Video of girls dancing in lingerie causes internet row

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
I wouldn't use the word disturbed, but how does someone know what would appeal to a pedophile, unless they are either a pedophile or a doctor who studies pedophiles? I think that's a valid question.

We know what appeals to a pedophile by the definition of pedophile: someone who is sexually attracted to kids.

I have to agree, kids aren't sexy and I have to wonder about people that think they are sexy or that they "appear" sexy. If people see these kids as sexy there's definitely something going on in their heads that's not going on in my head, I'm not seeing it as sexy at all.

I've come to realize that this video is like those 3D posters. You either see it or you don't. Some people are just not going to see the 3D object, but it IS there.

This has also made me realize something even bigger. No matter how perfect a form a government may be, if society becomes so morally corrupt that they don't even realize it, it is beyond hope and doomed to destroy itself. So we can argue about Capitalism, Socialism, Immigration or Taxes, but in the end it is morality that glues a society together.

I you don't get it, you wont.

Am I an alcoholic for denouncing 8 year-old kids drinking alcohol? Am I a drug-addict for condemning 8 year-old kids for taking narcotics? Let me guess: it's all in my head and my problem?

All good and well for people to say "just worry about your own kids!" but when our kids see and hear about your kids acting like this they tend to want to imitate the behaviour. They think it is normal behaviour.

You don't have to be some grumpy old conservative to realise that what these 8 year-olds are wearing and how they are dancing are very inappropriate for kids their age.

Originally posted by RestingInPieces

Originally posted by Dark Ghost

But you were suggesting that the only thing wrong with this video is those who see it as kids being sexualised. Then you went on to associate denouncing the sexualisation of children with being a paedophile.

You can't see it as sexualized without having sexualized it in your head. It's not sexual by nature. They aren't on stage having sex. I don't dare imagine what people like you think when they see little girls dancing like that.

I'll just have to go with the evidence and say reason is a waste of your time as well.



If YOU cannot see that gyrating hips and wearing costumes that look like stripper outfits is sexual, then you have a problem, not the people that can. Recognizing that this behavior is wrong does not make a person a pedophile. Your constant attempt to push that label on others is rather stale, at best, and disturbing at worst. The evidence regarding reasoning is not coming out in your favor thus far.

[edit on 17-5-2010 by LadyGreenEyes]

reply to post by Dark Ghost

You don't have to be some grumpy old conservative to realise that what these 8 year-olds are wearing and how they are dancing are very inappropriate for kids their age.

Seriously, if I had let my daughter wear those clothes in that video, and dance in that fashion...there is not a thing that you could possibly do about it.

Why?

Because in these United States we live in a republic, not a democracy. It does not matter if the minority, or the majority find something to be morally degrading; you can complain about it all day long, but you do not have the authority to impose sanctions on another person's children. To think that you do is a gross misunderstanding, and you would be better off living in a far more socialist Country with such views.

Such behavior is what Thomas Jefferson called tyranny of the majority.

If you find that a certain something is inappropriate for specific age groups then put those sanctions on your own children, but leave other people alone. The only reason as to why your children would want to imitate anyone else is because they learned such behavior from you. If their Parents were not obsessed with the lives of everyone else I do not think our children would learn to be either.

Everyday that you wake up is another day to remind yourself that you have no authority over other people, or their children.

[edit on 5/17/2010 by dalan.]

Originally posted by dalan.
It does not matter if the minority, or the majority find something to be morally degrading; you can complain about it all day long, but you do not have the authority to impose sanctions on another person's children.

Quite true. And complain we must. And when money is involved, we can deprive them of it. I don't let my child listen to, watch, or purchase things that I feel are inappropriate or the items of people who do things I feel are inappropriate (i.e. Miley Cyrus)

I also wouldn't let my kids play with children who behave inappropriately, or glorify the inappropriate. I also don't, as a family and adult, associate with other adults or family who do. And I am not hurting for friends.

You are right. We cannot force morality on those who cannot see the obvious. But we who do, have an obligation to always identify, and speak out against it, as well as shun the businesses, organizations, industries and individuals both socially and financially.

Originally posted by Point of No Return
reply to post by Dark Ghost

 

The point is by using a reasonable sense of caution, one can prevent bad things from happening. Not all bad things, but many. Do you consider locking your doors to be paranoid, living in a constant state of fear?

I agree with everything you said, but I just don't see how this video of these girls dancing puts them, or anyone else at risk of bad things.

The reason this sort of things places the kids at risk is that it makes it harder for these kids to understand what inappropriate behavior looks like. When they are taught that acting like a sex object is somehow normal, or art, how are they supposed to know when it is dangerous? Plus, the more such things become acceptable, the more other things will become acceptable. It is about lowering standards, and it happens at the expense of our children. I remember watching a video with young girls singing (I think) a Spice Girls song with very sexual lyrics, and parents listening seemed to see no issues with this. How can that not be a problem and a danger?

Originally posted by dalan.
Seriously, if I had let my daughter where those clothes in that video, and dance in that fashion...there is not a thing that you could possibly do about it.

Why?

Because in these United States we live in a republic, not a democracy. It does not matter if the minority, or the majority find something to be morally degrading; you can complain about it all day long, but you do not have the authority to impose sanctions on another person's children. To think that you do is a gross misunderstanding, and you would be better off living in a far more socialist Country with such views.

This is not about me. This is not about imposing my views on others. This is really about 8 year-old girls dressing and acting like grown women. If parents are happy for their kids to do these things, do so in your own homes! Don't put it on stage in the public domain and then spread it over Youtube.

Such behavior is what Thomas Jefferson called tyranny of the majority.

If you find that a certain something is inappropriate for specific age groups then put those sanctions on your own children, but leave other people alone. The only reason as to why your children would want to imitate anyone else is because they learned such behavior from you. If their Parents were not obsessed with the lives of everyone else I do not think our children would learn to be either.

Maybe you should read over this paragraph again. Can you please show me videos of me dressing and dancing like that? Why the need to resort to such weak tactics? You know very well this has nothing to do with obsessing over the lives of other people and their children. It is about drawing the line when seeing kids dressed and acting like adults in public. Do what you like in your own home, just don't let your bad parenting influence anyone else.

Everyday that you wake up is another day to remind yourself that you have no authority over other people, or their children.

I must say you have taken a creative approach in trying to make me look bad. Using the "hungry for power and control over others" card. Unfortunately, you are forced into using this weak tactic to compensate for your lack of plausible arguments.

[edit on 17/5/2010 by Dark Ghost]

I have no difficulty identifying the sexual signals exhibited throughout this routine. The arched backs, hands directly beneath the "breasts", gyrating hips, undulating torso, display of a curved spine with protruding derriere, not to mention the pelvic thrusts are universally used to entice. Just because these girls are mimicking older women does not change the meaning of those signals. I'm stunned that people would accuse others of being dirty minded or oppressive when it's pointed out that their daughters are doing some sort of primal availability display.

reply to post by Wolf321


Your biggest assumption is that sex and sexuality are immoral.

Maybe from your perspective.

But not everyone else.

And you have no right to try to force anyone, in anyway, to follow your subjective moral codes.

reply to post by dalan.


That's funny, I never said that sex or sexuality in and of itself was immoral. I'm quite a fan of both; in the right place, with the right people and of the right age. When it comes to children, yes, sex and sexuality are immoral and highly inappropriate.

I also never mentioned forcing anyone to do anything either. That's two assumptions you made.

[edit on 17-5-2010 by Wolf321]

reply to post by Dark Ghost

This is not about me. This is not about imposing my views on others.

You don't want to impose your views on others? What?

Oh wait...

Yes you do:

This is really about 8 year-old girls dressing and acting like grown women. If parents are happy for their kids to do these things, do so in your own homes! Don't put it on stage in the public domain and then spread it over Youtube.

Uh huh, because you have the power to make such a decision?

Sure.

Maybe you should read over this paragraph again. Can you please show me videos of me dressing and dancing like that? Why the need to resort to such weak tactics?

What weak tactics?

You know very well this has nothing to do with obsessing over the lives of other people and their children.

You sure seem obsessed if that is not the case.

It is about drawing the line when seeing kids dressed and acting like adults in public.

If drawing lines helps you to cope when you can't force your morals on others then go for it. I can get you a copy of Microsoft paint if it would help?

Do what you like in your own home, just don't let your bad parenting influence anyone else.

Why not? What if they want to be influenced? What if they agree with me?

You have control issues.

And why is my parenting bad?

Oh yeah, because I don't agree with you.

Typically human.

I must say you have taken a creative approach in trying to make me look bad.

I am an artist.

Using the "hungry for power and control over others" card. Unfortunately, you are forced into using this weak tactic to compensate for your lack of plausible arguments.

You are right, I am forced into it:

This is really about 8 year-old girls dressing and acting like grown women. If parents are happy for their kids to do these things, do so in your own homes! Don't put it on stage in the public domain and then spread it over Youtube.

[edit on 5/17/2010 by dalan.]

Originally posted by KILL_DOGG
I don't get the uproar about this.

First off, the girls are NOT wearing lingerie; they're wearing spandex shorts along with flesh colored stockings that dancers normally wear.

Secondly, do all of you throw this kind of fit when young girls wear two piece bathing suits that are infinitely more revealing? Probably not.

With those two points being made, I do think the dance moves are a little racey, but nothing overtly inappropriate. I just think you all need to calm down and let kids have some fun. This isn't going to make them any bigger targets for pedophiles than any other kid and as long as the parents were on board and there to supervise, maybe you all should lighten up a little. Christ, I thought the video was going to be somthing bad and it was just a group of talented dancers doing a great dance to a bad song.

This is not something anyone should be offended by. I would like to see what these girls are capable of on stage in a few more years. I hope they're on the next season of America's Got Talent and wear the same outfit....talk about free publicity.

[edit on 17-5-2010 by KILL_DOGG]

[edit on 17-5-2010 by KILL_DOGG]

Alright, having seen the video now, I am just about sick. That WAS lingerie, or worse - more like stripper clothing. The moves were ALL like something you would expect from a stripper (at least judging by what some television shows tell - I do not attend such places). These CHILDREN have no idea what they are doing, or that they are being exploited. They are CHILDREN, not strippers, and the parents, dance instructors, costumers, et al, ought to be in jail for producing something this vile. The talent that these girls might have is NOT the issue; their exploitation is. This video is exploitation. I reported the new link as child abuse, because that is what it is. No amount of publicity is worth that sort of exposure, and that is not what talented kids need.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


Something this vile?

look... your army and your jew friends are killing innocent people and children on the other side of the planet every freakin day for no reason besides money and you think this is vile?

Please watch more international news and let this slip. I see nothing wrong with it besides some kids dancing... like I said, if someone sees something sexual in 7 year olds dancing, that someone has issues.

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

Something this vile?

Please watch more international news and let this slip. I see nothing wrong with it besides some kids dancing... like I said, if someone sees something sexual in 7 year olds dancing, that someone has issues.

You can actually read that green text that LadyGreenEyes posted? Because it's not legible on my screen so I have no idea what she said.

From your reply I take it she doesn't like it. Well nobody forced her to watch it. I don't see anything wrong with it either.

If anyone has gone to a dance competition, and being that I'm engaged to a dance instructor I've been to far too many, I can tell you what these girls were wearing is not far off from what is normally worn. I'm not justifying it, just pointing out that the dance culture is used to these type of outfits, albeit not quite as extreme.

That being said, it's the moves that made my fiance and I raise our eyebrows. Putting a lingeriesque outfit coupled with those moves is just waaaaay over the top in a venue that normally skirts the ceiling.

[edit on 17-5-2010 by xEphon]

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

Lady... you do realize that people using the dark theme have serious issues reading what you type right?

I can almost see in macro mode now considering the effort my eyes have done to read it... lol

As for the others...

I smell hypocrisy all over... but oh well..

I usually post in green, and it shows fine on my screen......but since you state it's a problem, posting standard just for you.

Hypocrisy? Not even close. I have girls, and they would NEVER be allowed to wear something like those stripper outfits. Not for any production, no matter how big it might be. No way, no how. I have final say on what clothing they wear daily, and they don't wear the slutty little outfits offered by far too many clothing stores. My daughters have more value than that. it is very possible to showcase talent without sexualizing children, as was done in this video. This isn't "art", it isn't "normal", and it isn't right. NO CHILDREN should be exploited in this fashion, no matter who their parents are. Parents that would allow this for a moment of "fame" are worse than negligent.

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

Something this vile?

look... your army and your jew friends are killing innocent people and children on the other side of the planet every freakin day for no reason besides money and you think this is vile?

Please watch more international news and let this slip. I see nothing wrong with it besides some kids dancing... like I said, if someone sees something sexual in 7 year olds dancing, that someone has issues.

Did you run out of ways to defend this vile garbage? War and your opinions or biases regarding the Jewish people have nothing whatsoever to do with this issue. Do you have anything relevant to say, or are you proclaiming your defeat now?

Originally posted by dalan.
You don't want to impose your views on others? What?

Oh wait...

Yes you do:

You do understand the difference between raising your kids in your own home and and failing to raise them outside of the home, don't you? See it kinda becomes society's problem when parents fail to raise their kids outside of their own homes.

Uh huh, because you have the power to make such a decision?

Sure.

I have as much authority to tell you how I feel kids should be raised as you do to tell me how kids should be raised. Why are you trying to make it seem like I am placing myself on a pedestal?

What weak tactics?

Attacking me by trying to misrepresent my stance on this issue. Why can't you debate my arguments without saying "you want to control others". It is kind of sad you need to put down others instead of addressing what they say.

You sure seem obsessed if that is not the case.

Obsessed for calling a spade a spade? At least I am addressing the issue and not the poster. What do you expect for a thread like this? Everybody will come in and say "all fine and dandy, no issue here, great dance moves!" ? You think every person is going to agree with that, and if they don't, it is because they are trying to be the authority and force their morals on others?

If drawing lines helps you to cope when you can't force your morals on others then go for it. I can get you a copy of Microsoft paint if it would help?

Again, why the need to misrepresent my position? This is not about me and my morals. You seem very determined to make this thread about me and how I can't bare to let others live how they want. I wonder why? If that were the case, then why do so many other people also seem to have a problem with the video?

Why not? What if they want to be influenced? What if they agree with me?

You are trapping yourself in a corner with that comment. Have a think about that before you elaborate.

You have control issues.

Again, why do you feel the need to attack me? According to your logic, a mother that tells her child he can't have that large lollipop is having control issues.

And why is my parenting bad?

Oh yeah, because I don't agree with you.

Typically human.

I do not know you or how capable you are as a parent. You do not know me either and are only making assumptions. When I see bad parenting occurring in the public domain, I will call it how it is. This is an internet forum which deals with discussing issues. It's not meant to be a place where you can stroke your own ego by trying put down other members.

[edit on 18/5/2010 by Dark Ghost]

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
The moves were ALL like something you would expect from a stripper (at least judging by what some television shows tell - I do not attend such places).

Dancing is dancing and stripper do dance so it's not unusual that there are some identical moves.
Besides: I've seen kids do such moves in dance acts in a #load of videos and it's nothing new that some people are outraged because kids have fun and they think it's "wrong"
In fact in germany we had years ago on german television a show were kids were dressed up as musicians, imitating them and doing their moves - that was 20 years ago (and there were a lot of 7-8 year old girl imitating and being dressed like madonna - nobody cared, the kids had fun and it was cute) or you just take a look to japan...there are kids groups like C-ute or Mini Moni who are doing the exact same thing like the kids in that video and guess what? They like what they're doing.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
These CHILDREN have no idea what they are doing, or that they are being exploited.

And you know that how? Have you asked them? I bet not.
So, what makes you think that they have no idea? Please don't answer with "They're young, so they're stupid and clueless" because that is the most stupidest thing i always read here. Kids aren't stupid and clueless and like i said: They're not exploited and i said it before: If anyone sees more than just a dance act, than certainly he has a sick mind and needs some help

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
They are CHILDREN, not strippers.

Do they strip? Haven't seen it in that video, i saw them doing a normal dance act. It's not like they stripped down their clothes or simulated sex like you make it sound...

reply to post by Wolf321

We know what appeals to a pedophile by the definition of pedophile: someone who is sexually attracted to kids.

Indeed, just that, it doesn't matter what the kids are wearing or how they dance.

Pedophiles are attracted to kids period, what harm is this video going to do?

I've come to realize that this video is like those 3D posters. You either see it or you don't. Some people are just not going to see the 3D object, but it IS there.

Yes either your mind associates these dancing girls with sex, or it doesn't.

[edit on 18-5-2010 by Point of No Return]