Tarballs reported at Key West beach; surveys continue Tuesday

Im still waiting for our "Alien Saviours" to come down and fix thisleak.

IF YOU ARE OUT THERE E.T.... WE NEED YOUR HELP!

Remember this quote? "Its not that bad".

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Now it is nice that you get a lot of exercise but the reality of it is that there is technology which our wonderful government and the oil companies have been hiding and suppressing that will allow a breadbox sized device to fit under the hood of a car and power it or a house or any number of other things at ZERO cost virtually forever.

This event is of a magnitude that they will have to bring out this technology to save the world and I hope when people realize the greedy ba*%#ds have been sitting on it for probably decades while we destroyed the environment (I said environment not climate) with fossil fuels that all those responsible are brought to the most horrible end possible.

When I saw this Horrible Tragic event it reminded me of the Seventh Seal with the actress Demi Moore. If any of you have seen this there is a part at the beginning when the fish wash ashore and that guy is walking along the beach.

It is possible that a seal has been broken.

reply to post by GoldenFleece


Yup, I'm not surprised.

I guess they are also worried it's going to come up the golf coast through the jet stream.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2d0633f5717f.jpg[/atsimg]

~Keeper

[edit on 5/18/2010 by tothetenthpower]

reply to post by expat2368


But we are all equally responsible for using the fossil fuels.

Just like (I know you are an expatriate so filter out what doesn't apply since you are out of country) we all shop at Wal-Mart and contribute to the exportation of manufacturing jobs.

They can't sell us what we won't buy.

I know that's painful. When I saw some of the things that the oil companies were doing in places like Africa, in funding assissinations, of political dissidents who objected to the environmental impact, I honestly said, I can't support this with my money.

I will walk, I will ride a bike, but I won't pay these bastards to do this.

Most people aren't really going to agree with me, because we all love the saying "The Buck Stops Here"...

But we often forget just where the dollar actually starts, that stops there!

It starts with us, and as a result, the best place to end something is with us, through our own purchasing power.

We have more power than they do, for that very simple reason, we just refuse to accept that we do.

I been listening to the propaganda that the oil was from, "evaporating to disappearing", I am not expert in ecology, but I don't need to be an exper or a genius to understand that the oil is only going to the coast and will end up into the Atlantic affecting most of the coast of US eventually.

This oil, tar is not going to "evaporate" anytime soon. . . is just going to disperse and I mean all over.

For those that say this is a big disaster of proportions we all have not idea how bad really is and about to be.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

But we often forget just where the dollar actually starts, that stops there!

It starts with us, and as a result, the best place to end something is with us, through our own purchasing power.

We have more power than they do, for that very simple reason, we just refuse to accept that we do.

We need to keep hammering away at this message until people get it. The next "revolution" may not need be a military one considering how much power/force there is in the almighty dollar.

All we have to do is use it, or NOT use it, in the right way.

reply to post by wayno


Personal responsibility is a hard message to preach sadly wayno.

People just don't want to accept how much individual power they have.

They are all for doing something with the assurance that every one else will do it too, and some one is going to lead them in that effort.

Yet they fail to realize, that real responsibility begins with leading yourself.

To refrain from imitation is the best revenge.
Marcus Aurelius

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


It's funny how you blame the consumers for this mess when it's them who are refused any different options in terms of travel. A bike? Yeah ok. Let's all just ride our bikes to get somewhere 500-1000 KM away.

Civilization is judged by its means of transportation. If you feel the PEOPLE are to blame for all this, then you're just an arrogant and self-serving as the rest. Your FOOD and WATER cannot be made without oil. So stop acting like you're all high and mighty just because you don't/can't drive.

reply to post by metro


Yeah because humans only managed to span the entire globe with out cars or fossils fuels for 10,000 years.

But hey, you be as helpless as you want to be.

Be as dependent and enslaved to a corrupt system, and corporations as you want to be.

But wait until everyone else stops dropping bombs on one another, and paying to drop bombs on one another before you call it civilized!

Thanks.

Welcome to the New World Order where thoughts of self reliance are criminal!

Edit to add: You can be a product of your environment or you can make your environment a product of you.

I choose to make my environment a product of me, and that includes mastering the logistics of my own environment to make it work for me.



[edit on 18/5/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by metro
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

It's funny how you blame the consumers for this mess when it's them who are refused any different options in terms of travel. A bike? Yeah ok. Let's all just ride our bikes to get somewhere 500-1000 KM away.

Civilization is judged by its means of transportation. If you feel the PEOPLE are to blame for all this, then you're just an arrogant and self-serving as the rest. Your FOOD and WATER cannot be made without oil. So stop acting like you're all high and mighty just because you don't/can't drive.

I don't think PP is being high and mighty. You are correct that we cannot reverse our lifestyle on a dime, and that our civilization is judged by its means of transportation. What used to take months now takes hours!

You are wrong in one respect. My Food and Water can be made without OIL. I have a well, and it has a manual back up pump. It is currently hooked to the electrical grid, so I am guilty, but I am in the process of hooking it to Solar Power. I have already converted my pool heater to Solar, and the Pool Pump, Garage Electric, and Well Pump are all next.

People are to blame, because we don't speak with our Dollars, and we don't do our due diligence when voting. I am guilty as well. I usually go into a voting booth with one or two important races on my mind, and I guess at the rest! I should know everything that each of those people stand for before I vote, but I am too lazy to research it ahead of time.

A few years ago gas was just over $1 per gallon. It went up to 2 and 3 and 4 and even 5 and people panicked! We made a statement with our money, and political and economic backlash ensued. Then gas went down to 2 or 3 again and we were all happy? Really? We totally forgot about the $1 average, we were just happy to see it drop from 5 to 3? We are stupid!

When all of that gas price fiasco happened, I told everyone that I knew that it would take several years for the real impact to be felt. People switched to using Credit Cards and there was no immediate penalty for our expenses quadrupling overnight. Within a year or two Credit Card balances were high, defaults were high, mortgages were behind, and in 2008 we know what happened. The secondary effect was Florida voting to allow drilling off the Coasts, and Obama and McCain vowing to "Drill Now" while we "Invest in a Renewable Future."

All the corporations had to do was raise gas prices for a few months and they got their way! They changed politics, commerce, and the environment because we didn't want to park our cars for one summer!

Originally posted by wayno
OK folks. Anyone feeling just a bit guilty over driving a gas guzzler yet, or any fossil fueled vehicle for that matter?

WE are responsible for this mess because we didn't demand a cleaner source to fuel our transportation needs. If we weren't buying the gas/petrol they wouldn't be drilling for the oil.

Those "bad" oil companies are only doing their thing because "we the public" buy their dirty wares.

Shame on us.

I agree that this is a terrible scene in the gulf and will probably have
lasting results from it. Sealife will disappear and the beaches will be
destroyed, etc, etc, etc. I can't fathom this happening, but it is. It makes
me sick thinking about it.

You referred to gas guzzling vehicles. I agree with you. We are on the
same page with that. However, do you not realize that close to 80% of
EVERYTHING we use in life is made from petroleum products? Do you
think that we are going to be able to produce these things from solar
energy, wind generators, batteries, and so on? Name me one thing that
is made from crude oil that can be made by an alternative method. As
usual in this country, they will spend the next forty years putting together
another "committee" to study the situation and not do anything about it.

Our gas guzzling vehicles aren't going to disappear very soon, or the
millions of products made from oil.

reply to post by endtimer

Name me one thing that
is made from crude oil that can be made by an alternative method.

Good Point, and even more reason to stop burning up a valuable resource!

However, we didn't used to need so much plastic. We used Glass, and everyone recycled it! We used to reuse all of our eating utensils and plates and pass them down from generation to generation. We used to build furniture that lasted for generations and was made from wood! There is a book "The Millionaire Next Door" that speaks to these very things as the difference between the upper class and lower class. The Upper Class still buys quality shoes and quality furniture and quality homes and vehicles and they CONSERVE what they have and they build wealth. The Lower class CONSUMES everything in mass. They buy the cheapest plastic merchandise without realizing that they are spending more money over time. For some it isn't a choice, but rather a necessity.

We should conserve our Crude for those things that cannot be made from anything else, but we don't need to use Crude just because it is cheap and available for now? I saw a History Channel special about the industrialization of America and the world after crude oil was discovered. It was cheaper than water at the time!!! And, in many cases it still is!!

Gas should be $10 per gallon. It is worth it. Think what we get out of 1 gallon of Gas. It should be conserved, and it should be expensive, and it should be less of a luxury and more of a necessity.

We all need to get away from the Consumer Lifestyle and go back, just a little bit, to a simpler way of life. We don't need to work 60 hours per week, and commute 100 miles a day, and cool our homes to 65 degrees and heat our water to 130 degrees. We can be just as comfortable with a whole lot less!

Start here:
www.thestoryofstuff.com...

methane is the real danger, see the following thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...

ok, did some quick math, feel free to correct it, if needed
sticking to a per day set of calculations, so 2 months from now, the math is still easy

according to this site

www.eppo.go.th...

172.3 barrels of out equals 1 million standard cubic feet of natural gas
(methane is the dominate gas in nat gas)

at 210,000 barrels per day (BP/CG figure), and if we assume that 1/3 of the flow is gas
(low estimate based upon the video, I think its closer to 2/3) then we get:

406,000,000 cu ft of gas is being released each day (740 foot square cube)

at 168:1 (gas to hydrate conversion) that could be up to 2,416,667cu ft of hydrates suspended per day

now when you consider LEL (lower explosive limit) is 5% in air & the thing is just short of 30 days running, the explosion, flaming ocean, infreno-cane becomes very plausable

working on the force on the sea floor calcs due to evacuation of the chamber, with no backflow of water next

dr

edit for math corrections

[edit on 18-5-2010 by dr dodge]

reply to post by getreadyalready

A few years ago gas was just over $1 per gallon. It went up to 2 and 3 and 4 and even 5 and people panicked! We made a statement with our money, and political and economic backlash ensued. Then gas went down to 2 or 3 again and we were all happy? Really? We totally forgot about the $1 average, we were just happy to see it drop from 5 to 3? We are stupid!

Gasoline really is a tax. Look at the Billions of dollars of profit oil companies make each quarter.

If you step back and look at what they did, they first exposed us to cheap gas for pennies a gallon. It was 17 cents a gallon in 1970.

They exposed us to cheap cars to use the gas. The average car was 2,200.00 in 1970.

Then they encouraged us to flee the urban downtowns, for suburban sprawl to take advantage of our own cheap personal transportation, and got us hooked on a commuter lifestyle.

Then once enslaved...BOOM.

They raise the price of gas, higher and higher, leaving us with less and less of our wages, knowing we have to pay it to commute the distances to where we earn our wages.

They raise the price of cars, knowing we have to have one of those too, to commute to where our wages are.

So if you are lower middle class or poor chances are 40% of your wages goes to your car payment, insurance, registration, license and gasoline.

You might as well have a crack coc aine habit going!

When you take that 40% and couple it with another 33% in taxes and insurances like Social Security and Medicare, and Health Insurance, Pay Roll Taxes, Sales Taxes, now 75% of your income is gone, and you haven't even bought your kids a tootsie pop yet.

Now pay your rent and your mortgage, and enjoy those eggs for supper!

It's called free range slavery, where you pay top dollar to your Masters for the privelege to range!

Wake up already people. This is not a joke.

reply to post by getreadyalready


On the subject of living simpler and passing down China and Silverware. These things also are "self-disinfecting." Silverware does not harbor bacteria or viruses. Wood cutting boards also do not harbor as much bacteria as plastic. There is no need for all of our "anti-bacterial" merchandise if we use quality utensils in the first place.

Anti-bacterials kill off all harmless bacteria and open up the area for all the competing harmful ones. Similar to killing all the grass and weeds in your yard, the weeds come back first! Anti-bacterials make us more sick and create more corporate income through pharma and healthcare.

If we lived simpler, conserved more, bought higher quality, longer lasting merchandise, maintained our own health, and minded our dollars and votes, imagine how the would would change!!

Edit to add:
We could also spend more time with our families, raise better kids, and probably lower crime in the community!

[edit on 18-5-2010 by getreadyalready]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Hey PT, great posts as always.

Are you saying you don't own a car and bike or walk everywhere?

If so, I'm truly impressed. Not easy to do in this day and age.

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Hey PT, great posts as always.

Are you saying you don't own a car and bike or walk everywhere?

If so, I'm truly impressed. Not easy to do in this day and age.

This is true. PT does not own a car. I watched a documentary on Shell Oil about a year and a half ago someone posted here on ATS, and how Shell Oil had killed an African Tribal populist leader who stood poised to gain election to the highest office in his nation, who wanted to kick the oil company out of the country, for poluting the land and the water table with it's drilling.

That got me to thinking about what goes on in Iraq and other places, and all the killing that takes place for oil.

I realized to me what is the truth, that buying gas, would mean, I have that blood on my hands too.

So I sold my car. I went out and bought a bicycle.

I live in Miami Beach, and it is incredibly flat. So riding a bike is relatively easy. It's temperate all year round, so it's relatively pleasant. I work at home so my commute to work is about the distance from my bed to my computer. (Not very far)

The closest store is 8 blocks away, and my furthest client is 16 miles a way. It takes me about one hour and 15 minutes on my bike to travel that 16 miles each way.

My lifestyle, and my life itself, fits in perfectly to riding a bike. A dense urban area, relatively short distances to travel.

So in reality, people who don't want to drive, can in fact, reorder their environment to do this if they want. Find a closer job to home, or work from home. Find a home that is relatively close to the shops and restaurants and places you frequent.

There are some huge advantages.

1. Exercise and fresh air.
2. No gasoline
3. No insurance
4. No parking fees (I can usually lock my bike up within feet of the front door of any place I am going too)
5. No speeding tickets, or code violations.
6. No car payments
7. No lisence to maintain
8. No registration required
9. Maintenance is a fraction of what a car is

Because I live in an urban and congested area, I often can get places more quickly on my bike than I could driving, taking a taxi or a bus. I don't have to wait at red lights, or stop for accidents.

I actually go out more to the most popular places, because I don't have to hassle with finding parking, and adding the cost of parking, which sometimes can take as long as a half an hour to find a space to park in some place like South Beach, and cost as much as 20.00 for a few hours parking.

Now of course this is not going to work for everyone, but lets be honest everyone, how many trips do you make in your car, that you could have actually walked or ridden a bike to and gotten some fresh air and exercise.

I HAVE A FAMILY is a common refrain.

Chances are your kids have bikes and you don't...NEXT OBJECTION PLEASE...I see lots of families riding their bikes together.

So even if you have to commute to work 30 miles each way every day in your car...do you really have to commute in your car to the store that's less than a mile away?

We are in fact enslaved to our automobiles, and the big corporations all take advantage of that by extracting heavy prices and fees, from the manufacturers who make them, to the oil companies that fuel them, to the repair companies that fix them, to the insurance companies that insure them, the the State that licesne and registers and regulates their use through laws, that include fines for failure to use them in the prescribed way or maintain them in the prescribed way.

I can honestly say, getting rid of my car was one of the smartest things I have ever done, and something I wish I had done years before.

If I have to make a longer trip I still have options of trains and planes, busses or renting a car.

Believe me when I say, that the fish choking on oil right now, and the birds who can't fly who are soaked with oil right now, really aren't all that impressed with our modern 'civilization'

I wonder why?

Thanks for asking my friend.