Originally posted by Zelun
So what are we saying here? We need to set limits on the expression of fashion and dance because it's making us look (or feel?) like perverts? I don't have the answer. It just seems to me, however, that modesty is a highly subjective principle, and if something offends your sensibilities you should by all means curtail your exposure, but don't expect everyone to share your indignation. Instead, try to figure out why it is you're feeling offended, and more importantly, why other people are not.

Star for you.

There is a host of amazingly complex and critical points condensed into this one tiny paragraph.

What you said here sums up why America (and to a greater extent humanity) cannot progress but proceed to decline. Groups and individuals are not trying to figure out why behaviors, principles and ideas are bad (or good) for a society and make a choice to follow and adhere to them.

Quite often the choices are made to fulfill a short term interest, at the cost of the long term, or more personal interest at the sake of the society.

It may take a Biologist to determine if a bird flapping its wings a certain way constitutes a mating dance, but any schmuck should be able to tell this type of dance and the costumes are inherently sexual.

In this case, I feel it boils down to whether or not children should be made or encouraged to be sexualized; and to a larger extent should adults be openly glorifying sexual behavior or should they focus on more important behavior characteristics?

[edit on 16-5-2010 by Wolf321]

I think they're great dancers and am honestly not offended or weirded out by their clothing. I took dance all through school and we wore unitards and bathing suits and our recital uniforms could consist of something like that. If they're up there grinding on a pole and catching fake 1 dollar bills I'd raise my eyebrow a little but to me this is just a bunch of talented girls playing dress up for a performance.

As a story though, parents were upset at a recital because there was a group of teenage girls who were all dressed up as catwomen to dance to that batman song. They couldn't wear underwear or bras underneath without them showing and a lot of the girls really needed them and some people were bothered.

I dont see anything wrong for what they were wearing for dancing your forgetting ATS

America was a nation of self expression freedom of expression


Sigh i guess that dead out thanks to some idiots who are overreacting over nothing.

Originally posted by v3_exceed

Originally posted by Blanca Rose

Originally posted by v3_exceed

Because you know the parents had ANYTHING to do with the costumes. You have zero sense of rational. It's a dance routine people.

Excuse me, when kids are this age, the parents take them for lessons, and know exactly what the costumes for such a production will look like before the show. They probably also took their kids for fittings, so YES, they knew ahead of time what the routine, and costumes would look like.

If they had protested enough about the costumes looking like lingerie, they would have been changed!

Having had 2 daughters go through formal ballet, I can assure you that you are 100% wrong. The parents bring them into the class in basic leotards and the correct shoes, the schools do the fittings. Kids at this level are not entrusted with the actual costumes, especially for something at a production level such as this. The parents may have been at dress rehearsals maybe not.

Secondly protesting the costume would not get the costumes changed, but might get your child excluded from an otherwise important moment in her life.

The costumes look nothing like lingerie, a swimsuit reveals more, and dare I say that if you think this is lingerie you really need to shop more. I suspect that you are just jealous of these young girls and using this as an opportunity to vent. Back to your bridge now.

..Ex

Being a former dancer and appearing in many performances - I can absolutely say that Blanca Rose is 100% right. Parents do see the costumes and have a say in whether or not their kids are wearing it - but letting them perform or not. My costumes were brought home with me after the final fitting. My mother absolutely did see all costumes.

And those girls did not learn that routine in ballet class. lol They now have hip hop and contemporar classes for little kids. Thats were those girls learned those moves - not ballet where you wear uniformed black leotards and light pink tights with ballet shoes.

And I absolutely have a sense of rational and absolutely can say that their routine and clothing was not appropriate for 8yr old girls. I am very liberal when it comes to dress and the human body. But as a mother, I would be very concerned with my daughter performing sexy moves wearing a sexy outfit. If it was juts a bathing suit and they were running around throwing a ball or spashing in a pool - thats one thing - but that outfit mixed with the sexy movces - is not appropirate for little children.

And before im accused of being jealous of 8 yr old girls well, just dont even accuse me of it. I cant believe that the accusation of jealousy is being thrown around.

*GEL*

Originally posted by v3_exceed

Originally posted by Wolf321
Allow a child to sling sexuality around scantly clad for cheers should hardly constitute an important moment in her life.

The fact that all you see when you view that video is scantily clad children is clearly disturbing, but I digress...

This thread has obviously been taken over by the self proclaimed puritan group of ATS. It has become painfully obvious that anyone who doesn't agree with these types is quickly labeled a bad parent or worse.

The production as seen in the video is a world class production, and not something you would find at the local Community Center, but I really wouldn't expect most of the posters in this thread to know the difference.

..Ex

Im not really sure why you are going on about this.

I am voicing the same opinion as others - and I have almost 20 years of dance under me. I am so far from a puritan I actually laugh when I read that.

I am a woman. A mom and a former dancer, yet you would call me disturbed for saying: not appropriate attire or moves for a little child.

Just like you are pissed that people are labeling the parents of those kids as "bad" you are in turn are labeling the members here "puritans" and used in a derogatory sense. I dont get it.

Anyways, obviously people have different opinions of what is and what is not appropriate for little children. Cant please everyone for sure.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo

Parents do see the costumes and have a say in whether or not their kids are wearing it - but letting them perform or not.

And those girls did not learn that routine in ballet class. lol They now have hip hop and contemporar classes for little kids. Thats were those girls learned those moves - not ballet where you wear uniformed black leotards and light pink tights with ballet shoes.

I think you mean BY letting their kids perform or not... and I seriously doubt many parents would pull their kids out of a once in a lifetime chance such as this over a costume choice.

I am very aware of what my kids learned in Ballet class, and many types of dance was taught, not just the more formal aspects of ballet even though there was a lot of the formal ballet being taught. I can't of course tell you what it was like 25+ years ago, but I do know what it was like when my kids went through it.

Regardless, I stand by what I've said. This is art. You don't have to like it, you don't have to agree, but from both an art and a marketing perspective it was a smashing success.

Doesn't change that the trolls in this thread are still trolls pushing their sense of morality on the rest of the world.

..Ex

Originally posted by v3_exceed
Personally I find nothing sexual or physically appealing about the dance, but really it's not meant to be physically appealing.

I don't find anything physically appealing about this either, but that doesn't mean it's not sexual. Something can have physical appeal and not be sexual and vice versa.

When you or if you go to an art gallery, and you see a bust of a naked female adult do you drop your pants and commence fapping? I would suspect not, and not because naked female form isn't appealing, but because the ART is not physically appealing.

Are you forgetting that we are talking about children here?? I don't equate a naked body, adult or child, with sexuality. Things like positions, dress, behavior etc can make either sexual. I have seen plenty of recitals and professional dance performance by kids without seeing or getting the impression they were sexual.

The dance is ART, if it offends or if it pleases it has still done its job and caused people to think.

Its this view that discredits the Art community. A guy can poop on a plate and call it art. I call it a biohazard. You call young girls dancing in erotic clothing and in a sexual manner art. I call it exploitation.

I understand why people think the dressing and moves were inappropriate..... That I get....

But saying their good dancers... eh, I wouldn't go so far to say good, I'd say potential.... one girl darn near flung herself off the stage, they were literally falling all over the places, choreography was horrific.

I think if the person organizing it spent half as much time as they did trying to sexy up children, and put that toward actually teaching them to dance, it'd of been a bit better.... Still I hate the song, beyonce a successful filthy rich happily married woman has no business singing a song about being single and upset about not being proposed to.........

This is a sad reflection on how low our standards for taste and appropriateness have become. It is the year 2010 and we have 8 year-old girls dressed like prostitutes and imitating the moves of strippers! Kind of outrageous...

Yes, they are talented dancers. But that really is not the issue at heart. If we condone this type of stuff as being acceptable then where are we headed?

[edit on 17/5/2010 by Dark Ghost]

I see lots of posters saying how these kids are great dancers. Who Cares?!

This is insane!

This can be used as a proof that each generation is made of weaker substance than the last.

These kids have parents that have been desensitized, demoralized, and force-fed a mish-mash of "I do what I want-ism", with a pinch of MTV morals and a splash of Jerry Springer ethics.

You end up with retards that strut their poor mixed of children in adult outfits, and then go home and talk about the problem with child predators.

We are creating a dozen new monsters every day. We are bringing up our kids in a nightmare society, where there is no right or wrong, and almost ANYTHING can be argued to be right or wrong.

I come away from this post feeling one thing: Sad.
I am just so, so sad about this. How lost are we.

We are headed in the wrong direction.

Originally posted by MAC269
The children are in swim suits. The problem is not the children or even the parents it is the dirty minded adults watching.

For every year that passes we are making the line that divides children from teenagers from adolescents from adults harder and harder to see. The result is a generation of children that get treated like adults and a generation of adults that get treated like children!

[edit on 17/5/2010 by Dark Ghost]

Originally posted by Dark Ghost

Originally posted by MAC269
The children are in swim suits. The problem is not the children or even the parents it is the dirty minded adults watching.

For every year that passes we are making the line that divides children from teenagers from adolescents from adults harder and harder to see. The result is a generation of children that get treated like adults and a generation of adults that get treated like children!

[edit on 17/5/2010 by Dark Ghost]

Damn. I liked that post. So nice, we should see it twice. This is what worries me, 8 year olds treated as adults. Especially in a sexual context.