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When can one question God - or not ever?

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posted on May, 16 2010 @ 03:19 PM
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I find that people make up rules on their own questionable behavior, and when to question God as they go along through life.
The "Christian activist", who actually risks life and limb, is rare.
As such, isn't Christianity more about cajoling people into a verbal paradigm?
When people get "saved", or repeat a prayer, what does it actually mean?

Having read on Nietzche I think Jesus was the biggest doubter ever, and that religious injunction tells us not to lie, yet it will not tolerate any truth outside its own definitions.

So is there anyone who has been convinced or alienated by Scripture?
Does the believer who also questions God exist?




posted on May, 16 2010 @ 03:26 PM
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Wow. How to question which does not exist except only in the minds of those who already believe.

How existential; since you mentioned Nietzche.

I am glad to see that you acknowledge most religions refuse to believe other than their beliefs, even when they know they are wrong... ie the lying part.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 03:34 PM
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Can you clarify on Nietzche's position towards religion or Jesus. Are you refering to his book The Antichrist?

[edit on 16-5-2010 by AProphet1233]



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 03:38 PM
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From the Gospel of Mark



(Mar 14:32) And they came to a place which was named Gethsemane. And He said to His disciples, Sit here while I pray.
(Mar 14:33) And He took along Peter and James and John with Him. And He began to be much amazed and to be deeply troubled.
(Mar 14:34) And He said to them, My soul is deeply grieved, unto death. Remain here and watch.
(Mar 14:35) And going forward a little, He fell on the ground and prayed that if it were possible, the hour might pass from Him.
(Mar 14:36) And He said, Abba, Father, all things are possible to You; take this cup from Me. Yet not what I will, but what You will.
( Mar 14:37) And He came and found them sleeping. And He said to Peter, Simon, do you sleep? Were you not strong enough to watch one hour?
(Mar 14:38) Watch and pray, that you may not enter into temptation. The spirit truly is willing, but the flesh is weak.
(Mar 14:39) And going away again, He prayed, saying the same thing.


Jesus is asking the question; "Father do I have to do this thing?" This indicates that it is proper to question God on certain questions such as "Why did this happen", "What should I do now", etc. In spite of what the critics say, God does not want any mindless zombies.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 04:17 PM
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question god how? like his existence? his intention? his omniness?

i believe that the 'god' that you speak of would take no offense to anything you may think or consider. that would defeat the purpose of finding out what our experience called "life" really is. remember, you aren't seperate from god, there are just aspects of his (our) existence that have been purposefully hidden for the sake of learning.

consider the omnipresent god God v1.0 and us God v1.1. 1.0 is like the directing AI in the game left for dead. He keeps the system moving, the game interesting, and the storyline consistent but what we do with our characters in the game is still up to us. any help?



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 04:32 PM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 

If we were made in God's image, as the bible says, we have the right to question God in any way we like or to turn our back on him/her/them completely.


My experience of God has always been as a friend - a friend I look up to and get advice and help from, but still a friend.

When I wanted to learn from a Buddhist teacher, (who was strangely pressuring me to ask him to teach me,) despite being brought up as a Christian, believing in Jesus, I walked out of the Buddhist temple to a garden, and discussed it with God. To my surprise His words were clear in my head: "it's OK to do this if you want. He won't be able to hurt you."

It had never occurred to me this teacher might be dangerous, but I discovered people who agreed to be students had terrible experiences with a demon and deadly accidents if they tried to leave him, and I couldn't find anyone who had left him and lived. He'd studied with Tibetans from an area where demonology was still prevalent, and had no compunction about using it to assert his will and keep his students, who ended up having to work for him, in line.

I ended up leaving anyway, and met this demon for myself, and had to run a gauntlet of deadly incidents. I sure needed the help God gave me.


Another time I was driving far from any civilisation, and my 18 month old boy started convulsing until he died. I was sitting on the dirt road, limp baby in my arms, and I screamed at God, telling him off for letting my baby die. I was so furious with him I really "gave him hell." I could feel God's presence, just as real as a living person, and knew he was hearing.
Then Hansel started breathing again. He's now 28.


Arguing with God is fine, we were given free will for a reason. Just because religions are often about control and insist on creeds and dogma does not mean God is like that.

I believe God wants to communicate with us in whatever manner suits us. I also believe he's proud of his children who become atheists, growing stronger because they are doing it all alone, without his help.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 04:33 PM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


When is it okay to question God? That's kind of a silly question, one has to know God and understand God's nature before you can question God... When can we question religion? ALWAYS.

Any religion which cannot stand up to tests of simple intelligence and logic is false. Documents like the Bible are inconsistent and self-contradictory and present a wishy-washy bipolar deity who is kind and forgiving one moment and slaughtering the First Born of Egypt the next.

I agree that Jesus was a doubter of established religion. Jesus showed people that through love they could save themselves and that hollow religious rituals and traditions got them nowhere. In my opinion Jesus was an enemy of the Middle-Man style of religion where in order to get to God you needed rituals and priests and such. Jesus said he came to bring a sword, not peace because he knew that those in power would not allow peace and love to replace their corrupt religious and government institutions. Without conflict the greedy and wicked would not have power and Jesus preached non-violence so they needed to get rid of him. Then after his death they further destroyed his legacy when Christianity was adopted by the Romans and became synonymous with Roman tyranny and power. Over the centuries tyrannical Kings and corrupt Pontifs used that religion of peace to wage war, to torture and to maintain control.

Always question religion.

As for God, who knows if one even exists.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by AProphet1233
 

On Nietzche and lying in religion: I think it's from "Assorted Opinions and Maxims against illusion" (1879):

Science destroys Faith, whereas Christian morality promotes science, LYING IS FORBIDDEN. We must therefore seek the truth to avoid lying. NOW, when science examines reality, it upsets religious dogma... and then we have to give up these dogmas. So WHEN RELIGION OPPOSES SCIENTIFIC FACT...RELIGION MUST BE DONE AWAY WITH.

From: "Nietzsche For Beginners", La Decouverte, 1990, p. 111.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 04:46 PM
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Question with boldness even the existence of God; because if there is one, he must approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear.
Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to his nephew, Peter Carr.
I have questioned God, and His very existence. My experience, while not as amazing as that of the above post, has convinced me that God exists.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 04:47 PM
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I believe in God. But I have questioned him many times when bad things happen.

I consider God to be my heavenly father that loves even more than my earthly father did and that was a lot.

Last time i questioned God was when I discovered I need a kidney transplant. I screamed why me Lord. What did I do so bad to deserve this fate?

And then I realized it was better if I prayed for strength and understanding. Since that day last August I have grown in knowledge and character.

I have learned things about myself and life that I would not have known without facing possible death.

Of course you may question God. And you can be sure you will get an answer in His time.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 04:58 PM
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reply to post by Kailassa
 

A fascinating narrative. Perhaps in the tradition of "cying out to God in the fox-hole" trope.
If one looks past the over-riding Christian voice here, you seem to have three versions of God that led back to a pretty banal Christian conviction.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 05:22 PM
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reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 

EXCELLENT!
However, if we should question religion, then what parts of "faith" are above this, or seperate from it? If religion comes from scripture, then how can we claim to be both believing yet skeptical?
For "wrong faith" to lead to "correct faith", rather than atheism, seems like a bit of a convenient cop-out?



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 05:29 PM
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im pretty sure God can handle any of our 'questioning'....

if anything, doubting or questioning will affect us...it wont affect God one iota.....

its like questioning somethin that just IS...do you really think what you think or how you feel about that thing will change it at ALLLL???? um...no.....so go ahead, knock yourself out and feel philosophical and enlightened...at the end of the day it wont mean diddly squat....



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by ikonspyre
 

If you're a believer, then "no" it won't affect God.
However it certainly effects us, and what God seemingly expects from us now is very different to what He demanded in the 1950s, let alone the inquisition.
So all we have is our INTERPRETATION of God, which is a current construct.
The fact that people confuse self-justification with God is very concerning.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 05:47 PM
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I guess you could ask questions of the Infinite, but would you understand the response?

Personally, I think it is more appropriate to question the accuracy and content of the bible. There are to many instances of man's tinkering with scripture to make the message consistent with TPTB of the time, leading to contradictions and discrepancies.

IMHO, the creator and the Infinite are not the same being; one is inferior and the other is Supremely Infinite. And I don't care if anyone agrees with me because this is my truth. Everyone has their own truth from their own experiences, so I don't understand why so many religious people demand adherence to someone else's truth



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 05:50 PM
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Jiminy Cricket!!! That's a tough one!

I could elaborate but I don't wanna....



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 05:56 PM
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reply to post by RadicalGnostic
 

The Bible needs to be interpreted - everyone agrees on that. Most Christian sects will simply say that differing readings "don't have the Holy Spirit", and therefore they're not valid.
Now that is a form of mental terrorism and control, which excuses the stressing of certain verses over others, no matter how they shy from the basic issues and questions.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 06:13 PM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


I could not agree with you more.

I refer to the Gospel of Thomas often in my own reflections. It was buried at Nag Hammadi during the time when orthodoxy was deciding the books for their bible, so I hope it has been tampered with less.

For me, experience is the key thing. How one experiences spiritual things is a personal journey, not necessarily conforming to the ideals of any organized religion. Experience trumps dogma in my life.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 06:49 PM
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reply to post by RadicalGnostic
 

Sure, but ultimately religion claims to know about things of which us mortals have no experience, such as life after death.
So when we become entangled with religion we always lose out as a inferior position, because it pre-supposes the lack in our consciouss experience.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 08:13 PM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


Well we should never have to believe anything on blind ignorant faith that's one of the main reasons I don't adhere to any religion.

Any truly all-powerful deity would be able to do better at proving his existence than self-contradictory sacred works and texts filled with logical or scientific errors. If a true perfect God were to write a book said book would turn out perfect, wouldn't you agree?

We must always question religion, for religion is filled with man's flawed perceptions and attempts at understanding "God", the Universe and Everything. Believing these flawed perceptions are absolute truth based on blind faith is just silly but adapting them as we learn and discover more about the Universe around us is the best way to go. Like the Nietzsche quote you posted, if scientific fact proves a religious ideal wrong than that religious ideal needs to be abandoned not defended.



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