreds of thousands of people to seek out truths that are never shared with us.

Based on that there is obviously a lot of things out there that require extroidinary efforts to find out and those truths are considered so valuable and important they are only shared amongst a priveleged few.

Yet ultimately these hidden and hard to come by truths affect us all, or the Government wouldn't spend so much time and money seeking out the truth, and then withholding it from us.

Be honest with your selves, how much 'truth' do you really know.

reply to post by endisnighe


What an excellent study on behavior, and we have had at least three of those monkeys out on this thread.

Hear no evil

See no evil

and Speak no evil

have all come out to play.

Thanks for posting that.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
The trademark appears directly attached to the United States, in reality Bank ® of America, Citi ® Corp, Proctor ® & Gamble typically appear Bank of America®, Proctor & Gamble® and Citi-Corp®.

A trademark is always a proper adjective that describes a specific person, place or thing. Use a FileMaker trademark as a proper adjective (not a noun or verb) the first time it is used in text. Never use a mark as a verb:

Correct: FileMaker® Pro software gives you powerful database features.
Incorrect: FileMaker® Pro gives you powerful database features.

Source

In the case of the Census Logo, "United States" is the adjective that describes the Census. Therefore, United States (R) Census 2010 is correct.

Further for LOGOS instead of text:

Placement of Registered Trademark Symbol

In logos the registration symbol(®) is typically placed in upper-right hand corner.

Either way, the (R) in the logo is in the correct place and indicates NOTHING about the United States being trademarked.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Well I guess all those big businesses have it wrong!

The United States is still though incorporated and a corporation, and that's a matter of public record, so in reality the ultimate point you are trying to make through a splitting hairs deflective discussion can't actually be proven.

That the United States is a corporation and is a corporation is a matter of public and congressional record, which has been proven, and proven from multiple sources in this thread...

So what is the point you are trying to actually make?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


By the way this is your actual source for your information regarding trademarks

has been answered by Raghu R. Raju, a trademark attorney at Raju Law Firm, LLC

A law firm so succesful it uses yahoo for it's email correspondences [email protected] , I guess business must be pretty slow for them huh?

Maybe you could give Perry Mason a call, Raghu R Raju?

I'm sorry I havnt read through the thread, so if this has been posted I apologize. For those of you who do not believe the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is a corporation, please see USC Title 28 3002 (15) (A) (B) (C).

If you believe you have any rights per the constitution please read the preamble. You have no rights under the constitution. Your unallienable rights, as a soverign citizen, are given to you by our creator(s). The constitution is an outline of the rights we the people, as soviergn citizens, have granted our gov't for the purposes outlined within. THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is the corporate constitution. The contitution for the united States of America, is the true organic consitution.

Will add more when I'm off my cell, until then do not consent.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
So what is the point you are trying to actually make?

The point I'm trying to make is what I said in my first post in this thread. Your OP contains many assumptions.

LOGOS have the trademark symbol in the upper right or lower right location. The trademark symbol is for the LOGO, not for the United States. Your assumption was incorrect. Admit it or not.

Unless the trademark in the Sun Microsystems logo means that they've trademarked the sun...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d6bffceb18f8.jpg[/atsimg]

RE: "ATS Members genuine interest in exactly why some of us haven’t participated in the Census to date"

I do not see in your posts awareness that Lockheed Martin Corp with IBM one of the sub-contractors is doing much of the American census work. The same combo has contracts for the Canadian and U.K. censuses.

There is also misinformation in the posts about the amount of information being collected.

I speak with some authority: I am currently on trial in Canada for failure to comply with the 2006 census. My next court appearance is September 9th, 2010. It is in my interest to stay abreast of census developments!

Canada's census is every 5 years (2006, 2011). In 2003 it became known that Canadian census work was out-sourced to Lockheed Martin Corporation (essentially the American military). Lockheed Martin operates outside Canadian and International Law in its manufacture of land mines and cluster munitions. It is in the business of killing people. Lockheed Martin has added a specialty line to its products and services: surveillance. It has a lengthy record of court convictions and fines.

By cooperating with the Census it is my view that I am party to the enrichment of people who would be in jail for life (if they were citizens like me). For the 2006 census there were 2 websites in Canada to coordinate resistance. Thousands of people did not comply in one way and another.

I directly communicated my objections to the head of Statistics Canada, the responsible Government agency for the census. I run an activist email network and helped to inform more Canadians about the situation.

Charges were laid in 2008 against 64 people who did not comply. I was able to find 4 of them. We worked together, along with many supporters. Most people have to abandon the case because it takes more time than they can afford to defend against the charges. Or, it takes more money than they can afford.

I have had to turn my defence over to a lawyer because I was in danger of losing the case. It is too important for everyone that the case be won.

Anyone who has read "IBM and the Holocaust" (by well-known and respected journalist Edwin Black) will fully understand the role of census information as a critical enabler of the Nazi state to commit atrocities. The raison d'etre behind some sections of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (our Constitution), is to prevent the state from collecting comprehensive data on its citizens because of the consistent historical record of abuse that arises. The Government is not allowed to collect the data UNLESS we do not know our rights and the reasons that the rights have been entrenched.

In Canada the case law related to the Right says that I cannot be forced to hand over a "biographical core of personal information such as that persons in a free and democratic society would want to maintain - and control from dissemination to the state."

Prior to the involvement of Lockheed Martin in the Canadian census, the computerized census data base records did not contain the names of individual Canadians. Now it does.

You will find a new development in both Canada and the U.S.: the collection of census data is now on-going. In the U.S. 100,000 census workers were hired and hit the streets door-to-door early in 2009. In Canada, in my city they started early this year (at least) - our census isn't until next year. The LAW in both jurisdictions authorizes a head-count every 5 years (Canada) and I believe every 10 years in your case, in order to establish electoral boundaries, as required in a democracy.

The census questions are either the same or very similar in Canada and the U.S. The "long form" requires you to answer a number of questions regarding ethnicity, your income, the number of bedrooms in your home, etc.
Under the threat of jail and/or a fine the citizen is coerced into handing over the information. Know and protect your rights.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


What my OP contains is many clues that might cause a discerning mind to question and investigate.

If one's investigation of a trade mark then leads them to the truth that the United States is in fact incorporated then, wow! Yes that troubling clue led to true discovery.

Yet the truth is that you are also escaping while trying to acquire the skills of a patent lawyer the fact that the Census is a part of Trade, hence a Trade Mark, and that the Census does involve Trade, hence a Trade Mark, and once again the only Trade regarding the counting of human beings is slavery.

So while you go around in these little pointless circles, trying to convince your self you are correct about an abstract idea that you have, you are missing the fact that a troubling clue can lead to discovery once you begin the process of discovery.

You are missing that the suspicion that the United States is incorporated is a valid one, since in fact the United States is incorporated.

So what we have here is a german sheppard chasing it's own tail running around in circles, entirely missing the larger point while it chases it's own tail.

Meanwhile the thread isn't about Trademarks is it?

The thread is about the census, being conducted by an incorporated entity and there is proof positive that the United States is in fact incorporated.

Thanks for tail chasing!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


S&F Proto. Great work.
I personally have never filled out a census.There can only be a nefarious purpose to counting peoples ethnic,racial and religious backgrounds.The incorporated "United States" IMO, shows that they are no longer concerned with covert tacticts.
Capitas Diminutio Maximas, I believe is the same as what is refferred to as your "strawman"( i apologize if im in error). theres a good article here,,,
www.nomoretyranny.org/strawman.htm

reply to post by SandrafromCanada


Excellent post, and I am sorry to hear about your troubles with the Canadian Government.

The fact that the same corporations are actually providing the logistics to conduct the census in mulitiple nations is telling of how secure that information really is.

If IBM is ultimately the corporate entity compiling the information on behalf of the government, and many other governments then not only do they also have access to this information, they have access to utilize this information in an international environment for their own corporate benefit.

This is not an honest process and we have seen in times in the not too distant past how census information has been used to not just the great detriment of the people, but to intern them and even exterminate them.

Makes you wonder what the people who are thinking, what harm could there be in giving an International Corporation the names of yourself and everyone in your family.

We are condemned to keep repeating history until we learn from it.

Good on you for standing up and truly being counted.

I hope it all works out well for you in the end.

You are a brave and noble soul.

Originally posted by consigliere
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

S&F Proto. Great work.
I personally have never filled out a census.There can only be a nefarious purpose to counting peoples ethnic,racial and religious backgrounds.The incorporated "United States" IMO, shows that they are no longer concerned with covert tacticts.
Capitas Diminutio Maximas, I believe is the same as what is refferred to as your "strawman"( i apologize if im in error). theres a good article here,,,
www.nomoretyranny.org/strawman.htm

I touched upon the little understood practice of Capitas Diminutio Maximas in my opening post and how it is used to actually diminish the person in the eyes of the state, by creating a certain level of status for the individual through the dimishment of their name, which in fact becomes a strawman incorporated entity of the state, with all rights given to and reserved by the state, against the strawman.

This is an unspoken part of the law that is seldom discussed and the vast majority of people are ignorant about.

Yet we can all see it in play by going through our mail and public records and noting who is placing our names in all capital letters JOHN DOE versus John Doe, versus john doe.

This is Capitas Diminutio Maximas at practice, an absolute law that dates back thousands of years, to denote a persons legal status and position in the state.

As the state loves to extoll: Ignorance of the law is no excuse, but in reality they really don't want us to know how the law really works, and what all the law is.

Laws are about State control and not justice, in fact the more laws the State has the less justice there is.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


The only thing I have to say about this whole thing Proto is this.

Read Article I Section 2 of the United States Constitution.

Specifically...

The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

www.archives.gov...

You don't like it? Move to Canada or Mexico.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Ignorantia juris non excusat, and Qui tacet consentit come to mind.

Hey Proto I want to start out by saying great post as are all your other ones. All Roads Lead to Rome is a very good post btw I have been researching the exact same subject.

Anyway I figured I would throw my two cents in here considering I know quite a bit about the topic. I plan on starting on a thread on this soon explaining everything and challenging the skeptics but I'm just going to start out with a few quotes....

“Anyone who partakes of the benefits or privileges of a given statue, or anyone who even places himself into a position where he may avail himself of those benefits at will cannot reach constitutional grounds to redress grievances in the courts against the given statute.”
[Ashwander v T.V.A., 297 U.S. 288, 346, 56 S. Ct. 466, 482, 80 L.Ed. 688 (1936)]

This quote proves that if one decides to engage in social security or any other government franchise with so called "benefits" they completely get rid of their constitutional rights because they claim their domicile in the District of Columbia which is land not protected by the constitution.

“The idea prevails with some, indeed it has found expression in arguments at the bar that we have in this country substantially two national governments: one to be maintained under the Constitution, with all of its restrictions: the other to be maintained by Congress outside the independently of that instrument, by exercising such powers as other nations of the earth are accustomed to... I take leave to say that, if the principles thus announced should ever receive the sanction of a majority of this court a radical and mischievous change in our system of government will result. We will, in that event, pass from the era of constitutional liberty guarded and protected by a written constitution into an era of legislative absolutism. It will be an evil day for American liberty if the theory of a government outside the supreme law of the land finds lodgment in our constitutional jurisprudence. No higher duty rests upon this court than to exert its full authority to prevent all violation of the principles of the Constitution.”
[Downes v Bidwell 182 U.S. 244 (1901)]

Note the TWO different governments. The Constitutional one and the statutory one.

Definition : “United States” 28 USC §3002(15)
USC TITLE 28 > PART VI > CHAPTER 176 > SUBCHAPTER A > §3002
“(15)”United States” means -
(A) a Federal corporation;
(B)an agency, department, commission, board, or other entity of the United States; or
(C)an instrumentality of the United States”

“Corporations are also of all grades, and made for varied objects; all governments are corporations, created by usage and common consent, or grants or charters, which create a body politic for prescribed purposes; but whether they are private, local or general, in their objects, for the enjoyment of property, or the exercise of power, they are all governed by the same rules of law, as to the construction and the obligation of the instrument by which the incorporation is made. One universal rule of law protects persons and property”
[Proprietors of Charles River Bridge v. Proprietors of Warren Bridge, 36 U.S. 420 (1837)]

Proof the United States is a federal corporation.

“...still the obligation to pay taxes is not penal. It is a statutory liability, quasi contractual in nature, enforceable, if there is no exclusive statutory remedy, in the civil courts by the common-law action of debt or indebitatus assumpsit.”
[Milwaukee v White, 296 U.S. 268 (1935)]

26 USC §7701(a)(39)
Persons residing outside the United States
“If any citizen or resident of the United States does not reside in (and is not found in) any United States judicial district, such citizen or resident shall be treated as residing in the District of Columbia for purposes of any provision of this title relating to—
(A) jurisdiction of courts, or
(B) enforcement of summons.”

This proves that domicile in District of Columbia is how courts get jurisdiction.