Whites 5x richer than blacks in the US

I appreciate you bringing this particular issue to the attention of the board. It's worth discussing, although the intent of citing the article is clearly to refute it, I think your approach is mostly sound.

We're hitting on a very sensitive issue; race and economics always is. There are two basic differences between whites and blacks in this country with respect to this issue. The latter group was unable to amass any wealth before the 150 years ago as they were effectively working for free and some form of racial discrimination still exists to this day in the form of wage gaps in the workplace, particularly in middle income positions (~$50,000 to $200,000). How relevant is the first point? Not very. Most whites didn't have a substantial accumulation of wealth over time until the last half a century. The second point is slightly relevant, but as some of you have pointed out, any wage gap is particularly augmented by black individuals propensity to consume (versus save). Now, we've identified the root issue!

Without any hard evidence its easy to surmise that blacks have a higher propensity to consume than other groups (with the possible exception of oil barrons from the Dubai :lol. Understanding that begins with understanding the characteristics of black culture that lead to that propensity. Blacks largely perceive that their survival is under threat, in one way or the other, and rightfully so. Considering their history of enslavement, continual discrimination, particular groups of people that would love nothing better than to see them destroyed, and their current torrid economic condition it's a logical conclusion. Additionally, being a minority in a country inevitably results in the feeling that they're "outnumbered". Of course, this survival threat manifests itself in a number of behaviors, most notably a "live for the moment" attitude. Consequently, the time horizon on which blacks (by and large) are acting is shorter relative to other groups; again rational if one considers that their survival is threatened. This short-term perspective manifests itself in unsustainable consumption which is enabled in the United States by easy credit and, thus, blacks find themselves in debt. Obviously, as one poster pointed out, the inability to save results in less net assets, especially over the time period of interest in the study.

Rather than blame people for their actions, lets attempt to understand each other and work towards an ethical solution for our country at large. They are members of this country too, by birth. Never forget that.

In 1998, 36 percent of Hispanic children and 14 percent of white, non-Hispanic children lived in single parent homes. Although 64 percent of single parent households are white, nearly 64 percent of all black children lived in single parent homes.


“America’s Children: Key National Indicator of Well-Being, 1999,” Forum on Child and Family Statistics, childstats.gov, July 9, 1999.


In 1998, 83 percent of the custodial single fathers were white.
African-American and Hispanics each comprised about 13 percent of the total.

“Two-Parent Versus Single-Father Families,” U.S. Census Bureau Public Information Office, June 6, 2000.
Income/Poverty

Although they make up just 12 percent of the population, black people represent a larger share (37 percent) of the national welfare pool.


Fatherless Children

An estimated 25 million (40 percent) children are growing up without fathers in the home.
“American Agenda,” World News Tonight with Peter Jennings, December 13, 1994.


About 13 million (50 percent) children without fathers in the home have never even been in their fathers’ homes.
“American Agenda,” World News Tonight with Peter Jennings, December 13, 1994.


Boys living in a fatherless home are two to three times more likely to be involved in crime, drop out of school, and get divorced. Girls living in a fatherless home are two to three times more likely to become pregnant teenagers and have their marriages end in divorce.
“Heading Toward a Fatherless Society,” by Barry Kliff, MSNBC News, www.msnbc.com, March 31, 1999.


Children of divorce do worse academically, are more prone to delinquency, are more vulnerable to the appeal of substance abuse, are more likely to bear a child out of wedlock, and are less equipped to enter marriage themselves.
“Real Women Stay Married,” by Susan Orr, Washington Watch, June 2000.


Almost 70 percent of young men in prison grew up without fathers in the home.
“American Agenda,” World News Tonight with Peter Jennings, January 12, 1995.

www.mercytree.org...



And this, at the top of an extremely interesting article:

Read through the megazillion words on class, income mobility, and poverty in the recent New York Times series “Class Matters” and you still won’t grasp two of the most basic truths on the subject: 1. entrenched, multigenerational poverty is largely black; and 2. it is intricately intertwined with the collapse of the nuclear family in the inner city.

By now, these facts shouldn’t be hard to grasp. Almost 70 percent of black children are born to single mothers. Those mothers are far more likely than married mothers to be poor, even after a post-welfare-reform decline in child poverty. They are also more likely to pass that poverty on to their children. Sophisticates often try to dodge the implications of this bleak reality by shrugging that single motherhood is an inescapable fact of modern life, affecting everyone from the bobo Murphy Browns to the ghetto “baby mamas.” Not so; it is a largely low-income—and disproportionately black—phenomenon. The vast majority of higher-income women wait to have their children until they are married. The truth is that we are now a two-family nation, separate and unequal—one thriving and intact, and the other struggling, broken, and far too often African-American.

city-journal.org...

reply to post by Dock9


I am not sure what yout point is, but I am white and I watched my dauther snatched from my very own eyes..

You should really consider the illligitimate # you are putting here.

NONE OF IT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH YOUR ETHNITICITY.

Shut the hell up.

Originally posted by rangersdad
reply to post by Niccawhois

 

Were the figures properly weighted? In other words, you have the same number of blacks as whites then finding out how much each made respectively?? In the US, there are more whites than blacks, I assume (hate that word) thats its the same in the UK..

Though I find 5x a rather sensationalized number I don't think the population size differences would matter.

The reason I find 5x rather difficult to swallow is that a black family that made 20k would then be average equal to a white family that made 100k and I just do not see it.

reply to post by 12.21.12




Excuse me ?


Are you in the right thread ?


I starred your earlier posts. I'm now on the verge of reporting you


Now take a breath and read my post with a rational mind


or do not comment



Because believe this: people will not post only material which pleases you


Now go ahead and very clearly specify exactly WHAT in my post prompted your disgusting dummy spit

reply to post by Dock9


My point is this.

There is not a #ing hope in the world that I will ever get to be a father to ny daughter.

The issue is not about race.

It is about power.

I am a white man, and I have basically none.

reply to post by 12.21.12


It has everything to do with ethnicity.

eth·nic·i·ty (ěth-nĭs'ĭ-tē)
1.Ethnic character, background, or affiliation.

2.An ethnic group.

What it has nothing to do with is genetic factors. It has everything to do with the cultural and sociological experiences of the group

reply to post by 12.21.12


I lost you too in this thread... not sure what your lost has to do with this topic...sorry

reply to post by 12.21.12


Ok. This is a personal issue which clearly generates much anger in you

But why not read the thread title, which is not about your personal issues but instead renders the material in my post highly relevant, as does the full article connected to the second link in my post (which details the collapse of the black family unit which in turn is reflected in the claims contained within the OP re: black poverty in comparison to whites)

reply to post by Xtrozero


It's okay.

My daughter was born on the bloodiest day of the war.

She is a jewel.

While other people in the world had profound sadness I had profound sadness and profound happiness at the very same time. Yet I was relieved of earlier (pre fatherhood duties I was stricken with another sadness that just won't go away. I no longer live for myself, I live for her.

Yet I can not even afford to eat hardly let alone buy a plane ticket for her to come and see me. I dont call her because she thinks that she is going to see me very soon.

I am a failure.

and I failed because I bought into the american dream.

reply to post by 12.21.12


I'm very sorry that your personal situation is so painful. Honestly, I am

Maybe this forum and particularly this thread, are not the best places for you to be right now ?

I've known men in situations similar to yours. One had no money at all. So he did drawings for his son and daughter. I've seen photos of him with them on the day he gave them to his children. They were thrilled to have them. Sure, the drawings weren't expensive computer games or flashy toys, but those things become broken and outdated anyway -- whereas I'll bet they still have their father's drawings even today, and those children are adults now

We only have one father and mother, although yes, there may be other important adults in our lives as children. But all you need do is read about or watch shows about children moving Heaven and Earth later in life, in the search for their biological parent/s, to know that a father is not forgotten, no matter how many years have passed

Nothing can make up for the sense of loss you live with, so there's no point trying to sugar coat it. But it's not forever, this separation. One day, it might be different and a lot happier for you

In the meantime, is there anything you can do in voluntary capacity for other children -- say as coach of a junior age soccer club or something similar ? I know a man who did this during the years he was apart from his children. He said it helped him a lot

Best wishes

Originally posted by randolrs1
Rather than blame people for their actions, lets attempt to understand each other and work toward an ethical solution for our country at large. They are members of this country too, by birth. Never forget that.

I agree with your entire post!
The problem is that MSM cannot expose any real reasoning for the economic disparity between blacks and whites like we can here at ATS.

It is far easier to create and blame an economic policy boogieman than to cite the propensity of blacks to rely on social welfare programs, reckless spending, broken family's and risk being called a bigot, furthermore creating new problems and prolonging the old ones!

My point is that we can never emerge into one nation united in pursuit of the common good until we can openly discuss problems facing minority's in a productive manner and discover "REAL" solutions to "REAL" problems without handling the situation with kid gloves so as to not offend or come off as being racist!

Originally posted by Xtrozero


The reason I find 5x rather difficult to swallow is that a black family that made 20k would then be average equal to a white family that made 100k and I just do not see it.

If you find it so hard to swallow, perhaps it's not that the study is so crazy, but perhaps you don't understand the core of it?

The study is concentrating on wealth holdings. From 1984 to 2007, if you take low, middle, or high income black and white families... and compare how much they've saved relative to their own income classes, it shows that whites have been gaining more wealth until 2007. They've been investing or saving. The Black families (same classes respectively) have not. Their wealth earnings are basically a flat line.

For example. Take a bunch of families in 1984. half are black, half white. All make around 100k a year.

What is the difference in the year 2007 from the above scenerio?

The average black family from the above pool have wealth holdings of only $5,000 while the whites have $230,000 in wealth holdings.

The study is more or less reflecting that blacks are not investing or saving... It's not saying blacks don't have for whatever reasons.

The people commenting on the study from the story are saying it is policy and discrimination that is not allowing blacks and whites of the same income to get on equal footing.

For instance, a white guy and a black guy who make 100k a year each walk into a bank to get a loan. White guy gets it, black guy doesn't.

Then they start saying how blacks don't have wealth because they help their families more than whites do, and help send their cousins to school more than whites do, and help aunts and uncles and brothers and sisters more than whites do.

On top of that, they want to bring it up in congress to make new laws for minorities specifically in regards to lending practices. For example, blacks will have capped interest rates or something absurd like that.

How do you chew it now?

reply to post by Dock9


Thanks I appreciate that.

O\I could have been at the world cup, still could be I guess. I am a fantastic goal keeper.

But I dont want to take away from this thread.

There is a clear sign of racisit war nearby, I am a white guy.

There are many others who believe I hold the scales of justice but I do not.

reply to post by RestingInPieces


Thats just not true. Many white guys can not even aquire cell phones.

You are delusional.

reply to post by 12.21.12


Chin up

Always darkest before dawn, but it will work out for you

Stay strong, do your best and keep hope

As to 'racist war' and the perils of being white --- none of us has an easy ride. And it could be said that as everyone's favourite scapegoat, whites often have it harder than the rest

Not a 'race war' really. More a 'reality check' needed for those who give themselves permission to give up because of skin colour or ethnicity or whatever. It's easy to do. So they do it. Whilst all around them, people who share the same issues refuse to drop their bundle

It would be funny to watch what would happen if the world's whites were air-lifted off the planet. Who the hell would all those VERY powerful minorities (and their ruthless backers, the Usual Suspects) turn on then ? It would be a circus and a half, wouldn't it, lol -- with all of them trying to grab the 'underdog' role at the same time ....


funny world alright Lucky that Life is a short trip or we'd go mad

retracted

[edit on 19-5-2010 by 12.21.12]

This study, if it can truly be called one, is not worth reading. I stopped reading the article after the following:


"...the highest-income African-Americans has actually fallen in recent years, dropping from a peak of $25,000 to about $18,000, while among white counterparts of similar class and income it has surged to around $240,000..."

Really?? The very highest-income African-Americans only earn about $18,000 per year? There are no African-American doctors, or lawyers, or executives, or business people, or politicians, or actors or professional athletes, etc. etc.

Perhaps they should have released this "study" on April Fools Day...

reply to post by mobiusmale


I made less than 1,000 dollars last year.

I am the lowext income proviing adult in America!

I have more debt than I will ever pay off.

Although income is not the same as wealth obviously, when we are talking about disparities, you might be interested to know that, according to Wikipedia anyway, in 2004...

en.wikipedia.org...

The median income of an American "white male" was $31,335. For a "black male" it was 22,740. For women, it was $17,648 and $18,379 respectively.

So:

1) Income-wise white males are running about 38% ahead. Would this, over a lifetime, translate into a wealth disparity of "5X". Doubtful.
2) Black women...apparently, for some reason...earn more than white women. Surprising in and of itself - but also wildly counter to the argument presented.
3) Apparently, if the study is to be believed...the median income of all black males is actually higher than the income in the highest income bracket for African Americans.

Silliness...