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The Jesus Complex

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posted on May, 20 2010 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by Mykahel
 


Christ was not perfect he was a world tteacher and he was enlightened. Not a messiah, a man. A man whom read from the vedas and was adopted and read from the vedas in a monastary.

Otherwise there is no evidence that supports he was perfect, or a messiah, which by the way means anointed one. He was anointed, different. That doesn't make him the one and only son of God.




posted on May, 20 2010 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by 12.21.12
 


Its like Christians believe they have special powers!
i.e. Jesus told me that i was the right thing to do!

Jesus has never told me anything...Complete silence...



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by 12.21.12
 


Its like Christians believe they have special powers!
i.e. Jesus told me that i was the right thing to do!

Jesus has never told me anything...Complete silence...



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by Mykahel
 





You are right, far too often these wolves in sheep's clothing who are hypocrites to the worst degree are simply excused. I have no problem saying that they have already received their reward in full and will suffer a terrible fate. That's what the Bible says anyway. They must have missed that part.


Why would you wish for me to suffer? Why would you wish that upon anybody?

Bad juju man.



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 12:44 PM
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reply to post by Niccawhois
 


This is what I am getting at.

Most won't examine their own truth, because it is not complicit with their faith.



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by juveous
 


maybe, I know there are other factors involved.

GOD

Gold, Oil and Drugs

But the war from a birds eye view is all about divide and conquering pitting religious faiths up against each other.

Prove me wrong.



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
reply to post by juveous
 


maybe, I know there are other factors involved.

GOD

Gold, Oil and Drugs

But the war from a birds eye view is all about divide and conquering pitting religious faiths up against each other.

Prove me wrong.


Maybe, I know that you would have to assume the bird knows that something is staging it all, because what you said is a question of intent. - as to - religion is an excuse to go to war for a different purpose.

What ever that purpose is - religion is just a tool

If that is the case, your entire argument is invalid.

That would mean ANYONE going to war would have been duped into it by some larger hand controlling the idea. They would have no say. You can't blame them. especially those fighting for their god. If religion is a tool for war like you say - then those in the religion do not choose to go to war.



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
reply to post by Mykahel
 


Christ was not perfect he was a world tteacher and he was enlightened. Not a messiah, a man. A man whom read from the vedas and was adopted and read from the vedas in a monastary.

Otherwise there is no evidence that supports he was perfect, or a messiah, which by the way means anointed one. He was anointed, different. That doesn't make him the one and only son of God.


There is evidence to the contrary.


Mar 10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.


Since christians hold this as a prophecy fore telling of the Christ it is included.


Isa 7:15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
Isa 7:16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.


The above clearly states that there will be a time that "he will not know between good and evil". Can't be perfect if you can't Judge perfection. Can't judge something unless you have been judged and judging incurs judgment

Peace



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 08:54 PM
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Lol I read the thread name and thought it pertained to me.
As of late I have been doing the lawn and landscaping alot.



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by ImaNutter
This is the glaring hypocrisy that I am talking about... and "peggy m" (poster above me a few) is right in saying that people do not recognize when they're being total hypocrites.


Wow. Couldn't just let this one go. I'm a hypocrite how? Have you shown me to do something contrary to what I say? Am I acting as to be be different with you than I am with other people? It's hard to call somebody a hypocrite when you dont know them. It is not hard to call somebody rash and quick to judge however.



Why is it that you think Jesus died for you sins... but not theirs?


Jesus died for everyone's sins, yes. But that doesnt mean that everybody will accept the mercy that was offered. Some would rather spit in the face of God and suffer than admit they were wrong.



All christian means is follower of Christ.


Yup.




Did I miss the stipulation in the bible that humans must achieve and maintain Christ conciousness at all times?


Not sure what you mean there. Must we always have Jesus at the forefront of our minds? No. We must live in a way that reflects his teachings though, which were to love God and love people. Maybe I am misunderstanding this comment of yours though.



Aren't you violating a key Christian principle by not being without sin when you cast the first stone against your fellow Christians?


Paul reminds us in Romans that all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. We should try not to sin, yes, and I'm not trying to excuse it but people still mess up from time to time. Besides...

1 Corinthians 5:11-13 (New International Version)

11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

As Christians, we are supposed to live lives holy and pleasing to God and not even associate with those who claim to be Christians but are still doing terrible things. By doing so, we disgrace the name of Christ and cause non-believers to have the completely wrong view of what being a Christian is supposed to be about. The church has not be diligent in kicking out those who keep living in sin and look what has happened. The world thinks we are ALL corrupt with no discipline.



I though only the creator could judge us?? According to Christian canon ?


Passing authoritative judgment is not the same as rebuking a person for doing wrong. Only God has the authority to Judge. We are not only allowed to rebuke others, but are even encouraged to do so in the proper situation.

Only the creator, God, will have the final judgment, meaning that only He makes the decision as to whether or not you are going to Heaven/Hell. That doesn't mean that Christians are supposed to stand by and watch as people condemn themselves to Hell because we arent allowed to tell them they are doing something wrong. That isn't judgment. Regretfully too many people mistakenly believe that it is and what resulted was this post-modern, individualistic "You have your truth and I have mine, even though they are contradictory." People are afraid of offending people by pointing out mistakes.



How can you say that these people (the ones you denounce as "fake" Christians) have accepted Jesus Christ as their "savior" any less than you have? Did they tell this to you in secret or are you making a JUDGMENT based on your on perceptions and inferences?


Because they are not living the life. One of the best saying for a Christian preacher is this: "Preach the Gospel at all times, and if necessary, use words."

There are plenty of instances in the Bible where a person has accepted Christ or claimed to but was later sharply rebuked for something they did. These men are not living according to the instruction of Christ and therefor are not Christian by definition. even you said, "All christian means is follower of Christ." If they arent following Christ, they aren't Christian.



Do I need to keep going?


Only if you want me to keep refuting your claims, but I don't see an end to it if you are unwilling to set aside your bias against Christians in general.

[Quote]
It's hypocrisy to make such a statement that you did, for in making that statement you are violating key Christian principles (like Jesus paying for ALL of OUR sins) yourself.. thus, from an objective non Christian man I could say... doesn't make you seem very Christian?

But now here I am judging with sin so that makes me un-Christian like too doesn't it?


Nope, correcting each other and holding each other accountable is key to living a proper life. We are supposed to judge each other. We just have to remember that we aren't perfect ourselves when we do so, and if we have some glaring sin in our own lives, we should take care of it first before we try to help another or point out their folly.



Maybe this Christian faith doesn't have a litmus test for "true" Christian at all..... ?????


It does when you understand it.

Peace.

[edit on 21-5-2010 by Mykahel]



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 10:13 PM
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reply to post by 12.21.12
 


The prophecies that he fulfilled say otherwise. The numerous prophecies around his birth alone are pretty convincing really.

Not that it has any real value in a sophisticated debate, but is there any way to prove that he was not perfect?



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 10:17 PM
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reply to post by 12.21.12
 


I don't wish for you to suffer, I want you to come to a saving understanding of God's love for you! Please understand that if nothing else that I have said!

I wish it upon those fake Christians because they are leading others astray and leading them to death and destruction. They are taking life away from people and doing so knowing that they are condemning people to Hell. They know the truth yet they spit in God's face and at the same time harm His children. Jesus spoke harshly to these false teachers on numerous occasions as did his disciples. There was no mercy in the warnings that were given to these wicked and evil men.



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 10:21 PM
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reply to post by peggy m
 


Please, tell me where you want me to cite something and I will do so and do so in context.

I don't remember every verse exactly where it is off the top of my head but I am willing to look up they scripture I talk about to support what I say. I do not just make things up to boost my own ego. What do I care about how much people think I know?

I was speaking to a friend today and actually told him that every day it seems like I learn just how much more I don't know. That's why we always have to keep learning. Keep studying and searching for the truth.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 09:33 AM
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reply to post by Niccawhois
 


Then you've never read the New Testament and have absolutely no foundation for speaking against Christian beliefs since you have not gone to the source to find out what they are.

You can speak against the Christians you know based on what you have observed of their actions, but don't pretend to know what we believe if you have never read even the basics.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 03:23 AM
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Originally posted by Mykahel
reply to post by 12.21.12
 


The prophecies that he fulfilled say otherwise. The numerous prophecies around his birth alone are pretty convincing really.

Not that it has any real value in a sophisticated debate, but is there any way to prove that he was not perfect?


What prophecies did he full fill?

Where are the prophecies stating that he must die and be raised again? I've never seen one "prophecy" that had anything to do with killing the son of God and him raising himself from the dead three days later...Could you point me to that one, cause no one i've ever talked to can point me to them.

"Out of EGYPT I have called my servent Yisrael"

Did you know that Egypt means eMitzraim and that eMitzraim means Miriam and that Miriam means Mary? Did you know that Metropolis is another word for "Mary".

Did you know the Nina, Pinta and Santa MARIA followed a star to the "rock" and that later 13 Colonies minus one Benedict Arnold were the jump off points for a whole new gospel of freedom in the world called The United States of America or Usa for short."

USA is a couple. USA is the name we call the husband....J for Y/U and you have Joseph(Yusef....Like Cat Stevens Muslim name) and his wife America which is really our old Virgin......Mary (Do you understand why their is something about her...Mary that is) isn't known to him until after the child is born around 1776 at which time the "red" British (which means covenant keeper) dragon immediately tried to devour it, but then the mother and child was swept away on the wings of a great eagle into the wilderness....pioneers...."the old west" to be kept safe for a time, times and half a time.

Hey the Donner party truly had..."The last supper"....Take, eat....this is my ass cheek and it's frozen solid and remember....I'm always with you....you ate me for christ's sake....Cain Abels they became but it wasn't really a party.

USA didn't know his wife AMERICA/Mary until after the war of independence and the constitution was signed. Emancipation proclamation, starts sounding like Emanuelle as only the free can say GOD is With us.

First of all, think about this. What good is a prophecy, if someone isn't around to see it full filled so that they may be a witness to the truth of it being given and performed.

What good is a prophecy regarding a child that won't be born for another 1000-500 years. What fear has god placed in a people if he sends a prophet, but then does not do the prophets words till long after both the prophet and the hearer of the prophecy are dead? No ones faith is built up in that, no it is destroyed with such. Blind faith is not Faith, it is blind and susceptible to the same blindness.

And what good does the prophecy do, if it is done in front of those who had never heard or in front of those who believe they had heard it, only the original prophecy was in a completely different language which drastically alters the "interpretation" of it

I have faith the sun will rise tomorrow. I don't know that it will, but I have faith it will because it has everyday of my life "Faithfully". My faith comes as a product of knowing because of action on part of the sun.

If you are to "know the truth and it shall set you free", then how can anyone in truth paint up a big spiritual mental image of what you believe and reside in that as truth? It's true people are starving and sleeping on the streets. It's not true that "xyz fellowship" just added another $12,000's to their "stage" setup for winning souls to christ while bringing on board another salaried pastor and finishing the coffee stand in the lobby so all can enjoy G's Joe.

Peace



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand

What prophecies did he full fill?


Isaiah 7:14:
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
(Written between 701-681 BC and fulfilled in 5 AD by Jesus/Yeshua)

Micah 5:1-2:
1 Marshal your troops, O city of troops, for a siege is laid against us. They will strike Israel's ruler on the cheek with a rod.
2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."
(Nobody of significance ever came out of Bethlehem except Jesus. Prophecy written between 750 - 686 BC and fulfilled in 5 AD by Yeshua)

There are plenty of others if you care to research them. Some authors have even made it easy by compiling the prophesies and their fulfillment into books. Or, a cheap and quick google search would probably suffice.



Where are the prophecies stating that he must die and be raised again? I've never seen one "prophecy" that had anything to do with killing the son of God and him raising himself from the dead three days later...Could you point me to that one, cause no one i've ever talked to can point me to them.


My personal favorite that I actually had memorized for a while is Isaiah 52:13-53:12. Often titled the suffering servant, it is overlooked by many Jews because it's one of those passages that just points to Yeshua as being the Messiah so clearly that the only way to ignore Yeshua as the Messiah is to ignore this scripture altogether.

Isaiah 52:13-53:12 (New International Version)

13 See, my servant will act wisely ;
he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted.

14 Just as there were many who were appalled at him —
his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any man
and his form marred beyond human likeness—

15 so will he sprinkle many nations,
and kings will shut their mouths because of him.
For what they were not told, they will see,
and what they have not heard, they will understand.

Isaiah 53

1 Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?

2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

3 He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.
Like one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.

5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.

6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.

8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
And who can speak of his descendants?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was stricken.

9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.

11 After the suffering of his soul,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied ;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

Also, Jesus told his disciples numerous times that he would have to die, but that he would raise again. A quick read through the Gospels will show you that. Those prophesies were made and came true in front of the same people.



What good is a prophecy regarding a child that won't be born for another 1000-500 years. What fear has god placed in a people if he sends a prophet, but then does not do the prophets words till long after both the prophet and the hearer of the prophecy are dead? No ones faith is built up in that, no it is destroyed with such. Blind faith is not Faith, it is blind and susceptible to the same blindness.


I understand your point here. Many people have fallen away from faith because they have not seen the return of the Christ as was prophesied. We are still waiting, hoping and holding on to faith. The faith is not completely blind though, as we have evidence of God and the fulfilled prophesies of the past. This is an entirely different argument though.

Perhaps prophecy is not intended to build up faith as you mentioned (though it can), but instead to establish the credibility of the one who fulfills the prophecy? I would think that is the case. Besides, it builds up the faith of those who see the prophesy come true, even if those who heard it first missed out because they are dead. Somebody predicting something 300 years from now that comes true is much more impressive than the weatherman who gets the prediction wrong for tomorrow using advanced technology.



And what good does the prophecy do, if it is done in front of those who had never heard or in front of those who believe they had heard it, only the original prophecy was in a completely different language which drastically alters the "interpretation" of it


See above, but the people who saw the prophecies come true understood the language.



Peace


Same to you.


[/quot



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by letthereaderunderstand
 


Here are some of the specific prophecies that Jesus gave that were fulfilled during the lives of those who heard him make the prophecies. My focus here is his death and resurrection since that is what you were curious about.

Matthew 12:38-41 (New International Version)

38Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, "Teacher, we want to see a miraculous sign from you."

39He answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now one greater than Jonah is here.

(He even reminded them that he was going to give them this sign in Matthew 16:4. )

Matthew 16:21 (New International Version)

21From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.

(This exact scene is repeated in the book of Mark, chapter 8 verse 31-32 by a different author.)

If you want Jesus saying it plainly for the disciples to hear, the best might be in Mark 10:32-34. Quoted by Jesus

Mark 10:32-34 (New International Version)

32They were on their way up to Jerusalem, with Jesus leading the way, and the disciples were astonished, while those who followed were afraid. Again he took the Twelve aside and told them what was going to happen to him. 33"We are going up to Jerusalem," he said, "and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles, 34who will mock him and spit on him, flog him and kill him. Three days later he will rise."

I hope that all helps answer your questions.

In regards to your comment about the paid minister who gets everyone their coffee. I agree that it is a disgrace. The bible speaks plainly about those who use the faith as a means to get wealthy. It also speaks plainly about those who work for the gospel receiving their wages from the gospel. Legitimate church leaders deserve their pay. Those corrupt ones who rob God's people and disgrace God's name deserve the punishment being stored up for them.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 11:01 AM
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Yesterday I was eating lunch at the Black-eyed Pea. While waiting for my food, I went to the restroom to wash my hands. There was this boy, that looked like he was in his early teens, who was loitering around the paper towel dispenser. I thought it odd that it could possibly take someone that long to dry their hands...and I was correct.

As I went to get a paper towel, the snot-nose said "have you heard the good news". Now I knew exactly where he was about to go with this; however, I couldn't help myself...without thinking, I asked "what good news". He proceeds to say "Jeses Chr..." I cut him off and said "I'm not interested". He then continues on and says "Jesus Christ is the only way...." I cut him off again, saying "I said I'm not interested" in a more demonstrative voice. Not wanting to let me get the last word in, he then says "Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation".

So, I leave the restroom and notice that he, and his family, are sitting right next to my table. So, I went over and politely told him and his parents that it was entirely inappropriate to confront me in the restroom and make an attempt to "testify" for Jesus. The parents showed no concern for what their son had done, which I found absolutely disgusting.

That kid sure is fortunate that I am a peace loving person, because if that had been someone else, the kid may have gotten his a$$ kicked right there.

Needless to say, my day was ruined to an extend, simply because I felt like my life, liberty and pursuit of happiness had been infringed upon.

These Christian fanatics just won't give up. Don't they realize that I (all of us for that matter) know exactly where to find Jesus if we wish to hear about it.

I swear, there needs to be some law in place to protect the general public from religious harassment. Either that, or make it legal to beat the tar out of those that intrude in our peaceful day.



[edit on 24-5-2010 by Aggie Man]



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by Aggie Man
 


I'm sorry that one kid saying something to you ruined your whole day. But seriously, a law preventing people from saying what they believe? Sounds like an infringement on the freedom of speech so that you don't have to be bothered. None of your rights were infringed upon. You are just looking for a reason to complain.

I'll admit the kid was out of line and so was the family with the way they went about it, but seriously.

By your reasoning I should be able to go up and beat the snot out of every science teacher who pushes evolution as fact even though it is severely flawed theory just because I think they are wrong. Consider the can of worms you would be opening because you don't want to bother hearing somebody's opinion. I can't go beat the crap out of all the rap artists out there even though their filth is pumping out of the radio and into the heads of these innocent kids.

You could argue choice, that you didn't have a choice to listen to the kid because he kept talking. Well, I don't have a choice when I walk downtown and get offended by everyone using the Lord's name in vain or cursing up a storm on their cell phone.

Sorry life is so miserable. I hope you find something to make it better that doesn't consist of a felony.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by Mykahel
reply to post by Aggie Man
 


I'm sorry that one kid saying something to you ruined your whole day. But seriously, a law preventing people from saying what they believe? Sounds like an infringement on the freedom of speech so that you don't have to be bothered. None of your rights were infringed upon. You are just looking for a reason to complain.

I'll admit the kid was out of line and so was the family with the way they went about it, but seriously.

By your reasoning I should be able to go up and beat the snot out of every science teacher who pushes evolution as fact even though it is severely flawed theory just because I think they are wrong. Consider the can of worms you would be opening because you don't want to bother hearing somebody's opinion. I can't go beat the crap out of all the rap artists out there even though their filth is pumping out of the radio and into the heads of these innocent kids.

You could argue choice, that you didn't have a choice to listen to the kid because he kept talking. Well, I don't have a choice when I walk downtown and get offended by everyone using the Lord's name in vain or cursing up a storm on their cell phone.

Sorry life is so miserable. I hope you find something to make it better that doesn't consist of a felony.


Well, I say that your rights end at the point where mine begin. He wasn't practicing "free speech", he was engaging in conversation. A conversation, in which, I politely said I'm not interested. Continuing on in the manner he did, well,I personally believe that is infringing upon my rights.

Again, I say that I know where to find jesus if I wish to. I don't need any help in that area. And I suspect that no one else does either.

Save the preaching for church, where it belongs.

P.S. life is great for me....completely absent of jesus. There are other religions you know. What ruined my day was the restraint I had to use, that wouldn't have been used if it were an adult that conducted their religious "recruitment" in the same manner.

P.P.S. I'm sorry that you occasionally hear your lords name used in vane while walking the streets. However, the difference between that and my scenario is clear...I was being engaged directly, whereas you were passively.

When walking down the street, it does not offend me to hear any religious talk, despite my philosophical differences. However, being engaged by someone, who's intent it is to "school" me on religion is infuriating...and quite frankly, I would support legislation outlawing such practices...slippery slope or not.

[edit on 24-5-2010 by Aggie Man]



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