The Jesus Complex

reply to post by 12.21.12


Ah, I see it now, you think that our corrupt, evil, twisted government is "Christian" and so there are millions of lives being destroyed or snuffed out in the name of Jesus all the time. This is your error.

Our government and military are not advancing the Christian faith, they are advancing their global agenda. Christian values are not what is being shown on TV, but instead the media is promoting the very things that Jesus spoke against.

The only time Christians were at war with the Muslims was during the Crusades, and even then it wasn't just Christians rising against the Muslims. Islam had taken over much of the Middle East by force, slaughtering innocent people and converting people by the sword. Everyone who was forced out of their homeland finally said "enough is enough" after hundreds of years of Muslim aggression. It wasn't a war of faiths, though that is what is often stressed, but a war of retaliation and recovery of land. The Christian faith was a part of the war, but even then the leadership of the Church at that time was extremely corrupt.

Since that time, it has been the Muslim extremists attacking Christians, Jews, atheists, Hindus, and every other faith. When they are victims, it is often at the hands of one of their own fellow believers who happened to be more fundamentalist then they were.

I fail to see the millions that are being killed every day in the name of Jesus. I do see the multitudes being fed and clothed by them though.

Also, the only Christians that are bothering the non-believers about their money are the televangelists that want to suck you dry. I wouldn't consider them to be a brother in Christ in the slightest bit. They are the very wolves that Jesus warned about. They are false teachers, heretics who will suffer greater than many who have simply rejected Christ.

Like so many others, you equate the follower with the one being followed. There are people who have claimed to be Christians who have done terrible things, but that does not in any way alter the truth of the message brought by the one who was perfect, the Christ.

reply to post by Blanca Rose


" ..., and you send your payement to the government. Plain and simple, that is how it works.

When you send your money to the government ..."

Once again , show me just one iota of proof that you , or anyone else , has EVER mailed your tax returns to the Federal Government .

That is simply not true .

You , like everyone else , send your payments/monies to the Internal Revenue Service , Incorporated . A CORPORATION , NOT the U.S. Government .

reply to post by Darkice19


That's just about the craziest thing I've ever heard... no offense.

Do you have anything at all to back up that claim? I mean seriously... come on.

reply to post by ImaNutter


Yes, we do know what a true Christian is, and it is simply this...

A person who is devoted to living their life by the instruction and guidance of Jesus Christ and who accepts Him as their savior.

This is why we can claim these people aren't Christians. They aren't living by the instructions of Christ, which are to love your neighbor, and even your enemies. They are not followers of Jesus and are therefore not Christians. The title of being a Christian is not something you are just born with. It is not a race or heritage. It is not a membership to a club, or just a worldview. It is being a disciple of Jesus, a Disciple of Christ.

[edit on 20-5-2010 by Mykahel]

reply to post by 12.21.12


Yea, the goal is one world government, and the real followers of Yeshua (Jesus Christ) will be fighting against this unholy beast. And note that by fighting I mean that they will be some of the only ones that refuse to let themselves be indoctrinated and incorporated into this huge pantheon of religions.

The Royal Family is descendant of Jesus? Really? I'll need some proof for that one too...

reply to post by FearNoEvil


" No other prophet/god gave his life for his followers. "

Did you mean to say 'no other prophet/god of christianity' ?

If not , then it begs the question of what do you consider a prophet to be ?

Are/were prophets exclusive to christianity ?

reply to post by Mykahel


" The Royal Family is descendant of Jesus? Really? I'll need some proof for that one too... "

There is an excellent book titled 'Judah's Sceptre and Joseph's Birthright' by J.H.Allen .

I can't vouch that it is 100% accurate , but it makes for a spectacular read .

It traces the lineage all the way from Abraham to the Queen of England .

You may find it on Amazon . My copy was destroyed in a house fire , so I can't quote you anything from it .

True or not , it is an excellent read .

Originally posted by Mykahel
reply to post by 12.21.12

 

"Ah, I see it now, you think that our corrupt, evil, twisted government is "Christian" and so there are millions of lives being destroyed or snuffed out in the name of Jesus all the time. This is your error."

Actually, the error is on your partand his. Where you are correct is that the Christian religion is NOT the backbone of democracy nor is it the real reason for aggressions between cultures. Christianity, according to the Bible, promotes sacrifice and a blind loyalty to authority. In this aspect, government is religion and religion is government. But the same authority figure is present in every culture regardless of what religion it boasts.

"I fail to see the millions that are being killed every day in the name of Jesus. I do see the multitudes being fed and clothed by them though."

I agree. People are not being killed in the name of Jesus. It is other reasons that they are killed; however, the belief in Christianity justifies the murders, after the fact.

"Like so many others, you equate the follower with the one being followed. There are people who have claimed to be Christians who have done terrible things, but that does not in any way alter the truth of the message brought by the one who was perfect, the Christ."

Most people in our society fail to recognize hypocrisy. When it is recognized, the actions are excused away, justified, or forgotten. Historically, religion and politics worked hand in hand. They still have that unbreakable relationship. The only difference is that our current US government is a disorganized religion.

Does anyone recognize how religion is used to foster one opinion regardless of arguments that offer factual data?

People who claim that God speaks to them are now diagnosed with schizophrenia. People who claim to see signs are diagnosed as having hallucinations. People who practice the teachings of this Jesus are considered a cult.

Does anyone know their history of the Christian religion? Catholics took all these different religions and picked out what they wanted to preach by making a canon they called the bible.

Does anyone have a thorough knowledge of what is actually written in the bible versus what is promoted by religious leaders? Reading a verse in context is not the same as taking a verse and placing a meaning onto it.

Does anyone know that half of our beliefs are not contained in the bible? The idea of hell with its graphic images of demons and fire came from a poet named Dante.

Did anyone read the bible from cover to cover and realize that it was different authors covering different time periods and that most of the books did not connect? That is why there are so many disparages between one author and another. Science is uncovering the limited knowledge of the people during those time periods.

Did anyone discover the link between religion and promoting servitude? Turn the other cheek, give everything you have to give, etc. Suffer here because the religions promote a better place for you later. Governments use that to get you to fight for whatever causes they claim for the rest of the population and then take everything you have away from you because it is non Christian to thwart authority and hoard material possesions.

reply to post by peggy m


I don't know how you did it, but I dont even see the reply by 12.21.12 that you quoted. Interesting. Anyway...

You are right, far too often these wolves in sheep's clothing who are hypocrites to the worst degree are simply excused. I have no problem saying that they have already received their reward in full and will suffer a terrible fate. That's what the Bible says anyway. They must have missed that part.

reply to post by peggy m


Yes, I have looked into and studied the nature of most of your accusations there. And while I believe you are slightly off with some of them, it is the naive nature of so many Christians who don't know the answers to those accusations that make us all look like complete fools.

Actually though, the Hell full of fire and demons is based out of the picture in Revelation of the Lake of Fire and the illustration of the Rich Man and Lazarus found in the book of Luke, though that specific story is actually referring to Hades and not Hell as so many translations mistakenly print. The Dante's Inferno version of Hell is definitely fictional though and too many people base their ideas off of that and other books/movies.

The Bible being a compilation of so many authors all saying the same thing is one of its strongest features. Not sure what problems arise out of it.

The government may have used and abused Christianity to cover up its messes adn excuse their behavior, but that is not what Christianity is. The government is to blame here, not the Christians.

Somehow you failed..

what a surprise....

Reply to the reply by 12.21.12 that I dont see anywhere...

Christianity does not promote blind leadership to authority. Jesus and the disciples told the people to test those who came in preaching as if they had authority. to make sure their message was true and in line with what they had already been told. Jesus also stood up to the authorities, both religious and political, as did his disciples who ended up in jail multiple times for obeying God rather than man. This is why Christians were persecuted by the government multiple times throughout history. They were seen as rebels and trouble makers because they wouldnt worship the emperor or the gods of the country.

Christianity is above government. It is a faith that you can hold and practice without any government participation. Islam is a religion and form of government ll rolled into one. Christianity needs no particular government to function. It transcends government and culture. It has no boundaries or limitations.

The government may try to excuse their actions using faith in Jesus or Christianity as a whole, but that does not mean that God has actually excused them. If anything, they are condemning themselves.

I would even argue that they are doing exactly what Nero did in 64 AD when he burned Rome. The conditions were terrible and so Nero burned it all down and blamed the Christians for it. I can see our government using Christianity as an excuse to do the things they are doing and then when everything finally comes to light about how or government has raped us all, the Christians will be blamed even though they have been the ones calling "foul play" the whole time.

Originally posted by Mykahel
reply to post by ImaNutter

 

Yes, we do know what a true Christian is, and it is simply this...

A person who is devoted to living their life by the instruction and guidance of Jesus Christ and who accepts Him as their savior.

This is why we can claim these people aren't Christians. They aren't living by the instructions of Christ, which are to love your neighbor, and even your enemies. They are not followers of Jesus and are therefore not Christians. The title of being a Christian is not something you are just born with. It is not a race or heritage. It is not a membership to a club, or just a worldview. It is being a disciple of Jesus, a Disciple of Christ.

[edit on 20-5-2010 by Mykahel]

This is the glaring hypocrisy that I am talking about... and "peggy m" (poster above me a few) is right in saying that people do not recognize when they're being total hypocrites.

Why is it that you think Jesus died for you sins... but not theirs?

All christian means is follower of Christ.

Did I miss the stipulation in the bible that humans must achieve and maintain Christ conciousness at all times?

Aren't you violating a key Christian principle by not being without sin when you cast the first stone against your fellow Christians?

I though only the creator could judge us?? According to Christian canon ?

How can you say that these people (the ones you denounce as "fake" Christians) have accepted Jesus Christ as their "savior" any less than you have? Did they tell this to you in secret or are you making a JUDGMENT based on your on perceptions and inferences?

Do I need to keep going?

It's hypocrisy to make such a statement that you did, for in making that statement you are violating key Christian principles (like Jesus paying for ALL of OUR sins) yourself.. thus, from an objective non Christian man I could say... doesn't make you seem very Christian?

But now here I am judging with sin so that makes me un-Christian like too doesn't it?

Maybe this Christian faith doesn't have a litmus test for "true" Christian at all..... ?????

reply to post by 12.21.12


OK, so Christians die in wars, (probably the majority of service members are catholic/protestant descendents) and?

What you are creating is called the logical fallacy of questionable cause

A and B are associated on a regular basis.
Therefore A is the cause of B.

Service members join the military - to serve their country, for benefits, for experience, as a job, as tradition in family, or as a gateway to travel. Rarely have I ever heard anyone say "I joined to defend Jesus"

Now although Jesus may be a large part of their lives, It has nothing to do with whether or not the reason they were shot or blown up in Iraq or Afghanistan or any war in the past for that matter to say it is directly the cause of defending Jesus.

You are connecting the wrong dots. And although It may seem like you are correct, because the fundamentalist extremest we are fighting against is a prime example that you are correct.

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by 12.21.12
OK our court system for example.

Thats the best example I have right now.

The IRS, Religious non-profit orginizations, Alcoholics anomynous. The 700 club. All the crap on TV. Everything.

And you are saying that all these are murdering people in the name of Jesus? Can you provide specific example of individual cases when people were killed in the name of Jesus by these organisations? Who died, and when did they die, and who killed them, specifically?


[edit on 19-5-2010 by DISRAELI]

These come immediately to mind:
Fox News and Bill OReilly in particular complicit in the murder of George Tiller by Scott Roeder in May, 2009.
March 10, 1993, Michael Griffin murdered David Gunn.

Originally posted by 4nsicphd

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by 12.21.12
OK our court system for example.

Thats the best example I have right now.

The IRS, Religious non-profit orginizations, Alcoholics anomynous. The 700 club. All the crap on TV. Everything.

And you are saying that all these are murdering people in the name of Jesus? Can you provide specific example of individual cases when people were killed in the name of Jesus by these organisations? Who died, and when did they die, and who killed them, specifically?


[edit on 19-5-2010 by DISRAELI]

These come immediately to mind:
Fox News and Bill OReilly in particular complicit in the murder of George Tiller by Scott Roeder in May, 2009.
March 10, 1993, Michael Griffin murdered David Gunn.

But 12.21.12 says millions are being murdered.... You give an example of one individual acting alone influenced in his head by News outlets rhetoric.

If fox News was really advocating violence would not more people have been victim to their crimes? Would there not be a ton of prosecutors hammering for some arrests? Would the other networks not have plastered these facts all over their respective pages / stations? Hardly a relevant example or one that has been multiplied.

Originally posted by Mykahel
reply to post by peggy m

 

Yes, I have looked into and studied the nature of most of your accusations there. And while I believe you are slightly off with some of them, it is the naive nature of so many Christians who don't know the answers to those accusations that make us all look like complete fools.

See? Can't argue. That, my friend, is why the world is in such a flux. You think it an accusation when I ask a question and offer a different opinion. I could go on and raise this as an issue, but really, the topic is not the issue. Failure to communicate is the issue.

Originally posted by Mykahel
reply to post by peggy m

 

I don't know how you did it, but I dont even see the reply by 12.21.12 that you quoted. Interesting. Anyway...

I don't know how Christians do it either when they use the bible as a reference but fail to cite.

reply to post by palg1


I see tremendous amount of good in most everybody.

I don't hate jews or any other religious groups. I hate the division, between us and the fact that we kill each other for something nobody agrees upon.

I could be a jew for all I know, there was a mass exodus of Jews, who by the way have also been slaughtered by the masses over history.

Being a jew does not neccesarily mean that you subscribe to a specific religious belief. It has more to do with your ancestry than anything.