France Sets $185 Fine in Muslim Veil Ban

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse


The problem is Shariah law

NOWHERE in the Sharia Law does it say that a woman MUST wear a burqa.

N O W H E R E.



STOP SPREADING IGNORANCE.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by airspoon

 

The problem is Shariah law, which is Muslim law and exists in Muslim radical countries. These beliefs are carried over when Muslims from countries which accept Shariah as the law of the land and immigrate to European countries. There is a direct correlation as to what has caused the increase in violence, rapes, and honor killings in Europe and Islamic fundamentalism.

Sharia law is cultural, blame the Arabs, it is Arabic culture, the turbines are cultural, the cloths is cultural.

There is a direct correlation as to what has caused the increase in violence, rapes, and honor killings in Europe and Islamic fundamentalism.

From that comment, we can all conclude that this individual will ultimately waste our time.

For you to correlate violence rapes and honor killings, which are all against Islam, with Islam, then surely you are beyond any discussion. Islam has setup a punishment for all three actions, violence, rape and honor killings.

At this point there is no more to say, you can keep blabering all you like..

As the poster above me stated:

You (not only you, but the likes of you too) keeping spreading this kind of ignorance is directly correlated to an AGENDA.

Otherwise you would stop when a thing is refuted countless times.


Imagine me saying "There was no holocaust. No jews were killed in WW2 by Hitler".

then people showing me documents, pictures, videos of killed jews, heck I even visited Dachau and other places myself.

And after all this, for me to KEEP saying that there were no mass killings of Jews in WW2 means that I HAVE AN AGENDA.

I want to dismiss that, and dehumanize jews, brainwash people, spread hatred and make them fight them.

This is exactly what you are doing with muslims.

Originally posted by skajkingdom
..........
- FALSE.

I am muslim. Find me ONE QUOTE / verse from qur'an where it says that a woman not wearing a scarf SHOULD BE RAPED / Treated as prostitute.
...

Really?... Should i begin?...

4:34: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

www.sublimequran.org...

That's just one. I could post dozens of other parts of the Quran where the prophet Mohammed says how women should be punished, including stoned to death if they have sex before marriage.

There is also the following fact.

WARNING, IN THE FOLLOWING LINK THERE ARE EXPLICIT, AND DISTURBING IMAGES OF TORTURED CHILDREN, WOMEN TO BE PUT TO DEATH ECT BECAUSE OF SHARI'A LAW/MUSLIM LAW.

www.middle-east-info.org...

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

4:34: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

Excuse me, where in that verse does it say that you should rape women who don't wear a scarf?

Huh?

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


First of all, Sharia does not always apply to non-Muslims. For instance, in most Islamic countries, non-Muslim women do not have to cover their heads or follow many other laws/rules directed towards the Islamic religion.

Second, just because a nation follows Shariah, does not mean that it is radical. Almost all countries follow religious rules. Take for instance the US, where in most states/counties, you can't buy alcohol on Sundays. In some counties you can't buy alcohol at all. In most counties/parishes, women can't go topless. There are many laws and many more traditions based on Christianity in the US, does this mean that the US is radical too, simply because we base laws and traditions on a religion? To many Muslims, the head scarf for a woman, is the same as a shirt is to a Christian. To cover the head is the same as to cover the breasts for the most part. Does this mean that Christian women or western women are oppressed because they are "forced" to wear shirts?

Many Muslims only apply Shariah to other Muslims, since Shariah is derived from the Quran, among other sources. Unlike Christians, Muslims or the Islamic religion doesn't believe that they have to convert everyone they come across, though they do believe that they can't turn someone away who does want to convert. Because of this, they don't feel as if they have to shove their religion down the throats of people without the same beliefs, unlike Christians of course.

--airspoon

Edited for grammar.

[edit on 20-5-2010 by airspoon]

[edit on 20-5-2010 by airspoon]

Originally posted by skajkingdom
.......
Excuse me, where in that verse does it say that you should rape women who don't wear a scarf?

Huh?

Excuse me, are you going to tell us for example that Mohammed did not order the stoning of women for having sex outside of marriage?

Are you going to tell us that Shari'a law does not say how to punish women according to how the prophet Mohammed treated women, and according to his responses?...

Are you going to tell us that Mohammed did not take women/slaves from caravans he attacked and that women are not seen as being below men?...




[edit on 20-5-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Excuse me, are you going to tell us for example that Mohammed did ordered the stoning of women for having sex outside of marriage?

The JEWS of Madina came to Muhammad to test him, and brought an adulteress and asked him what is the law pertaining to her. He told them that in THEIR Bible the punishment is stoning.
It is not in Qur'an.

Are you going to tell us that Shari'a law does not say how to punish women according to how the prophet Mohammed treated women, and according to his responses?...

Not woman, but both men or women. The punishments are regulated as in EVERY law. There is still no stoning.

Are you going to tell us that Mohammed took women from slave caravans and women are not seen a being below men?...

Woman and Man in islam are EQUAL, before god, pertaining to the belief, to their rights, etc.
The only differences are objective (biological) differences, which are unavoidable.
And do not bring any verse now which you picked up on some anti islamic website (e.g. "Oh noez, the womans testimony is only worth half of that of a man ..." yadda yadda)
All that has been refuted COUNTLESS times.

It is simply the people full of hatred that are shutting their eyes, ears and hearts and do not want to understand.

Rank hatred has already appeared from their mouths: What their hearts conceal is far worse.
(Qur'an, 3:118)

[edit on 20-5-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by airspoon


There is a big difference between that and the prophet of a religion doing the following things which tells why there is so much violence, and rapes by Muslim fundamentalists.

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 717:
Narrated Ibn Aun:

I wrote a letter to Nafi and Nafi wrote in reply to my letter that the Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives; the Prophet got Juwairiya on that day. Nafi said that Ibn 'Umar had told him the above narration and that Ibn 'Umar was in that army.
...

www.usc.edu...

Women seen as slaves and "booty"...

Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 34 :: Hadith 432
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

that while he was sitting with Allah's Apostle he said, "O Allah's Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interrupt us?" The Prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do it. No soul that which Allah has destined to exist, but will surely come into existence.

www.quranexplorer.com...





[edit on 20-5-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


First of all, there is no proof that I see, that the translation is even correct. Second, the Christian bible speaks of the same kinds of things or even worse. Due to my eyes burning when I crack a bible, I will refrain from quoting scripture but anyone else is more than capable of just looking up a few passages from the bible to see far worse behaviour to innocense, including women and children.

--airspoon

[edit on 20-5-2010 by airspoon]

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Go waste someone else's time, you have already been proven to be a liar, no one listens to liars..

You make twenty claims out of your ass, then every time they get refuted, you make twenty new claims out of your ass.


Edit your comment hater:

There is a direct correlation as to what has caused the increase in violence, rapes, and honor killings in Europe and Islamic fundamentalism.

Quran is the Islamic law, Hadith is the tradition, your lack of knowledge in regards to Islam doesn't amaze me.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
that while he was sitting with Allah's Apostle he said, "O Allah's Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty,
[edit on 20-5-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

What is wrong with you?

It was a common practice since BEFORE Muhammad came to take war booty, people, gold, whatever.

It is not something Muhammad brought. HE FOUND IT THERE.

Why don't you post how Muhammad gradually SHATTERED the slavery - quote the countless hadiths were he ordered people to free slaves.

Quote his last sermon.

It is a progressive revelation.

He couldn't just come and say: Now, stop, as of now, you shall take no slaves, no more trade with them, free them all ...

Are you serious?

He was living among the fiercest arab tribes who had lived so for centuries - it wasn't gonna change over night.


You are really hellbent on being an opposer, arent you?
Who do you think you are opposing?

READ THE QURAN.

If something is not so clear about a verse or so, READ different translations.

Read it with an open mind, not full of hatred.

Educate yourself.

READ, in the name of your Lord who created!
Created man from Alaqa.
READ, and your Lord is the most Bountiful,
who teaches by the pen,
teaches man that which he did not know!
(Qur'an, the VERY FIRST revealed verses from God to Muhammad through the Angel Jibreel)

reply to post by skajkingdom


Don't bother replying to him, let him speak to himself, he has already been proven wrong..

He won't even admit it therefore his credibility from here on is mute//

No one will listen to his messages, except the other haters who has been programmed in such manners..

Everyone knows Muslims treat women badly it's one of the reasons for the Iraq war the whole world knows it. You can all spout it's wrong as much as you like but it doesn't change the fact that we all know it's true.

Muslims treat women like animals end of story.

How many story's do we all read about women getting acid thrown on them, being whipped, being jailed, being beaten up for walking down a street with a man.

It's always the muslims.

reply to post by winterwarlock


I have yet to meet a Muslim who treats women badly. In fact, they all hold much respect for women, unlike their Christian counter-parts. In fact, many so-called Christians beat women or molest children. Your point that Muslims treat women badly is kind of moot, only because you are getting your information from obviously biased sources.

Also, do you really think that the Iraq War was fought because they treat their women badly? Are you serious or are you just that ignorant?

--airspoon


[edit on 20-5-2010 by airspoon]

reply to post by skajkingdom


Wow, you certainly love to twist things around don't you?

Volume 3, Book 49, Number 860:
Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid Al-Juhani:

A bedouin came and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Judge between us according to Allah's Laws." His opponent got up and said, "He is right. Judge between us according to Allah's Laws." The bedouin said, "My son was a laborer working for this man, and he committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife. The people told me that my son should be stoned to death; so, in lieu of that, I paid a ransom of one hundred sheep and a slave girl to save my son. Then I asked the learned scholars who said, "Your son has to be lashed one-hundred lashes and has to be exiled for one year." The Prophet said, "No doubt I will judge between you according to Allahs Laws. The slave-girl and the sheep are to go back to you, and your son will get a hundred lashes and one year exile." He then addressed somebody, "O Unais! go to the wife of this (man) and stone her to death"] So, Unais went and stoned her to death.

www.usc.edu...

Women equal to men according to the Quran?... really?...

Women are Deficient in Intelligence
From WikiIslam

Muhammad's dislike for women caused him to declare that the majority of the inhabitants of Hell are women.[1] When asked why he said it was because they are deficient in intelligence and religion and because they are ungrateful to their husbands. Although Muslim apologists and female Muslims use a lot of creative arguments to explain away Muhammad's declarations about women, they don't stand up to scrutiny. This article will present evidence showing Muhammad's belief that all women are less intelligent than their male counterparts; as well as examine and refute the common Muslim claims about the ahadith in question.
...

www.wikiislam.com...

Lots of evidence above says differently than your claims.


BTW, I have said it before, and I will continue saying it, there are many Muslim people who do not follow these things that Muhammed did, and they also get punished by Muslim fundamentalists/extremists who follow everything Muhammed said and did to the letter.

Many moderate Muslims die at the hands of Muslim fundamentalists/extremists. This happens all over the world, but I have shown that Muhammed did horrible things, and said horrible things. He never said "do this only in these olden times and change in the future".



[edit on 20-5-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by skajkingdom
..........
- FALSE.

I am muslim. Find me ONE QUOTE / verse from qur'an where it says that a woman not wearing a scarf SHOULD BE RAPED / Treated as prostitute.
...

It may not be in the Koran but that does not mean it doesn't happen or is not practiced in the real world. It does not mean we should therefore ignore reality.

A series of violent/racist gang rapes by muslim men were perpetrated on Australian girls in Sydney a few years ago. Here's some of the now famous quotes of these muslim men to the Australian women as they were gang raping them.

the rapists had stated to a victim, during the attack, "You deserve it because you're an Australian" and "I'm going to f*** you Leb style".

and...

the attackers called her an "Aussie Pig", asked her if "Leb c*** tasted better than Aussie c***" and explained to her that she would now be raped "Leb-style".

Read More About The Heinous Hate Crimes Here

"But IRM", I hear you say. "You've shown nothing to link islamic rape gangs to women being uncovered."

Well... Here's the kicker...

One of Australia's outspoken muftis, Sheikh Taj El-Din Hamid Hilaly, came out in defense of these men and of their cowardly hate crimes. What was his defense?

Comments concerning dress and rape

In October 2006, Hilaly delivered a Ramadan sermon in Arabic in which he made statements concerning female clothing which proved highly controversial. The key part of these was:

If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats' or the uncovered meat? The uncovered meat is the problem. If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."
—Taj El-Din Hilaly[25][26]

No... I'm sorry Hilaly. People like you are the problem! Retards like you who spread this racial hatred toward western women who are dressed appropriately for their country and culture within their own country ARE THE PROBLEM!

And here's why...

Reactions and responses

Phong Nguyen, chairman of the Ethnic Communities' Council of Victoria, responded by saying, "Cultural diversity and equality between the sexes in Australia means that women are entitled to dress as they choose and should never be judged on their dress choice." He also commented, "The standard of someone's dress should never be used to justify rape, which is a criminal offence."[25]

Pru Goward, Australia's Sex Discrimination Commissioner, responded during a television interview that "It is incitement to a crime. Young Muslim men who now rape women can cite this in court, can quote this man... their leader in court.

Source

Let me repeat it in case you missed it...

Muslim men who now rape women can cite this in court, can quote this man... their leader in court.

So in reality, what kind of beliefs are being forced upon the young and impressional minds of muslim youth in Australia's mosques in regards to uncovered women? Certainly not those that are expressed in the Koran...

I take skajkingdom's word on this. But what skajkingdom and oozyism must understand is that just because it isn't in your holy book doesn't mean it isn't being practiced.


IRM

reply to post by InfaRedMan


So, a couple of men claiming to be Muslim are raping women. What about the many more rapes occuring by men claiming to be Christian? What about the Catholic Priests molesting the children, basically encouraged by the church? The point here, is that you can't blame a whole group of people based upon a few who claim to have an identifying connection, such as religion.

--airspoon

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
www.wikiislam.com...

[edit on 20-5-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

Wikiislam? WIKIISLAM????

You have got to be kidding me!



It is absolutely pointless to talk to you.

But those in whose hearts is a disease,- it will add doubt to their doubt, and they will die in a state of Unbelief.
(Qur'an, 9:125)

Originally posted by skajkingdom


Wikiislam? WIKIISLAM????

You have got to be kidding me!



It is absolutely pointless to talk to you.

Oh boy... I gave that link because it gives MANY links to the Hadith about what Muhammed said about women....

Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allahs Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allahs Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isnt it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

www.usc.edu...

There are many other excerpts in which Muhammed said these things, and more about women...

BTW, I have given, alongside some other members, several links which prove you, and the other member are the ones lying.