Atheism – The complete disregard of scientific fact

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posted on May, 18 2010 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by Conclusion
 


I see you're trying to move onto another subject, while avoiding the whole thing about God being created. I'm only interested in debating with people who interested in debating. I don't play along with avoidance games.

Besides, I have an appointment and must leave now. Have a good day.




posted on May, 18 2010 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by webpirate
 


See I believe it can be proven rationally. In order for anything to exist it has to be made first. That is very rational. We see creation everyday, yet people deny a creator. lol. It just seems to simple not to be able to see.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 12:20 PM
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I think the main problem with God, is the word "god" itself. It has so many differing meanings that now it is meaningless. I think any productive debate about "god" first needs to start off with a definition.

So to the creationist - "define god"

To the Atheist - define "no god"

To the Agnostic - define what it is your not sure about.

To me god is the void, which is no thing, in other words, it breaks down when trying to attach any words to it. It is not something, and it is not nothing. There was a monk who in middle ages wrote a treatise only using what "god" wasn't. The whole book was just a series of negative statements on "god" That is kind of where I stand, which is very mystical and not something your average guy out there can relate to. It is only received by being silent.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 12:20 PM
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reply to post by Utopian
 


Yeah... no offense intended? Your title offended me, The thing is that this is OUR belief, theres no science where god in concerned because there is no evidence of it...yet - Yes you can say broad statements like "there is evidence all around you" but that simply just doesn't cut the mustard.

Atheist are far more scientific than any religion, as soon as we're presented some data that can be studied and confirm your poxy theories then we will take some interest.

Until then, we don't need people like you giving Atheism a bad name



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by Conclusion
 


Did I not just say that?
I said I believe there probably is a creator based on rationality.

I also said most people are too stupid to discuss this rationally.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by Conclusion
 


I see you're trying to move onto another subject, while avoiding the whole thing about God being created. I'm only interested in debating with people who interested in debating. I don't play along with avoidance games.

Besides, I have an appointment and must leave now. Have a good day.


No I am not. I just said I did not say that. He is Alpha and Omega. That is all I know. I have heard it called the Beginning and the End. I am not sure if it even deals with time as we know it. But I do believe that if scientists worked on it we may become more enlightened as to the how it is possible. As to why? Only he knows.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 12:23 PM
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The laws of the universe were not established until the energies within it took form to make these laws true.


Are you sure about that one?



Personally, and this is just for me, I don't find the prospect of a universe as you describe to be very interesting.

I feel that in such a world, there really is no purpose. In reality, the only purpose one would have is the purpose they themselves create.


What's so bad about that? Most people do this anyway. This is the essence of existential nihilism and many of those types are perfectly happy and ethical people.


Because in the same sense, I can vouch to establish my own slice of reason.
As long as I ain't hurting anyone, what's so bad about that?


Absolutely nothing at all! We all need our inner peace. We all arrive at different places within for different reasons. Being a happy and ethical person is what matters. Time will answer our tough questions and until then I suppose we'll have to rabble and rouse. Thanks for the great conversations today.


[edit on 18-5-2010 by traditionaldrummer]



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 12:23 PM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


LOL. So things exist doesn't cut the mustard as to answer the question? Yeah sometimes answers are that simple.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by webpirate
 


ok, so maybe I am more agnostic than Atheist but what grounds of evidence do you go on, to create a bible with rules and regulations and full of contradictory statements showing this "god" to be personified full of rage, anger, dissapointment in what he has created.

God is just what we can't explain in my opinion, if you can't explain it or can't prove it, what the "HELL" is the point? There is no point, so continue dribbling Christians and Muslims, keep dribbling over words and illogical ideas and concepts.

Don't come back with the whole "atheists have no morals" because we do, so please wise up



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by BlankSlate
reply to post by Conclusion
 


What does the existance of the mind have to do with the existance God?

[edit on 18-5-2010 by BlankSlate]


There is no scientific evidence that the mind exists. Does that mean it doesn't exist?



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 12:27 PM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


I agree with you that you are probably more agnostic than atheist, but check your posts. You are apparently replying to the wrong person or looked at me and thought I was replying to something you said when I have not directly replied to you this entire discussion.

[edit on 18-5-2010 by webpirate]



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 12:27 PM
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reply to post by Conclusion
 


Yes, cause and effect are a basic staple of science. What I don't understand, and what wasn't answered in the OP video, is how this leads to an inteligent being worthy of the title diety.

The question "what else could it be?" just isn't scientific proof.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by Conclusion
No Webpirate said our belief gets in the way of facts. So I asked him to show me the facts. For him to say that would mean he knows the facts that prove a creator does not exist. I have already posted my proof. You just don't believe it.


That's flawed logic and an assumption. There is no proof either way of the existence or non-existence of gods. Those who claim there is one must provide evidence supporting their claim.

Atheism is a certitude formed by the lack of evidence. There is simply no reason to believe in things that are unsupported by evidence. There is also no reason or motivation to prove there is no gods: unsupported claims of the exisence of gods have no value.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 12:30 PM
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reply to post by Conclusion
 



science is in the mind, so is maths, it doesn't mean it doesn't have any use. Maths is just idealogies of the mind.

What religion is, is incohesive lies about some divine being, have you ever thought about it being a force? that science hasn't understood yet? Do you really think he doesn't condone homosexuality or freedom that so many religions are happy to take away from people?

What i'm trying to say is, an inability to prove something does NOT exist, has never been enough reason to believe in it. I could say invisible monkeys live next to you, but are invisible and undetectable, they judge you, watch you every moment of the day.....would you believe that? Should i moan when people don't believe in it? NO



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by BlankSlate
reply to post by Conclusion
 


Yes, cause and effect are a basic staple of science. What I don't understand, and what wasn't answered in the OP video, is how this leads to an inteligent being worthy of the title diety.

The question "what else could it be?" just isn't scientific proof.


So yes you do not think the mind exists?



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 12:35 PM
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I almost skipped past this thread and I may be wishing I had but I do have my pennyworth of atheist info to add.

My father was agnostic, my mother, an almost devote Catholic. She got pregnant out of wedlock to a non-Catholic. The Catholic priest was later proved to be a pedaphile and the congregation sinned Monday through Saturday but confessed and repented on Sunday.

My father merely asked the questions that needed asked and I became a disbeliever in deities. Show me and I will change my mind but don't piss in the wind and tell me to have faith that it is rain from god.

In the beginning the deities talked to humans and that was okay. Now it is not okay and the people claiming to hear god speak are considered schizophrenic. I don't see any religion going out trying to save these delusional people.

The bible is taught to be written by god but it is a known fact that the bible is a canon of several authors of different one god religions and many of the other one god religions were not included in the canon because the Catholics at that time thought those books didn't fit in with what they wanted to teach.

Now we have the "word of god" in direct opposition to what is being promoted. "Sodomy" and "making graven images" are somewhere at the top. "Judge how you wish to be judged" is my pet religious peeve. But at the top of my disbelief list is "We are born sinners" and "the last to ask forgiveneness is the first to be forgiven" and asking for proof is a sin against god.

I am not against all religions. I lean toward the one that promotes the belief that if you kill nature then you kill yourself. This one appears to have some facts to support it. Then again, it doesn't appear to have some deity speaking to people in authority. It's pretty much reasonable thinking that anyone can do.

For instance, I saw two male dogs the other day trying to hump each other. I witnessed a male cat eating his babies. I witnessed a tornado bring down a whole community. I turned on the news and saw reports of humans doing the same sort of things. An openly gay priest is now accepted. A devote christian father proudly sends his last surviving child to get killed in the war. A terrorist group blows up a building and kills hundreds. It's all the same whether you believe a diety is responsible or I believe it is just a part of survival of the fittest.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 12:37 PM
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Since I am being misquoted by certain people taking snippets of what I have said in reply to others out of context, I will re-post my beliefs on this matter from my first post in this thread. I will not discuss this further in this thread for reasons I have already stated.

I will take intelligent discussion in a U2U. Unintelligent comments that appear in my U2U will result in being ignored.
Here is my original post:


You can not prove or disprove atheism anymore than you can prove or disprove any god.

There is a distinction though that I personally feel needs to be made. There are many people here on ATS and elsewhere for that matter who believe the Earth was creationist in it's making.

Evolution with intentional creationist interventions thrown in along the way. Even a lot of so called religious people might agree here. However, what I am referring to is not some all knowing all powerful being who created it, but visitors way more advanced from another planet. They created life here on Earth and helped it along.

The Ancient Aliens series going on now sort of goes along with this theory. It could well also go along with Jewish, Christian and Muslim theories that man was created in gods image. Just that god here = space alien.

The bigger question is who created them. Who started this whole mess? We shouldn't group the universes creation along with Mans creation.

With that being said though, and to get back on topic, NO ONE can prove or disprove any god or ism at all for that matter out there. Atheist who are so dead set in their ways irritate me just as much as staunch Southern Baptists.

I personally have my theories..as I have outlined above, but it CAN NOT be proven at all by us at this time. There might be some out there who know the truth, and this might be why there is no disclosure.

Who created the creators? I have a very high IQ, but that question is where my brain shuts down.

Nothing can be proven about anything along these lines. And anyone who says it can or more appropriately probably that it HAS is an idiot unless they have access to knowledge that the masses do not have access to. Some people need something to believe in. I have to agree with John Lennon here though. "I just believe in me."

Wanting to believe or have dopamine and norepinepherine releases in the brain ie being moved by the spirit do NOT constitute any proof.


Edit for leaving out the first letter of the post from my cut and paste.


[edit on 18-5-2010 by webpirate]



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by Conclusion
 



science is in the mind, so is maths, it doesn't mean it doesn't have any use. Maths is just idealogies of the mind.

What religion is, is incohesive lies about some divine being, have you ever thought about it being a force? that science hasn't understood yet? Do you really think he doesn't condone homosexuality or freedom that so many religions are happy to take away from people?

What i'm trying to say is, an inability to prove something does NOT exist, has never been enough reason to believe in it. I could say invisible monkeys live next to you, but are invisible and undetectable, they judge you, watch you every moment of the day.....would you believe that? Should i moan when people don't believe in it? NO


Yes I know the creator is a force that science does not understand yet. There are consequences for any actions we take. Whether they are good or bad. We know this by nature. If we put our hands over a fire it will get burned. I believe the same thing applies to our moral nature also.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by peggy m
 


Very nicely said peggy m.

Now, as far as this thread goes...read my signature line.

Wait, i am home....

[edit on 18-5-2010 by webpirate]



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 12:50 PM
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reply to post by Utopian
 



If you can't be bothered to listen to the whole interview, please at least listen to the the final 15 minutes as this describes the mathematical impossibility of our reality being created by chance or evolution alone.


Possibility based on what?

One universe, one planet, one example of life developing?

Somehow this can be used to determine the possibility of how likely any of that would happen? BS.

There is a 1:1 possibility of it happening, and here we are to prove that mathematical equation.






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