France Sets $185 Fine in Muslim Veil Ban

France Sets $185 Fine in Muslim Veil Ban

www.newsmaxworld.com

PARIS - The French government decided Wednesday to impose a $185 fine on women who wear a full-face Islamic veil in public, pushing ahead with a controversial ban despite signs of tension between France's Muslims and the Christian-tradition majority.


President Nicolas Sarkozy said his government was forwarding the legislation to parliament because it had a "moral responsibility" to uphold traditional European values in the face of an increasingly visible Muslim population, estimated at more than 5 million, the largest in Western Europe. He called the course chosen by his government "

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Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Burka Rage -- Female Lawyer Rips Veil off Muslim woman

This is getting quite ridiculous. I'm not French or a citizen of France, so I realize that it is really not my call but this seems like a clear assault on all Islamic people of France who choose to partake in this religious tradition. It looks like the French finally settled on the "dollar" amount at $185 US dollars.

Most people are afraid of the unknown so instead of denying ignorance, they try to apply force to others to conform to their "norm". Most people don't even realize that the head scarf is actually carried over from Jewish tradition. That's why you see the depiction of the Virgin Mary in a head scarf. Most people also do not realize the similarities of the Islamic religion with other Abrahamic religions, such as Christianity or Judaism.

While the Jews are waiting for their Messiah, the Christians believe he came in the form of Jesus. Jews don't believe that Jesus was the true Messiah. Muslims on the other hand, believe that Jesus was a prophet, but not the Messiah.

I just don't understand why anyone would care what another chooses to believe in, wear or follow, especially if those choices and/or beliefs do not affect them.

--airspoon

Edited to add: This is a very disturbing sign and I can only hope that such a dangerous precident for liberty, doesn't carry over to other western nations.

www.newsmaxworld.com
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[edit on 19-5-2010 by airspoon]

So now Christian brides will be fined right there at the altar whan they wear a wedding veil. What makes a veil Muslim anyway, pictures of Muhamed on it?

reply to post by airspoon


I agree Airspoon, can't say I am too surprised unfortunately. It's such a shame people can't practise their beliefs and wear whatever traditional garment they feel fits their faith without them being targeted in one way or another.

reply to post by airspoon


i am just woundering if the muslim countries will say anything
they Banned and boycotted den mark over a trivual picture which was done so by a paper not the goverment,

wounder what their move will be on this

thats the thing i look forward to see.

diplomatic tensions? boycott french toad legs? and other stuff?

If every Muslim woman in France were allowed to wear a veil, think about how it would affect all those CCTVs all over the place?

reply to post by illusive man


Yeah, they might make "Jihad fries" instead of french fries, LOL. On a serious note, I think the whole depiction of Muhammad was blown out of proportion by certain intelligence agencies. I have actually read some compelling evidence to suggest such a scenario. Islamic governments had to respond to deal with strong public opinion that was created and instigated by certain intelligence agencies. Unlike America, other countries try to follow or respond to strong public opinion.

--airspoon

this is a sad day indeed.
have you ever seen a moslim woman up close? theres a reason they wear those viels you know.

reply to post by Ong Bak


Are you kidding? Persian women, IMO, are some of the most beautiful women in the world, especially the blue-eyed, strawberry blonde ones but certainly not limited to them. The Arabs are not too far behind either. Have you seen the new Miss USA, who happens to be Arabic/Muslim?

--airspoon

Look on the bright side, at least this will help boost economy! Maybe even fix financial meltdown!

reply to post by airspoon



Dude, you are spot on. Iranian and Iraqi women especially are some of the more gorgeous on the planet. Call it good genes or what you will, but those are some pretty, pretty people... I digress.

I dunno, maybe it's because I'm across the pond in the states but methinks a lot of European countries are a little spooked by the massive influx of muslim immigrants combined with the recent development of people using their traditional garb to rob banks and such.

I'm not saying it's right, levying this kind of fine on religious wear, but I can appreciate the level of apprehension they must be feeling.

France did not control its immigration worth a damn and has since been nearly bred-out of their own country on top of that. They have whole regions even police officers don't venture into due to Sharia law and violence against 'intruders'.

Remember that France was having riots for so long -- internet videos and pics all over about it -- before the MSM even deigned to mention it? And then despite all the pics of the jihadic-stuff the MSM would say only "dissatisfied youths" LOL. France (and other countries) have had such serious issues related to the muslim topic, it is tragic. (You never hear that for example the group that blew up all the schoolchildren in Russia was a muslim group; or many others. The MSM keeps accidentally carefully leaving out such notes.)

This is what happens when you gradually make a majority feel not only like a minority but like a whole class in active danger. Banning veils is IMO a little retarded and clearly biased toward a specific group of citizens. But I think it represents a much bigger issue than people outside these countries realize is the situation.

RC

with nearly half of all muslims resulting from consanguinity in the middle east, it wont be long before the detrimental effects slow the population to a crawl worldwide. then we will need the face masks for our own safety!

A burka or face covering I understand and agree with 100%, that is security risk and degrading, no matter what excuse people come up with.

I think France is doing what is right for it, and its situation, just like arizona is doing what is right for it and its situation.

Those of us not living there and seeing first hand the reasons why they would want a ban like this should not be condemning them.

reply to post by airspoon


I said this before elsewhere. It's France. France's culture is different from the US, so we really have no right to impose our more multicultural views on France. We forget that by doing so, we are no better than France. The fact is that most European nations are very defendant of their culture and history, and they are not likely to surrender it.


That said this is not right. But again, we have no right to force our views on a culturally defendant nation. For the US, Culture = diversity. But France is not the same.

While I completely agree with the banning of a full face veil for obvious security reasons, does this extend to the non-face covering headwear as well? I don't mind that personally. As long as someone's face is visible and not allowing criminals to enter and rob banks in complete anonimity.
A fine is a little stupid, but I suppose that's the best method they could come up with for enforcing this law.

I'm not judging France, because I can see the similar scale of the immigration problem here in the UK. You can't walk into a some shopping centers here wearing a hooded top, yet I've seen women wearing the Bhurka. It brings to mind "one rule for us, another for them."

reply to post by invetro


So, since you are willing to trade your liberty for some perceived security, would you mind that this ban be extended, as another poster suggested, to say, brides in weddings or even snow skiing in the Alps (cold weather face mask)? Or is this just a ban on Muslims? Since we're at it, we might as well ban hats with brims because they too can be pulled down to disguise us from the cameras. What about long sleeve shirts since you can hide weapons in your sleeves? Why don't we go ahead and ban opaque bags and purses too because you can hide contraband/drugs in them. Get where I'm going?

--airspoon

reply to post by Gorman91

As I mentioned in my OP, I'm not a citizen of France so it's really not my say in what they do or don't do. With that being said, different culture or not, it doesn't mean that oppressing peoples' religious expression should be tolerated or even endorsed. I have been to France and in fact, I have spent a considerable amount of time there and last I checked, they still tout that they are a free country. Their citizens should have the right to worship in whatever way they choose, as long as that choice doesn't hurt anyone else. In a democratic free nation, people should never be oppressed by the apprehension of others. This is a very scary thing for other western countries as well because judging by some of the posters on this thread, such tyranny here in the US or even in the UK is plausible.

--airspoon


[edit on 19-5-2010 by airspoon]

I have to question the almost immediate juxtaposition of muslims and the "Christian tradition majority" within that article.
France has a long history of embracing concepts of liberty that fly directly in the face of many religions.
Is France's "Christian tradition" responsible for outlawing of the burqa?
How Christian does the average Frenchmen view themselves?
Isn't France considered to have a secular society, like a lot of Western Europe?

Originally posted by Legion2112
reply to post by airspoon

 

Dude, you are spot on. Iranian and Iraqi women especially are some of the more gorgeous on the planet.

Gosh, guys, did you ever date a Russian or Ukrainian chick? Puh-leeze. Every time I go to Moscow (not often) it's really easy on the eyes and there are no veils-shmeils.

reply to post by airspoon


You're missing my point entirely. People don't tend to wear cold weather face masks while they are off the piste. Brides don't walk into banks with their faces obscured, etc. You can easily disguise yourself as a Muslim woman by wearing this outfit if you are trying to evade recognition. This isn't about hiding things up sleeves or in handbags. It's about obscuring identifiable facial features. I am quite sure that extremists will have already noted this and taken advantage of it.

They can wear it in their own homes by all means, but I find the whole idea of wearing that garb oppresive. Sure, maybe you might say that this law itself is oppresive by nature, but I find it a neccesary preservative law for the upkeep of security. It's unfortunate that it had to come to this point, but I'm not the only one who will feel this way.