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The Book Of Psalms A Book Of Spells?

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posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 08:02 PM
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Okay all you Pagans, Satanists, Spiritualists and other magik users, here's something we can all play with together for a little while!

In the course of my studies as a student I have read every section of every Christian Bible I can get my hands on many times over. Now one thing I have always believed is that prayer is a form or spellshaping. As such, I would classify the Biblical book of Psalms as a grimoire or spellbook. Read it and take a look for yourselves, there are spells for victory in war, curing the sick, and even spells for the night watchmen.

Well tell me what you think, I've always thought of the Bible as a decient spellbook for its purpose and a bunch of good stories.

Blessed Be
~Astral




posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 08:12 PM
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Psalms as a spell book? Thats an interesting twist that I haven't heard before but I doubt that if you try to use anything found there as a spell that it will work.



posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 08:21 PM
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Have you had any success using it in this manner? I think it would be a great science experiment to see if science can have a common meeting ground with religion. I think there might be more success in using it with the original language, cause I'm not so sure if it would work with all languages, maybe just the prescribed language of use for the person who made a spell to put these spells into use.



posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 08:29 PM
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Honestly, I have never tried any of the spells from the book of Psalms or any other books of the Bible. I do not know offhand if they would work or not and haven't seen anyone try.

I have a bit of a rule that is that I do not do spells from religions other than my own. I believe that I, a pagan, would probably be less sucessful at them than a person who believed in said faith as I think that believing that your spell will work is an key part of it doing so.

I would be very happy to hear if anyone has had any of the spells work, or not for them.

~Astral



posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 08:39 PM
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Definite nope. And it would be *terrible* as a spellbook!

There are several classes of spells... we'll lump them into "things that affect stuff outside me (love spells, spells for money, curses, blessings, healings on others, etc, etc)" and "things that affect me (attractiveness, money, healing, etc, etc)."

Then we have to look at traditional Jewish magical practices as well.

So... spell formulas generally involve getting together a bunch of ingredients (and some very odd), drawing designs or sigils, and chanting. The Psalms don't have (and have never had) any items/drawings/plants/formulas associated with them. So they would fail that test. They don't involve sacrifices (most spells involve a giving away of something/sacrifice (not necessarily a blood sacrifice.))

Are they chanted? Yes, they could be, but they're a bit longish.

Do they invoke a power or deity? Not really... they don't summon Jehovah.

How do they relate to cultural expressions of Jewish magic? Very poorly. Jewish magic is heavily tied up in some rather obscure symbolism (Kabbalah.)

COULD they be used as spells? Well, yes, inasmuch as Christian praying is sorta-kinda-similar (in an inefficient way) to spells then yes they could. And I have heard of folks using psalms or Biblical verses to "drive out demons and so forth."

But I wouldn't recommend it as a grimmoire to anyone and it is awfully inefficient as a magical system and doesn't make good enough use of the power of the subconscious.



posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 08:50 PM
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Byrd,

For once I think I'd have to disagree with you here:

I think that the Psalms fit the categories quite well, if in a non-working way.

First, not every spell in every spellbook works, they are still in the spellbooks though.

Second, several of the "spells" in the Psalms are ment to effect the outside world, such as those dealing with victory in war, warding off evil and for good harvests. There are also personal spells as well, many dealing with protection, but some also dealing with wealth.

Third, ask any Christian and they'd tell you there is power and a deity involved, I don't believe in said deity but they could be channeling something.

Fourth, There are formulas to some of them, involving processions, burning herbs and making offerings.

Fifth, many are chanted, Catholics especially are known for chanting many of their prayers

Sixth, yes Kabbalah and several Christian direct magiks do exist, but I would also classify prayer as a less potent and more round-about way of trying to use the divine to influence life.

I will agree with you on not encouraging people to use the bible as a spellbook, at least not Pagans and not in today's world. I do believe it could use a bit more study though

~Astral

[edit on 7-6-2004 by The Astral City]



posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 09:04 PM
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The Astral City.....
Who wrote the Book of Psalms?
When?
Have you found any scholarly work, from those who have studied the Book of Psalms for a living, who mention or even cite, with their professional doctorates and credentials on the line, that the Book of Psalm's is a spellbook, or as you term it, a Book of Spells? If so, provide the book name and author or a link would work just fine.

Till then, you are providing what proof to back your conjecture?
BTW, how is this related to conspiracy in religion, pray tell?


seekerof

[edit on 7-6-2004 by Seekerof]



posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 09:22 PM
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King David wrote about half(73/150) the Psalms, and I can look up the dates for you Seekerof.

Edit: other authors are Moses and Adam (www.torah.org...) -however, interesting thing about this Jewish source... God is always spelt as "G-d". is this a Jewish tradition to show respect(or something else) or is that singular to just this website? I'm christian, so i don't know the particulars about the Jewish reliegion.


[edit on 7-6-2004 by pineappleupsidedown]



posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 09:29 PM
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pineappleupsidedown.....

Umm, thats ok....I know who wrote it and when and for what purpose the Book of Psalms was for.
I asked the question to Astral City because it is of utmost importance that one keep in mind the time frame, the context, and the audience that originally wrote, read and heard the Psalms. A simple college level Religion 101 class would resolve this quickly. I merely wanted or hoped that Astral City would catch on to what I was trying to get him to see. I also wanted to see what basis of sources he was using to base his conjecture on.



seekerof



posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 09:34 PM
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lol, got it. i was sorta surprised that you would ask questions that i could have answered in 3rd grade (well, sorta), but im a little to blond to catch hints, especially those directed at other ppl. forgive me


Im also curious for sources, so hopefully he will reply soon.



posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 09:37 PM
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Seekerof,

First of all, I have very probably taken many more philosophy and religion courses than you, and I would be very much pleased if you would just come out and openly disagree with me instead of trying to get me to admit to something or somesuch.

This is more of a personal theory of mine, that is why I asked for people's input upon it. I find several similarities between the book of Psalms and the many many spellbooks I own.

I could probably talk to a good number of professors and theologians about this and get their input upon it, but this is more of just a thought of mine.

I would place it in the conspiracy in religion forum because it fits along with many of the other Pagan elements in Christianity that have been posted in this forum. Maybe the book was based upon Pagan grimoires of the time (again just an idea of mine)

What I am doing here is starting an open marketplace of ideas about something that I believe deserves being investigated further, and I thank everyone for their input into such. One of the Ideas I really like is testing the prayers in the Psalms in a scientific maner; it could lead to some interesting results. I'm actually going to delve into this a bit further and see what I can find on it. More to come!

For now here is some of the historical and biblical information that Seekerof Requested:

The Hebrew Psalter, (biblical book of Psalms) is a collection of 150 short chants and songs. There is no way of dating most of the psalms however none were written after the Maccabean Period (ca. 165) and some 73 of them are attributed to David. The book of Psalms is actually a compiling of smaller books including the Songs of Ascents. The philosopher St. Augustine called the Psalms "a school of prayer".

Interestingly Proverbs, the book after Psalms, and another anthologic collection, involves a great deal of work from Solomon, who's personal grimoire now sits in the British Museum.

~Astral

[edit on 7-6-2004 by The Astral City]



posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 10:14 PM
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This is an interesting thought you've brought up. I have been a believer for over 20 years and I would have to agree with you from the stand point that an out sider would look at any prayer from any religion as a form of a spell.

There are opposing forces on various planes.

Example:

Faith vs. Fear - coming from the an individual with different out comes.
Life vs. death
Blessings vs. Curses
Light vs. Darkness - Spiritually speaking
Order vs. Chaos
Illusions are a lie however.

Side note:
After playing Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic I started thinking about this thought. There are so many people with their own agendas in real life where we are all basically stemming back to the theory that pride is the root of all that is evil.

Note: The Bible is know as the Living Word of God. So you've agreed with God in some part just by implying there is power within the text itself.

Personally I'd rather converse with people who know about the spiritual world than those who oppose the thought all together or those who think they know every answer to the Bible from a limiting set of human made doctrines or views.



posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 10:44 PM
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The Astral City.
I would be careful how you use phrasings such as:


First of all, I have very probably taken many more philosophy and religion courses than you


Probable equates to another conjecture, which further equates to something not based on reliable fact and amounting to an assertion.
As to my coming out and saying that I disagree, I personally didn't think I had to, but if you insist, yes, I wholeheartedly disagree.

I understand that you are asking for people's imput, just as I gave one in response, but your asking for imput based on an assertion or conjecture, with nothing to back them with. I simply wanted to know more on how you came upon what you mention.

Also of note is that the Book Of Psalms is also a collection of songs, which were sung in the context of worship....like they do in churches, temples, etc. today, regardless of religion. They are called the Song of Songs, and Lamentations. The Song of Songs is an anthology of love poetry from ancient Israel and the Lamentations is a group of songs of anguish that were mainly motivated by the destruction of Jerusalem in 587BCE. Nonetheless, they are representive of poetry and not to be confused with "grimoires". I do not see Hebrew being equated to magical symbols that require proper combination to work. The Kabbalah is of the grimoire genre.
Source:
An Introduction to the Bible: A Journey into three worlds, 5th Edition, by Christian Hauer and Wiliam Young.




seekerof

[edit on 7-6-2004 by Seekerof]



posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 11:03 PM
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Do you believe the Word as God Himself (Rhema) and the Power (Zoe) within the Word of God though? Child like faith is is quite different than knowledge.



posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 11:06 PM
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yeah...leave your dungeons & dragons in the box....heheehee



posted on Jun, 8 2004 @ 02:14 PM
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yes a lament is some sort of poem or saying.



posted on Jun, 8 2004 @ 02:28 PM
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Astral City-

I don't know if I've ever thought of spalms as spells but the principle of what the Psalms are are similiar to what i think you are considering as spells. In Psalms, most of them were songs/prayers intended to worship God with. In those songs, like you said, proclomations would be made. Whether over the enemy you fight, or for success and so forth. I don't know much about spells, but I would think they would work similiarly.



posted on Jun, 8 2004 @ 02:51 PM
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Seekerof

I am with you in this one, I have vast religion knowledge because I research in religion for historical purposes I do not consider myself an expert in religion.

In all the time I have done my studies I have never found anything to compare the book of psalm with books of spell and I have some of those myself.

I am not religious or share any religious believe but rather rely in historical facts, in my opinion the book of psalm is just that a book of songs, poems and praise to God


Just my opinion.



posted on Jun, 8 2004 @ 03:01 PM
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Back in the old days of history, reading was something only available to scholars. In general, the masses were illiterate.
I see the Psalms as bite sized chunks of the Bible which people could memorise and use as their own scripture. It's a centuries old tradition and we see it working it's way through the Middle Ages, right up to today.

Song and verse is one of the easiest ways to remember anything.

[edit on 8-6-2004 by Leveller]



posted on Jun, 8 2004 @ 03:34 PM
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I have found something very interesting in the internet in wish psalms are refer as spells.

www.spellmaker.com...


[edit on 8-6-2004 by marg6043]



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