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Riddle me this Athiests...

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posted on May, 21 2010 @ 12:27 AM
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reply to post by novastrike81
 


Yes but even the good parts don't make up for the bad.

Think of it this way, Hitler was genocidal like the God of the Bible but you wouldn't want to be in a personal relationship with him would you? I'm sure Hitler had some good aspects but you would still define him as evil. The God of the Bible has some good aspects but he's still evil overall. That isn't because God is actually evil its just the way the authors characterized him.

Or you can think of God as a Father, if God is a Father than the Bible has a pretty good record of his abusive parenting, slaughtering wholesale whole groups of innocent people or commanding the Israelites to do the same.

The good thing is doctrine and deity are two different things, though some Christians can't seem to tell


Jesus is pretty much the only part of the Bible I like anymore. I guess there are a few nuggets of wisdom but the amount of self-contradiction, barbarism, violence, and general BS that you have to wade through to get to the nuggets of wisdom is astounding.

The way I see it reading the Bible in its entirety (well, you can skip the genealogy sections) is the fastest way to lose your faith, its one of the main reasons I lost mine.




posted on May, 21 2010 @ 12:53 AM
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reply to post by novastrike81
 


If you had done any history at all you would understand the level to which religion is involved in warfare historically. Choosing ONE WAR from the entire history of incredible blood shed is simply absurd.

Secondly it is well documented that G.W.Bush claimed that God instructed him to invade Iraq. It is a moot point - as the historical records stands as an immutable destruction of your argument.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 12:54 AM
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reply to post by Shadow Herder
 


I've heard this argument before, and I have the same response now as I did then.

Why would this omnipotent deity create a creature so terminally flawed that, when said deity laid out his Master Plan to this particular creature, nothing of worth was retained?

Shouldn't he have known that the creature he made would be unable to comprehend?
That being the case, shouldn't have have, you know, made us able to comprehend?
Failing that, maybe he could put together a simpler universal plan, since being omnipotent he's not restricted by things like logic or physics?
if even that much is impossible, why not set up like, "vibe stations" that broadcast the message subliminally to his creation?

Seriously, your argument basically paints your god as being a really stupid dog owner who doesn't understand why Muffin doesn't talk back.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 01:05 AM
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reply to post by novastrike81
 


God - your construct of God did not exist in any form what so ever until it was written down - its an undeniable fact.

There was no God - in any society any where on earth, there were innumerable gods through tribal, pagan, mythology etc - but there was no God - then it was written down after people made it up.

If God existed prior to this in secret - super duper special secret - then this is merely an assertion of yours. Thats it - an assertion. No different to my assertion that Jam is the divine creator - an assertion based on nothing.

There was no God - we created God - we decided he made everything.
There was no Jam - we created Jam - we decided Jam made everything.

Thats all there is too - there is nothing more. If you want to believe that prior to someone suddenly declaring that God had revealed himself to them - where God had never, ever existed before - that God did in fact exist but this existence has absolutely no verifiable record in either biblical or empirical terms, but instead God had remained hidden for all of eternity and mans evolution while man had worshipped LITERALLY hundreds of thousands of alternate gods - then you are in a mind boggling state of denial.

While all of humanity worshipped thousands of gods for millennium your God remained hidden and secret never, ever telling his children of their total and complete damnation for their sins in worshipping false gods - but then one day a guy declared that God had spoken only to him - and half a dozen guys believe that one guy and do nothing about it for thirty odd years - then write down this miraculous story which no-one else notices at all- nothing ZIP about this incredible dude -

And thats your evidence that man DID NOT make this up - a few guys reckon that some guy said there was a God - once - yet there had never, ever, ever, ever, been one before......but he was really there in secret.

WOW - thats some pretty special ideas you have going there.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 01:09 AM
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Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by novastrike81
 


Yes but even the good parts don't make up for the bad.

Think of it this way, Hitler was genocidal like the God of the Bible but you wouldn't want to be in a personal relationship with him would you? I'm sure Hitler had some good aspects but you would still define him as evil. The God of the Bible has some good aspects but he's still evil overall. That isn't because God is actually evil its just the way the authors characterized him.

Or you can think of God as a Father, if God is a Father than the Bible has a pretty good record of his abusive parenting, slaughtering wholesale whole groups of innocent people or commanding the Israelites to do the same.

The good thing is doctrine and deity are two different things, though some Christians can't seem to tell


Jesus is pretty much the only part of the Bible I like anymore. I guess there are a few nuggets of wisdom but the amount of self-contradiction, barbarism, violence, and general BS that you have to wade through to get to the nuggets of wisdom is astounding.

The way I see it reading the Bible in its entirety (well, you can skip the genealogy sections) is the fastest way to lose your faith, its one of the main reasons I lost mine.


Not the fact that religion and its doctrines are routinely changed to reflect the status of contemporary ethics.

Doctrine which is simply altered at the whim of a man in a frock who calls himself the Pope - and offers rules which ban the use of condoms, prevents its staff (priests) from engaging in their natural evolutionary function of sex and so induces massive pedophilia on a global scale - there is a truck load wrong with every, single facet of religion - it is PURE EVIL in every way.

The worst part about it has got to be the indoctrination of small children - profoundly disturbing stuff. If anyone - ever, ever talks to my child about religion I will sue them faster than you can say child abuse.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 01:11 AM
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reply to post by audas
 


Yeah, nothing like hearing Little Timmy talking about hell, is there? or - and this is even creepier - the notion that when you die you go to heaven. because hey, at least hell is a good reason to try to avoid getting killed by stuff.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 01:16 AM
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Originally posted by nite owl
reply to post by audas
 


Do you believe in life after death? Do you beleive in a higher power? Do you have a purpose? Do you drink water? For all of time things have changed and grown and you are part of this process and it started a long time ago. Tell me how do you get something from nothing? You dont.The something started a long time ago and that something exists everywhere. It is the building blocks of something that started long ago. The some-thing is GOD. PEACE.


No I have already resolved this argument beyond all doubt - well with as much veracity as you - everything was made by Strawberry Jam.

EVerything was created by this one mystical, un-knowable entity - Strawberry Jam.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 01:22 AM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


Freaks me out - I still remember the day I was taken off to religious indoctrination about 6 years old - I could not believe what the FCK was being said to me. I spoke to people and told them there was a crazy guy talking crazy stuff to the kids - I warned my parents and teachers that he was off his rocker. They decided right there religion clearly wasn't for me. I can not believe that grown adults fall for this sht - it simply STUNS me.

The fact that ANYONE could try and indoctrinate small children with this is the most heinous, evil crime I can imagine - simply evil. And religious followers ask WHY we object - I mean damn - here are some seriously sick individuals (mentally I mean as religion is clearly a mental condition) asking why they should not be allowed to go around mentally abusing children - WOW - WOW !!



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 01:28 AM
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reply to post by audas
 


Agreed audas.

I spent my entire childhood being drilled with fundamentalist Christianity, its taken me years and years to finally break out of it. Its so bad I was actually afraid to admit I was an atheist for the last two years (up until a few months ago), I went around labeling myself an agnostic or a Christian with differing views (whatever that means
). Its extremely difficult to break that religious programming, definitely abusive.

I know face the arduous task of breaking out the minds of my younger siblings, I figure the easiest way to do it is just to read the verses in the Bible that make no sense or are total BS.

Fastest way to lose the faith is actually reading the book, some of the stuff in there just makes me cringe.



[edit on 21-5-2010 by Titen-Sxull]



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 01:40 AM
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Originally posted by CHA0SYou proclaim those with faith have belief in something totally fictional and man-made - and that could be true, but you have no evidence of your proclamation either.

Bring me one science textbook which states God does not exist. At least Christians have a book (however laughable that may be) to back them up.
[edit on 18/5/10 by CHA0S]


This is the most ridiculous argument. Show me a science book that proves Santa Claus doesn't exist. The science book wouldn't have anything to do as their is no valuable or reliable evidence to analyse.

Please try and think about what you're typing before posting. You just make yourself look stupid.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 02:05 AM
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reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 


And the verses that make no sense or are total BS are? Please provide sources, I'm quite interested.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 02:12 AM
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Originally posted by novastrike81
reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 


And the verses that make no sense or are total BS are? Please provide sources, I'm quite interested.


Genesis 7:13

Second line.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 05:45 AM
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reply to post by stereologist
 





That's not a logical argument.

How is it not logical? What isn't logical is to say," there is no God "when you don't know that. No one can make that claim. Because they don't know.
Dawkins I don't care who they are, if they say there is no God they're
not just wrong, but they're stupid as well. Spouting off at the mouth when you are just a puny, pathetic, little man is really stupid. Especially when it comes to something you know nothing about. Atheism is"nt logical at all,
I would say it's more along the lines of cowardly.


[edit on 21-5-2010 by randyvs]



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 05:50 AM
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Originally posted by novastrike81

And the verses that make no sense or are total BS are? Please provide sources, I'm quite interested.


You could always start with things such as rainbows being a covenant or demons causing disease. Then there's always talking snakes and bushes, virgin birth and resurrections.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 05:56 AM
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Originally posted by randyvs
Atheism is"nt logical at all,
I would say it's more along the lines of cowardly.


Actually, atheism is quite logical. Agnosticism is illogical. Atheism is also quite brave, especially if you're in the southern U.S., where being a satanist carries more respect.

I can see why so many follow religious texts such as the bible. But some people aren't wired for this behavior, and this is not an indication of their cowardice or illogical thought.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 06:09 AM
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Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by stereologist
 





That's not a logical argument.

How is it not logical? What isn't logical is to say," there is no God "when you don't know that. No one can make that claim. Because they don't know.
Dawkins I don't care who they are, if they say there is no God they're
not just wrong, but they're stupid as well. Spouting off at the mouth when you are just a puny, pathetic, little man is really stupid. Especially when it comes to something you know nothing about. Atheism is"nt logical at all,
I would say it's more along the lines of cowardly.


[edit on 21-5-2010 by randyvs]


I have an invisible dragon that lives in my garage.

I have to now ask you...

do you believe me?



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 06:10 AM
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Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by stereologist
 





That's not a logical argument.

How is it not logical? What isn't logical is to say," there is no God "when you don't know that. No one can make that claim. Because they don't know.
Dawkins I don't care who they are,


It is no more logical than to say there is a God as that too is claiming full knowledge of the Universe. There is no more evidence for your deity of choice than there is for Osiris.

Please don't forget to give thanks to Ra for bringing back the sun today!



if they say there is no God they're
not just wrong, but they're ****** as well. Spouting off at the mouth when you are just a ****, ********, little man is really ******. Especially when it comes to something you know nothing about. Atheism is"nt logical at all,
I would say it's more along the lines of ********.


Your deity of choice has spoken to me. He sayeth to me "Sirnex, thou must send an alert to the mods as a person from my flock, randyvs, has lost his way and he speaks with the tongue of Satan and not the tongue of the Lord."

In the future, please refrain from harsh unnecessary insults so we can avoid your deity of choice from speaking through me again. Nearly scared the crap out of me!



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 06:14 AM
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ok no sciencebook here just philosophy;

Twilight of the Idols, or How to Philosophize with a Hammer (Götzendammerung, oder: Wie man mit dem Hammer philosophirt, 1889)

According to Nietzsche, we are not responsible for the fact that we exist. Nietzsche argues that we are not created by any divine will, nor for any divine purpose. If we were created by God, then we would be accountable to God for the fact that we exist. If we were accountable to God, then God would be an objection or contradiction to our existence. Thus, Nietzsche argues that God does not exist. If we deny God, we deny accountability. By denying that we are accountable to God, we redeem ourselves



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 06:28 AM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


Or perhaps you just don't recognise. Atheists don't really have a way of explaining existence do they? No way to ridicule, or mock, or insult them is there? Yet they're always the first to insult, mock, ridicule those that at least have the guts to believe in something that does explain existence.
I think that is cowardly.


[edit on 21-5-2010 by randyvs]



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 06:38 AM
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Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


Or perhaps you just don't recognise. Atheists don't really have a way of explaining existence do they? No way to ridicule, or mock, or insult them is there? Yet they're always the first to insult, mock, ridicule those that at least have the guts to believe in something that does explain existence.
I think that is cowardly.


[edit on 21-5-2010 by randyvs]


I personally think it's more brave to say I don't know when one doesn't truly know.

Atheists have no reason to subscribe to your deity of choice anymore than they have reason to thank Ra every morning. You and I both don't thank Ra every morning for the same reasons, we both consider Ra to be mythology and not real. Atheists go a step further and denounce your deity of choice as mythological in origin as well.

The path to knowledge is not born of arrogance and pretentious bigotry of saying one has already attained knowledge. No, instead the path to knowledge is one of humility and a desire to seek out that knowledge. To understand that the path is a long and difficult path and that the end may never be reached.-Me.

If you want to consider that cowardly, all the more power to you.

[edit on 21-5-2010 by sirnex]



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