reply to post by hawkiye
I am interested to know on which document you base the claim that the states were sovereign before the Cival War. According to Article IV section IV
of the United States Constitution
Section 4 - Republican government
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and
on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.
I can see where this sectioned could be misconstrued as stating that the States are free . The term "Republican Form of Government" here clearly
refers to a government formed of, by, and for the people. What in the time of the Founders was regarded as a Republic was a government of, by, and
for the people; and they meant this definition to fit both the U.S. Government and the government of the States.
Article IV section II states:
Section 2 - State citizens, Extradition
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
A Person charged in any State with Treason, Felony, or other Crime, who shall flee from Justice, and be found in another State, shall on demand of the
executive Authority of the State from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime.
(No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation
therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, But shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.) (This
clause in parentheses is superseded by the 13th Amendment.)
I do not think that anyone with even an average understanding of law can claim the states were sovereign under the Constitution given the above.
Extradition being mandated by the U.S. Government would be a clear violation of their sovereignty if they were indeed sovereign.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common
defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution
for the United States of America.
Here again is another example of the United States as a union not as several nations bound together in a confederacy (which would more aptly describe
the type of government you insist we had pre Cival war)
Section 10 - Powers prohibited of States
No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any
Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of
Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.
No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for
executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the
Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress.
No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or
Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of
Given that all 13 of the "colonies" or "states" ratified this Constitution in its entirety and given the above limits on the states I feel I have
clearly demonstrated your viewpoint on this matter is in error.