The new Con/Lib Dem coalition will privatise the NHS

The new Con/Lib Dem coalition will privatise the NHS - goodbye free healthcare, page 1

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Topic started on 20-5-2010 @ 08:36 AM by Durant

Thatcher privatised the water, gas, electricity etc. etc. and now her golden boy David Cameron and his new coalition friend Nick Clegg are starting the second wave - finishing off (the UK) and what Thatcher started in the 1980s.

Nick Clegg has argued for years that the NHS should be privatised, it's one of his 'pet' ideas. Hey, maybe it started when he joined the Conservative party under Thatcher (before pretending to be a Lib Dem for a few years as a better option to leadership)

Apparently Nick Clegg believes in an 'insurance model' for the NHS, hey it worked so well in the US for years hasn't it!

Nick Clegg has called for the NHS to be 'broken up' and said the Lib Dems should consider replacing it with a European-style insurance system.
In a little-noticed interview before he took over as leader, he said the party should consider a social insurance system to replace the present tax-funded Health Service.
It would mean healthcare would no longer be free at the point of use with patients who can afford to pay more getting better care.

End to free healthcare in UK

reply posted on 20-5-2010 @ 08:45 AM by thoughtsfull

I'm sure this will all turn out to be more Daily mail hot wind.. I honestly can not see the general public standing for deep changes that mean an upfront payment system.. and changes like that will be fought tooth and nail...

Tho some European systems are better than the UKs... I dislike the French one in particlar.. But that just brings me onto my next point.. what on earth do they mean by European style?

Definate revolution tho if they'd said America style insurance

reply posted on 20-5-2010 @ 08:56 AM by poedxsoldiervet

reply to post by Durant

Yea we see how well free healthcare has worked for your country..... Socialism doesnt work look at the the PIIGS, and Mother Russia

reply posted on 20-5-2010 @ 09:10 AM by thoughtsfull

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet

Free Healthcare is not Free... we pay for it in taxes, and long may it be free at the point of delivery... and I've never minded paying, since it is always there should I need it

and I'd pay more for a better service... I'm no socialist

Some of the Euromodels are better than the UKs while some are not.. Tho I do take this article with a pinch of salt.. any Gov that tries to privatise the NHS further will end up with a small revolt on their hands..

reply posted on 20-5-2010 @ 09:10 AM by Durant

Originally posted by thoughtsfull

I'm sure this will all turn out to be more Daily mail hot wind.. I honestly can not see the general public standing for deep changes that mean an upfront payment system.. and changes like that will be fought tooth and nail...

Tho some European systems are better than the UKs... I dislike the French one in particlar.. But that just brings me onto my next point.. what on earth do they mean by European style?

Definate revolution tho if they'd said America style insurance

You found Nick's comments vague did you? Well, that's the *new* politics, low on detail, big on hype and BS.

The Daily Mail link was only reporting what Nick Clegg had SAID, it wasn't a rumour! He had also said it in an earlier interview with The Independent newspaper and wrote policy papers on it while working for Leon Brittain.

Nick Clegg recommends private healthcare - he says he uses for himself and his family - well that's OK if you can afford it, and he certainly can as the taxpayer pays all his expenses ,- and you don't have any prior health conditions which preclude you from health insurance.

At the moment you can receive free point of use care without conditions, any insurance system will only run on profit alone. If you believe anything else you're either nuts or very rich (and therefore it's irrelevant to you).

[edit on 20-5-2010 by Durant]

reply posted on 20-5-2010 @ 09:17 AM by thoughtsfull

reply to post by Durant

Hmmm... there was me thinking I pay into a national insurance scheme.. I wonder where my NIC funds go

The word is rather missleading, as are some of the other Euro models use of the word... but from friends in France it seems they tend to loan each other money should they need an op... but get the cash back quite promptly..

However I dislike that model since it is not free at point of delivery.. I would like to see what Nick Clegg is on about before I cast my dispertions and prepare to rebel

I understand the Swedish model is much better

and still free at point of delivery.. hence why I wonder what models are being thrown around in the article.

Edit to add: I have one friend in France she had to get by on no benifits for 12 weeks when she was made redundant... yet when the funds came through she was paid 80% of her leaving salary, rather than some poxy JSA..

[edit on 20/5/10 by thoughtsfull]

reply posted on 20-5-2010 @ 09:26 AM by pieman

According to the link, back in 2005 he said that the lib-dems should consider an insurance scheme. The story was in the Daily Mail at the end of April, when he was out campaigning and looked like he might just win. The story just happens to be in the paper on the same day hew was supposed to meet nurses.

I have no idea weather he still believes it or not but the story linked is just a s**t stirring exercise. He's even shown in a hitleresque pose with a spooky mansion in the background.

[edit on 20/5/10 by pieman]

reply posted on 20-5-2010 @ 09:36 AM by Durant

Originally posted by thoughtsfull
Some of the Euromodels are better than the UKs while some are not.. Tho I do take this article with a pinch of salt.. any Gov that tries to privatise the NHS further will end up with a small revolt on their hands..

It won't matter if there is a revolt; not with the stitch up of 55% dissolution rule and the Tory plan to 180 peers to the Lords - all Tory and Lib Dem of course!. The Tories and Lib Dems are enough to get it through and they are just interested in cutting spending on a massive scale so by the time of the next election they will be able to offer bribes in tax breaks to the middle classes to buy the election. Without the health service to pay for (and you'd be an idiot to believe you would pay less taxes just because the NHS goes - they will say the taxes are to pay for something else anyway) the Tories will save billions for their own pockets.

The system is fair at the moment. And no one should have to take out loans to pay for an operation or treatment. Also, what happens to those who can't get or afford those loans?

For example, say you or a member of your family is seriously ill, and has a pre-existing health condition. That the treatment/operation is very expensive due to the nature of the illness and even a 'few friends' could not help you out. But as you or your family are ill you are not 'trusted' high credit scored enough to get a loan. You or your family member dies.

It's all very well talking abstractly about 'various models' but the fact of the matter is if the NHS goes it will leave a large amount of the population out of healthcare.

reply posted on 20-5-2010 @ 09:50 AM by projectvxn

It was never free to begin with. Just because the money doesn't come out of your pocket at the time of service doesn't mean no cost was imposed upon you.

The UK government is broke, despite huge taxes.

And then there's this:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I know you Brits love your HC system, but like much of Europe, those services are becoming unsustainable black holes where tax payer money disappears at ever increasing levels.

I don't think you guys are going to see a full privatization of your HC system. Likely you'll see a system with a public option covering basics and heavily regulated insurance companies covering the big stuff.

reply posted on 20-5-2010 @ 10:27 AM by thoughtsfull

reply to post by Durant

Revolts and recalling parliment are 2 different things...

Anyway, some of the other European models are free at the point of delivery. The NHS is the oldest model of it's type. others have come along and improved on the model, bit like our railways and other infrastructure that is now crumbling and needs reinvestment.

Personally I would like to see an improved NHS while maintaining the free at point of delivery aspect... hence why I want to know what model Nick Clegg is on about.. the part privatisation that has taken place has been in my opinion disasterous, and the trend needs to stop.

Switiching to another model does not mean losing any of what we already expect from the NHS.. So I will wait on what is proposed before jumping to conclusions.

reply posted on 20-5-2010 @ 10:36 AM by butcherguy

Originally posted by thoughtsfull
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet

Free Healthcare is not Free... we pay for it in taxes,

It is free for those who pay no taxes.

We have plenty of them in the US, I would be willing to bet that a welfare state has even more of them.

reply posted on 20-5-2010 @ 10:44 AM by Misoir

reply to post by butcherguy

It will probably be the Macedonian model of No universal health care. They will break it up, privatize it and make it become for profit.

Then you can kick those bumbs out.

reply posted on 20-5-2010 @ 10:50 AM by nik1halo

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by thoughtsfull
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet

Free Healthcare is not Free... we pay for it in taxes,
It is free for those who pay no taxes.

We have plenty of them in the US, I would be willing to bet that a welfare state has even more of them.

And you would probably be right.

Either way, this will never happen IMO. We seem to be forgetting that what Nick Clegg says and actually does are very different things, also, the Lib Dems have a minority say on the running of the nation, they would have to get this past the Tories first.

The problem is not the NHS in general, but the way it is run, with huge amounts of money wasted on IT systems that don't work and unneeded pen pushers, who outnumber the bloody hospital beds. The NHS needs to be run more efficiently. I wouldn't mind paying a couple more quid a month to keep it going either, and I doubt many people would.

As previously stated, if this did happen, there would be a serious uprising.

reply posted on 20-5-2010 @ 10:50 AM by Frakkerface

More dailymail bull.

WHY DOES NOONE EVER QUOTE FROM A BROADSHEET? Oh yeah, alarmist nonsense is the aim of this website, i forgot.

reply posted on 6-2-2011 @ 05:31 PM by SparkyP

reply to post by Frakkerface

I know this is a old thread but this is going to happen and the divide between the rich and poor will grow. We need to nationalise not privatise.

www.guardian.co.uk...

reply posted on 6-2-2011 @ 05:49 PM by Janky Red

Hell ya, privatizing it will make it cheaper, because people go into business to save yall money