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Americans Are No Better Than Mexicans

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posted on May, 19 2010 @ 09:30 PM
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I am sure this thread title is incendiary to some readers though it really should not be. In fact, it should stand as an inarguable statement of obvious fact. History, anthropology, and common sense have elucidated this point clearly enough. For what it's worth I've no doubt the content of the thread will be dramatically less pleasant than the title for some. In the immigration debate I see a lot of people talking about how terrible Mexico is, how the Mexicans should "fix the mess they made" instead of bringing their "murder and corruption" to the United States. I am here to tell you that is nationalist and possibly racist polemic. Simply put, it is wrong.

If you're an American, let me explain something to you: you are not responsible for the fortune of your country. You did not built it. You've done almost nothing to create or support American wealth. More controversially, you do not necessarily deserve it. The fortune of the United States can be traced to it's origins as a land occupied by nearly unarmed natives who were deceived, exploited, and attacked with biological warfare and overwhelming military superiority with the simple goal of taking what they had. Once it was taken, the seeds of United States superiority were planted and fertilized with the blood of over a million slaughtered and largely innocent people.

Is anyone alive today responsible for that travesty? No. But many make a veritable career out of ignoring it and strutting about with pride as if they rightfully earned every good thing on God's green earth. This is hubris and dishonesty. How convenient to divorce yourself from these recorded historical facts while you are counting with satisfaction the benefits you feel you deserve. The benefits you fight so hard to keep from the hands of the unwashed poor who care more about feeding their children than they do about filling out your paperwork in your native language. How dare they.

Of course Americans have done great things, but not always with pure motives and not always by pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps. These are myths all nations pass down the generations to shore up patriotism, that great currency that can be exchanged by politicians for the blood of young men on a faraway battlefield. But ignorance is not a virtue. To keep what is needed from the hands of the needy is not a virtue. And today's Mexicans are not to blame for the country some of them wish to flee. They deserve no more blame for the condition of their place of birth than you deserve credit for yours as a United States citizen. A bitter pill, but one the United States must swallow if it ultimately wants to balance moral uprightness and enlightenment with military and economic advantage.



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posted on May, 19 2010 @ 09:38 PM
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Every hard working American contributes to this countries success. From the military to those responsible for building roads to those who serve us food. These people and others contribute. There's nothing wrong with being nationalistic and having pride in your country.


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posted on May, 19 2010 @ 09:41 PM
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Your assessment cant be farther from the truth.

America is as great as it is because of its citizens & legal aliens. The people of USA are hard working, we may not have to raise our own livestock but make no mistake Americans work more hours yearly than maybe any other country in the world. Certainly more than Europeans or the Chinese.

Americans are entrepreneurial and forward looking. Americans enjoy diverse culture and art, inventing new foods and technology. Americans of all generations throughout its history have contributed to it being the greatest, richest, most diverse, and productive country in the world.

Part of these Americans I talk about are also Mexicans, but these Mexicans came here legally through hard work and diligence. Not by taking advantage of geographic luck and crossing a border to the north just because its so convenient.

Mexicans can be classified as two types of people ethnically, those who are decedents of the Spanish like salma hayeck and those who are decedents of Aztecs (I think its the Aztecs). The native Mexicans are the ones who are only 5'4" and stocky like george castonza.

I have no problem with even the illegals who come here to WORK and try to improve their socioeconomic status by doing hard work. What i have HUGE problem with are the ones who come here to take advantage of our generous safety nets, and to act like parasites by not contributing, and the ones who dont know what contraception and cant afford to raise their own kids.



[edit on 19-5-2010 by Desolate Cancer]



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 09:44 PM
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LOL what a retarded title for a thread.


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posted on May, 19 2010 @ 09:48 PM
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I'm no better than my next door neighbor. However, I don't want to wake up one morning to find that he has moved himself into my house and that I am now expected to feed and clothe him and his family. And while being an "undocumented resident" of my home his wife pops out a new child, they automatically become a forever resident of my house and stake claim to a portion of it because it is now their birthright.



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 09:48 PM
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Oh good, a thread for the excuse of one side to grandstand their delusional quasi-racist bilge in the form of nationalistic pride while patting each other on the ass and an excuse for the other side to ignore the reality and detrimental effects of illegal immigration on our society while pretending to care about the downtrodden from behind their keyboards. Wow, you just never see threads like this on ATS. Hooray for an original concept.



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 09:53 PM
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Mexicans are Americans

Mexico is a part of the continent known as North America. Thus, Mexicans are Americans. In terms of who is better between nations, such a distinction is largely irrelevant, and the obvious baiting this thread hopes to accomplish is pointless, and adds nothing towards offering a path towards peace and prosperity. Attempting to shame the people of The United States of America for past misdeeds, while willfully ignoring the past misdeeds of many Native Americans even before the first European settlers arrived only reveals a dubious agenda, that is seemingly intended to fan the flames of division.

Every sovereign nation has the right to protect their borders and control the flow of immigration into their lands. Mexico does this and so does the U.S.A., and if this thread is some sort of round about way of attacking the people of the U.S.A. for wanting immigration laws enforced, it has only accomplished in attacking people for being people. The U.S.A. is a nation of laws, and under the Supreme Law of the Land, all people are equal under the law, which means no one is better than another.



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 09:58 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyElohim
 


I wholeheartedly agree with you. A lot of Americans seem to forget the ebb and flow of history. It is becoming increasingly more obvious to me. I can now see that arrogant American pride that a lot of the world talks about.

The IDEOLOGY of America, is a fine one, yes. Land of the free, home of the brave, etc. But how free has our land been as of lately? We can all admit that under the government of recent years, we've becoming less and less free. Our own COUNTRYMEN screwed us out of our jobs and money.

Seriously. Who is responsible for moving so many of our businesses off shore?

Who originally inhabited this land? Who established America, and where did the come from, and why did they come here to establish America? Why isn't Europe now America?


All this attention to immigration while bankers are stealing your hard-earned money? Did everyone forget who the enemy was? How many people on this site believe organizations within America have funded/fueled drug-wars in other countries?

I mean, seriously, people.

This isn't an attack on America, imo. This is a blatant address to the American people. We, presently, are NOT the country we WISH to be.

So what the # are we bickering for? Why are we making more out of Jose, the guy that came here for a better life ; than Mr. Banking-Business-Suit-Man, the guy who is in an OFFICE OF POWER within our country and ACTIVELY screwing us over?





Seriously. Illegals? Taking our jobs? Ask yourself, honestly, why don't we have more jobs? Who made the situation so scarce?

Illegals, killing and raping our citizens? Do you think that being illegal has anything to do with being a #ed up psycho? Wouldn't such a #ed up person resort to that whether or NOT they are illegal? I mean, seriously.



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 09:59 PM
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The southern border of the US has been unchanged for 150 years. It's not going to change unless we adopt a dubious North American Union, as some influential statesmen desire. When you say that Americans don't necessarily deserve the luxuries they were born into, what are you really saying? Are you saying that Mexicans are more deserving? You're indirectly arguing for wealth distribution across nations. We all know how destructive that would be.

With respect, it doesn't really matter how one "feels" if person A was born into a millionaire family, and person B was born in a slum. It sucks. Person B probably thinks that person A should help him, but you cannot legislate good will. If you do, you might as well toss our Constitution out the window.

I don't feel the least bit bad about saying Mexicans should try to fix their own country instead of migrating here. I also don't feel bad about chastising these immigrants, legal or otherwise, when they complain about the so-called unfairness of our legal system. As I have pride in my country, I wish Mexicans would take pride in theirs.

edit to clarify - when I say Mexicans, I mean residents of Mexico. Not immigrants, some of whom I consider to have no real pride in their country. Many of them come here, wave Mexican flags, and pretend that they are supporting Mexico when they are defiling both the US and Mexico. This sentiment extends to immigrants from all countries of course, but to be brutally honest I've only seen that kind of disrespect from Mexican immigrants.

[edit on 19-5-2010 by Son of Will]



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by PatesHatriots
Oh good, a thread for the excuse of one side to grandstand their delusional quasi-racist bilge in the form of nationalistic pride while patting each other on the ass and an excuse for the other side to ignore the reality and detrimental effects of illegal immigration on our society while pretending to care about the downtrodden from behind their keyboards. Wow, you just never see threads like this on ATS. Hooray for an original concept.


Well, look at it this way. It's all fine and good to conduct a policy debate on the harms of illegal immigration and what to do about them. That's not what I'm trying to oppose here. What bothers me is the surrender to the seduction of this notion that if we are well off, we surely "made our breaks". If our neighbor is not so well off, it's a reflection on their character. That they want to steal what you have when all most of them want to do is be part of another society. It's not that they shouldn't follow the process to do this legitimately, but we should have compassion and a kind hand with those who don't know better yet. There might be a good reason why, there might not be. Life is a case by case sort of thing. I see your point and I admit I was polarizing, but not with the hopes of creating the kind of dialog you rightfully criticize above.



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 10:01 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyElohim
 


I choose to take your thread title literally.

.......... and I agree. Nobody, as a nationalistic group, is 'better' than another. Each national group has their own strengths and cultural ownerships.

.........but what does this have to do with illegal immigration into the United States? Or anywhere else? Surely, I feel for peoples who struggle within the confines of their own nations -- I feel it for those of my own; I help those than I can.

There is a bottom line, and it is this: If a person or group attempt to flee to a nation without legal waiver, then they are illegal, and should be sent back home. That concept is true for every nation. There are legal means to occupy a country and make a new life.

It's a sad thing, truly, but every resource is not available for all. I wish that were not so, but it is.

Yes, Europeans conquered what is now the United States. They went on to purchase Alaska, and to garner other occupied territories, and the whole comprises the United States of America. It is done.

I know very few Americans that feel they are 'better' than other nations. Most of them are humble, hard-working folk that want nothing more than to raise their families, to be left to their own devices, to make it or break it on their own. That is the spirit of America, IMO. There are many hard-working Americans that are also of Mexican decent. They found their way though the legal channels, and they are perhaps some of the most patriotic.

I look forward to a time when we don't define people's dreams by their nationality.



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 10:02 PM
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Yes, the United States of America is no better than Mexico.

Mexico is no better than the United States of America.

So all you damn US of A citizens illegally in Mexico; get the hell back to your own country!

Turnabout is fair play I guess!



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyElohim
 


I agree with your claim ' Americans are no better than Mexicans'

You then go on to attack Americans (let's face it -- you didn't set out to compliment Americans, did you ? In fact, you're quite accusatory, despite your several disclaimers --- so let's be honest and agree that your intention, no matter how cloaked, was to slap Americans' faces, and you did )

You say Americans attacked basically unarmed natives and slaughtered half a million. And then built their nation upon that

You say Americans have no reason to pride themselves either on the way they founded their nation -- or grew it

And then you conclude by saying that Mexicans are not to blame for their current situation -- any more than Americans should pride themselves on theirs


I think you got lost in the verbiage


Mexico's history ? The incredible blood-sacrifices indulged in by their ancestors ? The slaughters in which they indulged ? You haven't compared that with the slaughters you were so quick to detail in Americans' history. Why not ?

Your point -- and it's confused as it's to be suspected you are also --- seems to be that Americans grew their nation through warfare of various kinds. You left out the warfare in which Mexicans' ancestors indulged in order to portray them as victims who landed on earth only recently. When in truth, Mexicans' forebears were indulging in unimaginable carnage LONG before 'America' existed

So what you've overlooked (deliberately or not) is that Americans ARE BETTER at what they do

Conversely, your argument is that Mexicans are WORSE at trying to do what Americans do so well

Read your OP again, through the eyes of the reader, and you cannot deny that is all that can be drawn from your lecture


So what we're left with is that Americans ARE BETTER at a lot of things than are Mexicans

Yet Mexicans WANT what Americans have achieved

And you appear to believe that the winners (in this case, Americans) should be punished for being better at what they do and have done

and you appear to believe that because Americans ARE BETTER -- they should be punished by being forced to hand the fruits of their labour to Mexicans -- because Mexicans can't keep up with Americans


Gee -- let's hope you never get a place on the Olympic Committee --- or you'd be handing the Gold Medals to the losers, to reward them for being losers. And on the podium, you'd probably berate the true winners for being better

What's that philosophy called --- is it 'intellectual communism' or something ?



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 10:06 PM
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reply to post by Son of Will
 


I like that no matter what ... the issue of immigration will have everyone, both with the PTB and against, agreeing.


You know what I think might happen? A bunch of dumbass Americans and dumbass Mexicans will get sucked into the party and just go crazy. Then the "SOLUTION" will be presented by our friends in the government. And we'll find ourselves with no more boarder, because the "infestation" is just too deep-seeded now. So ... we'll have to learn to "cOoPeRaTe~" and be one big family.



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by Desolate Cancer
 


Mexicans can be classified as two types of people ethnically, those who are decedents of the Spanish like salma hayeck and those who are decedents of Aztecs (I think its the Aztecs). The native Mexicans are the ones who are only 5'4" and stocky like george castonza.


there are so many things wrong with this, where do i begin...mexicans can have and not limited to the following ancestry, spanish + a multitude of different native american indian blood, aztec, maya, olmec etc etc, french, irish, german, african, north african, middle eastern, sephardic jew, gypsy, the list goes on and on...salma hayak is half lebanese and half spanish ancestry. this may explain why there are light skinned, and dark skinned people of mexican ancestry, spanish & hispanic people in general have many different "races" running through their blood and cannot be categorized "ethnically" so easily.



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 10:19 PM
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Welcome to The United States of America. You are kidding me what kind

of propaganda are you spewing? You or we did not build it? What do

you think we do everyday sit on our hands? Our relatives and

forefathers built this Great Country by blood sweat and tears with God's

help. We do not deserve the wealth of our Great Nation? Of course we

do this is why America is so great an individual can still create as much

wealth as they want and if an individual or individuals want to they

can share their wealth with others by giving to the less fortunate with

out somebody or powerful group sticking their hands into our pockets.

Oops that has already started to happen. Your message is right out

of the leftist handbook.



When you come to this country legally their are laws to abide by

when you come to this country illegally their are laws to abide by.

Do not put America on a guilt trip that is the last thing this Nation

needs and the back door is open to Mexico and if you cross over the

border The U.S. can not guarantee your safety. I will stay on this side

of the border if you know what I mean and take my chances. ^Y^



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by Tinman67
I'm no better than my next door neighbor. However, I don't want to wake up one morning to find that he has moved himself into my house and that I am now expected to feed and clothe him and his family. And while being an "undocumented resident" of my home his wife pops out a new child, they automatically become a forever resident of my house and stake claim to a portion of it because it is now their birthright.


A fair thing to say, but I'm not sure that illegal immigrants really expect United States citizens to feed them. Why do you think that? I haven't seen any illegal immigrants protesting for the right to be fed at none of their own expense. Also, immigration law doesn't make an illegal immigrant a "forever resident" of your house. The child, sure. It's funny you point that out, though, beings as the very reason you consider your nation to be your birthright is because you "popped out" there.



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 10:21 PM
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Let us forget what America did to Mexico.

Let us also forget that Mexico is a crap-storm, in part, because of what America did.

Seriously. Do you hear yourselves?

"You went into my house, you smashed everything and crapped all over the walls and ceiling. You claimed my driveway and pushed me into the backyard to live. I can't make my way into the house because there is so much crap everywhere. When I tried to go to your house, you told me to go clean up mine and stop trying to mooch off the glory of your achievements."

"Stop being a sore loser and go clean up your house, that stuff happened ages ago."

"But we're like this because of what you did, and have been doing over the time since then ..."

"Listen, don't try to turn this on me. You need to recognize that you're a poor house-keeper. You need to establish some order over there. My house is clean because I keep it clean."

"But what about all the stuff you did to my house ..."

"That doesn't matter."

"That house, the one you live in, used to belong to someone else, you know."

"Yeah, we got a really good deal on it."

"You tricked them. You took advantage of them ..."

"They should have known better. That stuff happened way back in the day, so it doesn't matter."

"Like slavery?"

"SHHH! WE DONT SPEAK OF SLAVERY. IT WAS VERY BAD. WE WILL FOREVER BEAR THE ANGUISH OF THOSE TIMES."

"What about the drug wars of the last 50-60 years? The killing, the violence, the chaos?"

"Meh. What about it? Old news. Anyway, fix your country, you ingrate."



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 10:22 PM
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Americans Are No Better Than Mexicans


Mexicans Are No Better Than Americans





I'll agree to the two above statements. The rest of ops post.




posted on May, 19 2010 @ 10:24 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 



I second what you said. IMO, nobody is better than anyone else. If anything we should all learn to live together. We all have a lot we can learn from each other.





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