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Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by Dilligaf28
There was no such thing as a US citizen before the 14th Amendment people were considered citizens of their respective republics which were considered sovereign nations. The US was never meant to be one big Country it was a union of the several states for mutual defense and free trade period.
The 14th amendment is de facto anyway because congress was convened unlawfully by Lincoln to foment the civil war. There was no congress it was effectively dissolved when the southern states seceeded.
[edit on 20-5-2010 by hawkiye]
Search 13 U.S.C. § 221 : US Code - Section 221: Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers
(a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or
willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any
other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce
or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the
Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his
knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in
connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I,
II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to
the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or
farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not
more than $100.
(b) Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a)
of this section, and under the conditions or circumstances
described in such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is
false, shall be fined not more than $500.
(c) Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person
shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his
religious beliefs or to membership in a religious body.
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Dilligaf28
Actually you haven't proved any of your contentions beyond a reasonable doubt and are not in a position to do so, unless you can certify you are the Cheif Census Taker of the United States and take us on an inspection tour that satisfies each and every last question people have.
If the Chief Census Taker invited you on this tour and dutifully satisfied every one on of your questions would you accept that you are in error? I have a distinct notion that you would refute his authority and continue to make your erroneous claims.
Nothing in my opening statement is false, it's using the government's own form, and standardized dictionaries to break down what it says.
Your entire presmise is based on a misinterpretation of the trademark symbol. You have yet to comment regarding mine and other statements about this supposed trademark not being universally applied to all texts containing the words "The United States of America." If the U.S.A. were copyrighted it would indeed be universally applied.
The fact that you are worried that people might make what you consider a poor decision based on the discussion of things like words and dictionaries reeks of the kind of tyranny that is the anti-thesis to freedom.
Knowledge is the key to the opposition of tyranny. False knowledge purpoted without proof is a form of tyranny in and of itself.
Freedom is choice.
Indeed freedom is choice. The strongest freedom can only come from the strongest choices. The strongest choices are based in reason and are rational without great leaps of logic involved.
Declaring you have made sound arguments that are merely opininion that you purport to be fact is disengenuous since everyone is expressing nothing but opinions, since no one has complete and total first hand knowledge and is in a position of accountability.
For an argument to be sound it must able to be supported by documented facts and sources. To have a sound argument is not to have a correct argument at all. I have not at all claimed my opinions are facts. I have stated what my opinions are and backed them up with the facts that allowed me to form my opinion. You also do realize that you have just stated your supposed correctness on this matter is an opinion?
In reality you haven't done much but embark on a series of personal attacks while trying to make partial and incomplete definitions of precise words fit your perspective.
I have not insulted you or any other poster. I have engaged in no personal attacks of any sort. I have engaged your arguments and have offered arguments that are more sound with sources and have been ignored partially or completely. My youtube link is not an attack on you as a person; it is an easily understood metaphor illustrating what a debate between someone with sound opinion backed up by fact and someone basing their argument off of their own opinions without regard to fact.
In fact many of the ATS members who study matters pertaining to the law and corporate government have shredded the skeptics, schills, and other dysfunctional thinkers in this thread.
Many ATS posters within your own thread have offered ample evidence to contradict your notions yet have been met with insults, ridicule, and other ineffective and untentable statements.
This posting marks the official and final end of my involvement with this thread. I would like to again remind the readers that when two parties offer debate both parties can have valid arguments supported by facts with only one victor at the end of the debate. Those who debate with illogical and unsupported statements again fit the description of this video:
Sound arguments Vs. Untentable Arguments
[edit on 21/5/10 by Protopla
United States Code Title 26 Subtitle F Chapter 7701 Cornell University Law
(a) When used in this title, where not otherwise distinctly expressed or manifestly
incompatible with the intent thereof—
.....The term “person” shall be construed to mean and include an individual, a .....trust, estate, partnership, association, company or corporation.
(a)When used in this title, where not otherwise distinctly expressed or
manifestly incompatible with the intent thereof—
.....(30) United States person
.....The term “United States person” means—
..........(A) a citizen or resident of the United States,
..........(B) a domestic partnership,
..........(C) a domestic corporation,
..........(D) any estate (other than a foreign estate, within the meaning of paragraph ..........(31)), and
...............(E) any trust if—
....................(i) a court within the United States is able to exercise primary ....................supervision over the administration of the trust, and
....................(ii) one or more United States persons have the authority to control all ....................substantial decisions of the trust.
I have pointed out that the O.P. when addressing the question of not one, but five different census takers, is their any evidence that Proto answered fraudulently and presumably answered to the best of his knowledge. I have not read a single post of yours that reveals the O.P. to be a liar, or to have willfully defraud the Census Bureau, or member in this site. Indeed, the O.P. diligently made clear that he was not offering any legal advice nor advising anyone to take the road he did, and even still, it is not enough for you to take up reasoned debate and refute the claims, you instead must begin a campaign to chill speech. How such a thing should ever be considered as valid debate is beyond me.
Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
..I'm pretty sure most people by now have turned their forms in, before this thread.. or threads like this..
And if I told the Government I was a white male ..... what difference would it make? ..
I usually agree with most people on this thread (well obviously not the OP) .. just think this census thing gets taken way out of proportion.
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Originally posted by jackflap
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
Wonderful post my friend. You can see clearly that when presented with actual evidence that these people will defer to scare tactics to assert their perceived control. This is how they work and maintain their status. Through fear.
The ADL definitely has a vested interest in silencing the truth. They must maintain their control over our policies to further their own agendas. When people begin waking up, it scares them. So they resort to scare tactics.
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Your OP contains MANY incorrect assumptions on your part, not the least of which is the very first one: The United States is a Registered Trademark. As has been pointed out (and you could have EASILY found this had you had the least desire to Google it) the trademark is for the LOGO. Several members have pointed out this fact, but you continue, headstrong, down the path of suspicion, unwilling to simply admit that you were mistaken and that your tin foil cap is just a little, little bit too tight.
That's fine. Continue with your colorful fantasy.
All I can say is, Have a nice trip.
Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
My friend, I too often rely upon awkwardly written sentences, and I hope you understand, as I think you do, what I meant, but for clarification sake, allow me to restate what I said:
Proto has not revealed or offered any evidence of making fraudulent claims, nor has he shown any evidence of willfully refusing to answer.
There, hopefully the matter has been clarified. Thanks again for this thread, Proto.