The neverending quest for the truth

I am not a truther. I am not a debunker. I am a researcher first and foremost. I came to research the truth. After weeks and weeks of reading article after article, asking people who work in the demolition industry, hearing eyewitness reports, hearing interviews reading truther lies about debunkers and debunker lies about truthers I can only come to one conclusion.

There is no truth. There is no proof. There never will be either. Neither side can prove anything.

Example:
A is person A
B is person B

A: The TRUTH is the earth is round!

B: No. The TRUTH is the earth is flat!

A: Scientific experts say the earth is round! (cite source)

B: They are being paid to lie or are fearfull of telling the truth. Also your source just managed to point out that those experts believe the round earth theory is true. You didn't prove the earth is round. No one can offer any proof that the earth is round because the earth is flat!

A: These pictures taken from space prove that the earth is round (cite source)

B: These are fake pictures produced by the government to force sheep into believing the earth is round when the truth is that the earth is flat. No one can offer any proof that the earth is round because the earth is flat! These pictures taken from earth prove that the earth is flat! (cite source)

A: These teams of professors did scientific studies and published their findings using complex physics equastions that are accepted as LAW to prove that it is POSSIBLE that the earth is round (cite source)

B: Those professors are part of the conspiracy. They are being paid to lie or their familys are being threatened by the NWO and they are lying. The report they published was fake. Even if it was real you only managed to prove those scientist believe that the round earth theory is possible (again you have failed to prove that the earth is round). No one can offer any proof that the earth is round because the earth is flat!

A: Will you at least admit that there is a CHANCE or a POSSIBILITY that the earth is round?

B: No. It is impossible that the earth is round. I will continue to maintain my viewpoint until evidence is presented that offers proof that the earth is round.


www.alaska.net...


According to many experts and studies the debunker theories could be a possible explination to what caused the collapse of the WTC towers.

According to many experts and studies some of the truther theories could be a possible explination to what caused the collapse of the WTC towers.

to determine that one theory TRUE and PROVEN is correct and the other is a LIE or FALSE is basically like saying that many experts and studies are LIES AND FALSE.

Fortunately, we have objective reality and the ability to discern truth from falsehoods.

Originally posted by jthomas
Fortunately, we have objective reality and the ability to discern truth from falsehoods.

If this was true then why do so many experts disagree on what caused the collapse of the WTC towers?

This is also a very good example of the fight over the birth certificate issue. It goes to show that no matter how obvious something is there are going to be people to ignorant to see threw all the crap.

Originally posted by xyankee
This is also a very good example of the fight over the birth certificate issue. It goes to show that no matter how obvious something is there are going to be people to ignorant to see threw all the crap.

But trying to determine what is and is not the crap is 100% impossible when dealing with a conspiracy theory.

Originally posted by iamcpc1
If this was true then why do so many experts disagree on what caused the collapse of the WTC towers?

This is an interesting statement that can be misconstrued. There are experts that disagree on the exact collapse mechanism. However, not one person that disagrees with the NIST reports have submitted their versions for peer review.

iamcpc.....if you are indeed searching for the truth, you should have no problem realizing that the CTists have nothing but 1/2 truths, hearsay, and sometimes outright lies.

Just my .02

Originally posted by iamcpc1

Originally posted by jthomas
Fortunately, we have objective reality and the ability to discern truth from falsehoods.

If this was true then why do so many experts disagree on what caused the collapse of the WTC towers?

When you say "caused" do you mean exactly which beam or section gave way first under the stress or do you mean airplane impact, explosion and fire vs. thermite, silent explosives, mini-nukes and space laser?

Because if you mean the former - then there MAY be a little polite disagreement among a handful of professionals but if you mean the latter, than you are very mistaken in think that there are "so many", if any, disagreements between relevant professionals. And "relevant" is very important here, not every Tom, Dick or Harry with a PE or Phd. can speak expertly to this matter.

reply to post by iamcpc


'Preponderance of the evidence' , I believe is the term that is used in a court of law when the truth cannot be unequivocally ascertained .

Debunkers have shown a preponderance of the evidence over and over.

Truthers have shown theories , speculation , supposition and assumptions , none of which are construed as evidence in a court of law .

Originally posted by iamcpc1

Originally posted by jthomas
Fortunately, we have objective reality and the ability to discern truth from falsehoods.

If this was true then why do so many experts disagree on what caused the collapse of the WTC towers?

"So many" as compared to what?

reply to post by iamcpc

Are you really comparing 9/11 to whether the world is round or flat? Sorry, but I find that absurd.

9/11 should be compared to other atrocities the U.S. government and CIA have committed in it's never-ending quest for empire and war.

Like installing and propping-up dictatorships throughout Central and South America, where millions of civilians were brutally tortured, raped and murdered.

Like the phony Gulf of Tonkin incident, which NSA archives PROVE was faked. LBJ is quoted as saying, "those Navy boys were shooting at a bunch of flying fish!"

Like the USS Liberty, which was brutally attacked for hours by Israel while U.S. jets were called back from engaging Israeli forces and defending the ship.

Like Operation Northwoods, the 1960s false-flag terrorist plan against Cuba that was approved by the Chairman and every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but opposed by Kennedy (who was also opposed to the Vietnam war.)

Speaking of JFK, CIA Watergate operative E. Howard Hunt recently made a death-bed confession to his son that the CIA killed Kennedy. His son also says he immediately recognized his father as one of the "three tramps" photographed on the grassy knoll and that his father on a business trip to Dallas the day JFK was assassinated. Hell, even former CIA director George H.W. Bush was at Dealey Plaza that day. Anyone who's seen the 1980's History Channel documentary "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" knows they proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Lee Harvey Oswald was nothing but a patsy, as he claimed at the time. Oliver Stone's 'JFK' is more of a documentary than dramatic narrative. The New Orleans prosecutor Jim Garrison was right all along.

Like Oklahoma City (where 2 additional military-grade explosives were found inside the Murrah Federal Building.) Like TWA 800, where hundreds of eyewitnesses saw a streak of orangish-red light rise up from the Atlantic seaboard and impact the aircraft. All the eyewitnesses were discounted and ignored. Like those "weapons of mass destruction" that were never found in Iraq (BTW, anyone know why we're still in Iraq?)

The list goes on and on. Face it, our criminal, murderous government lies about EVERYTHING. 9/11 is no different.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8ea3d540cdf8.jpg[/atsimg]


[edit on 5/21/2010 by GoldenFleece]

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
reply to post by iamcpc

 

Are you really comparing 9/11 to whether the world is round or flat? Sorry, but I find that absurd.

I compare the theories that there were no planes and that top secret energy death star jedi lightsaber weapons were used to cause the collapse of the wtc towers to the theories that the earth is flat because they are, in my opinion, equally likely to be true.

I also use it as an example to show that there is no such thing as truth and fact. I make the claim that no truth or fact have ever been presented in any judicial system in any country in the history of the entire world ever.

Is it a truth that the eath is round? No one will ever know ever. I know that i'm a sheep and I believe the government supported round earth theory but no one on the entire planet can offer one single shred of irrefutable evidence to support that theory.

There clearly is truth and evidence put forth by credible scientists. Look at the super thermite that has been documented by numerous scientists that say super thermite or nano thermite was found in the world trade center dust.

Meaning that there is no way super thermite should have been at the 9-11 site. It is also not available to "terrorists" or the public. Thermite is however readily available to the U.S. government.

[edit on 21-5-2010 by truthseeker911]

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
reply to post by iamcpc

 

Are you really comparing 9/11 to whether the world is round or flat? Sorry, but I find that absurd.

No i'm comparing
the inability to prove that the someone is lying to the inability to prove that someone is lying.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to prove the government lied when they say that planes and fire brought down the WTC towers just like it is IMPOSSIBLE to prove that someone is lying when they say the earth is flat. Go ahead. Try it. I'll send ANYONE 100 dollars via paypal if they can offer even one tiny bit of evidence that even supports the LIE that the earth is round.


I'll pay ANYONE 100 dollars if you can even present one tiny bit of evidence that supports the LIE that the earth is round. You don't even have to prove it! Just offer one tiny bit of evidence that supports it! I issued this challenge on multiple boards. NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON ON THE ENTIRE FLAT PLANET CAN OFFER ONE SPECK OF EVIDENCE THAT SUPPORTS THE LIE THAT THE EARTH IS ROUND.

NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON ON THE ENTIRE FLAT PLANET CAN OFFER ONE SPECK OF EVIDENCE THAT SUPPORTS THE LIES THAT THE GOVERNMENT TOLD US ABOUT 9/11.


NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON ON THE ENTIRE FLAT PLANET CAN OFFER ONE SPECK OF EVIDENCE THAT SUPPORTS THE LIES THAT THE TRUTHER MOVEMENT TOLD US ABOUT 9/11.

NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON ON THE ENTIRE FLAT PLANET CAN OFFER ONE SPECK OF EVIDENCE THAT SUPPORTS THE LIE THAT NEW YORK CITY WAS REAL AND EXISTED ON 9/11/2001!

100 dollars to every person who can present one speck of evidence to support any of these "LIES" that I have stated above.

I think the saness way to look at this (and perhaps, conclude what happened) is this:
We know the 'official' version is wrong.

End story.

We can sit here, surmise, debate, speculate, opinionate, scream and cry but the sad thing is, it doesn't matter anymore. It mattered then.
Just like JFK truth won't change a thing now except, infuriate the people.

It's history and sadly it WAS 'his' story!


Now, 9 years later well............the criminals fled.

It's over.
Our world will never be the same and THAT'S....the universal truth to that day!

So sad.

reply to post by One Moment


No.

We know the 'official' version is wrong.

That's far, far too vague. It is only in the depths of the most ridiculous "conspiracy theorists'" minds that the notion of the 'official story' was concocted....gave them a simple-minded target to aim at, and helps them distill all of their nuttiest notions down to bit-sized bits.

A blanket statement saying it is "wrong" isn't sufficient, and just sweeps away all the complexities that are involved.

Now, 9 years later well............the criminals fled.

"fled"?? No, at least nineteem of them are dead. Quite alikely a great deal many others as well, via the ongoing operations in Afghanistan, Pakistan over the years...though the exact connections may never be fully unravelled.

Instead of blindly and avidly following the 'conspiracy' nonsense, IF you wish to find others who are culpable, then the best place to focus would be on the Intelligence apparatus of the United States Government.

There you will find a host of blunders leading uup to the 9/11 events, follwed on by cover-ups and finger pointing as a 'cover my arse' type of activity.

The sad fact is that the warning signs of the impending attacks were there; but through ineptitude, posturing, and ego-driven turf wars within the Intelligence community appropriate action was not taken before hand.


This FALSE idea that the Bush Administration needed an event like 9/11 in order to justify going into Iraq is laughable. IT is a canard, and it is important to the "conspiracy" lovers in order to give them a raison d'etre. Without that particular windmill to tilt at, they have no other purpose in life...which is truly saddening.

However, the Bush and co-horts HAD planned to enter Iraq, and take out Hussein, well before 9/11 occured....so IF you want to say that the "criminals fled"....well, those criminals are still around, and not untouchable. 9/11 fell into their laps, in a way....and they are enjoying the fact that all this "controversy" distracts from the REAL crimes --- and those true crimes were, and always will be, the illegal and unwarranted activity since March 2003, in the Middle East, specifically Iraq.

reply to post by iamcpc


Dude , c'mon , seriously .

Take a break . Hook up with a Native American , go to the woods , set around a campfire , hit the ol' peace pipe a few times , listen to the silence , and know . Just know ., nothing else .

Of course the earth is flat . That's why there's a humongous wall built all the way around it , to keep the oceans from draining dry .

Prove me wrong .

Originally posted by truthseeker911
There clearly is truth and evidence put forth by credible scientists. Look at the super thermite that has been documented by numerous scientists that say super thermite or nano thermite was found in the world trade center dust.

You say "numerous" and "credible". I'll leave aside the latter for a moment, and ask you to provide a list of the former. If they're that "numerous" it shouldn't be too difficult to reel off, say, 20.

Originally posted by okbmd
reply to post by iamcpc

 

Dude , c'mon , seriously .

Take a break . Hook up with a Native American , go to the woods , set around a campfire , hit the ol' peace pipe a few times , listen to the silence , and know . Just know ., nothing else .

Of course the earth is flat . That's why there's a humongous wall built all the way around it , to keep the oceans from draining dry .

Prove me wrong .

I can't. If you were telling a lie I would be able to offer one shred of evidence to prove the truth. I can't. No one can.

I can say the x-men movies were a documentary and they really happened. If the government can demolish the WTC towers in the middle of New York in buildings that are occupied by people all hours of the day then covering up the fact that the earth is flat would only be a little harder!

Again my point is made that people keep saying truther LIES and debunker LIES and PROOF and TRUTH and none of those words are even REMOTELY accurate.

Originally posted by truthseeker911There clearly is truth and evidence put forth by credible scientists. Look at the super thermite that has been documented by numerous scientists that say super thermite or nano thermite was found in the world trade center dust.

Meaning that there is no way super thermite should have been at the 9-11 site. It is also not available to "terrorists" or the public. Thermite is however readily available to the U.S. government.

[edit on 21-5-2010 by truthseeker911]

Evidence put forth by credible scientists show many different things. Some say the evidence put forth by credible scientists indicate thermite or super thermite. Some say the evidence put forth by credible scientists indicates explosives. Some say the evidence put forth by credible scientists indicates airplanes and fire. Some say the evidence put forth by credible scientists indicates energy weapons.

It would be a LOT LOT LOT easier to plant some thermite residue in the WTC rubble than to go into the buildings with thousands of people in the middle of new york city with jackhammers and install thermite in 3 skyscrapers.

Also someone could easily say that the government made that dust just to have everyone talking about thermite and to stop us from finding the "TRUTH". Also someone could easily say that dust was not from the WTC.

This is yet another example about how there are no "facts" or "truth" or "lies" about the WTC attacks. There are only theories. One theory is that there was super thermite residue in the WTC dust.


[edit on 24-5-2010 by iamcpc]

[edit on 24-5-2010 by iamcpc]

Originally posted by okbmd
Truthers have shown theories , speculation , supposition and assumptions , none of which are construed as evidence in a court of law .

That's a total fib. There are three main categories of evidence:

1.) Media (audio/video)

2.) Witness testimony

3.) Physical/forensic

The truth movement has shown all three types. Yes, most are theories. But the theories are supported by the evidence.