It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Japanese form human chain at US base

page: 6
29
<< 3  4  5    7 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on May, 17 2010 @ 08:27 AM
link   
reply to post by airspoon
 


Well because a nation without a military that is also a key US economic asset (import and export) is an obviously perfect way to screw America and attack it. It's essentially like asking why we should keep investing in future energy sources. It's necessary to keep economically alive and all that great stuff that has to do with not collapsing economically.




posted on May, 17 2010 @ 08:42 AM
link   
Good post and reply's.

The issue in Okinawa is the current prime minister promised to get rid of the bases. Prior to him there was an agreement to move 8,000 Marines and support personnel to Guam. The current PM told the US ya'll gotta go (Okinawa only) and then found out the agreement couldn't be modified the original or they stay in Okinawa. So he's backed down, and the local's are PO'd. Yes some of the residents want the US gone, business and government want the US to stay. One rumor is if they push too much the US will pick up completely from Okinawa and return to the mainland.

The Guam deal is the are supposed to pay a percentage (33% I think, can't find the article with the numbers) of the cost of relocating the troops. OK that sounds good. Oop's they demanded and got a deal that Japanese companies get 60% of the contracts on Guam! Exclusive. They forced a Japanese communication company on Guam for the contractors. And were working on Japanese only housing areas no locals allowed.

Having spent most of my adult life in Asia, I'm in complete agreement they hate everyone and everyone hates them. I've lived in Japan don't want to even fly through anymore.

Personally bring all the troops home, reality may be different.



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 08:44 AM
link   
reply to post by Gorman91
 


Well, considering the huge trade deficit that we have with Japan, I would consider it a bonus, especially when we can't even afford to take care of ourselves.

--airspoon



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 11:27 AM
link   

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by FreeSpeaker
 





When was I defending the deaths caused by the a-bomb, I was stating the Japanese knew they were taking a great risk in attacking the US, and even managed to screw up by delivering their decleration of war too late. Do you even know the estimates of Japanese deaths caused by the napalming of Japanese cities before the a-bomb?

Firebombing of Japan

The Japanese also commited atrocities against the chinese some consider worse even than what the germans did to the jews. Basically we can argue about atrocites commited by all sides of WW2 so I don't feel I need to "do better" or "defend" anything I said.


You are justifying the murder of thousands of innocent civilians by throwing all the other atrocities which occurred in WWII. Nice try.

Murder of civilians is just that, murder. You can't justify it because others also kill civilians.



Troll Warning! Troll Warning!

Please do not feed the troll! Starve it out so it moves on to disrupt other threads.



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 02:43 PM
link   
reply to post by airspoon
 


That's called the global economic collapse. If you haven't heard already, the world's in a bit of a deficit globally. You know what happens when each nation involved severs ties with each other and goes it alone?

World war.

[edit on 17-5-2010 by Gorman91]



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 04:35 PM
link   
reply to post by Gorman91
 


Are you serious? We have always (modern times) had a trade deficit with Japan and a rather large one. It has nothing to do with our current economy or the current state of world affairs.

Simply put, we import far more than we export to Japan and this isn't good at all. All in all, we are getting the short end of the stick with our trading relationship. Also, there is nothing that we buy from Japan that we can't do without or get somewhere else. That's even if our trade relationship gets severed, which it most likely wouldn't.

--airspoon



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 04:48 PM
link   
reply to post by airspoon
 


Seems like you do not understand international trade. The idea is simple. You import from some, export to others. The US, in modern times, is a primarily service based economy. We export to Japan in resources, and import some stuff. In modern times most of that is replaced by China, but we still consider Japan a close economic ally.

Also, you forget that Japan is often held as the "10 years from now" model for US economics. Japan has been a trade liability a bit in the 90s, then again recently. However, over all, they are a viable business partner.

You will find here that the derivative indicates that Japan WILL be a future benefactor in trade.

www.census.gov...



And you failed to talk about history repeating. Because the last time the US took an isolationist policy, a world war happened. And the time before that, another world war happened.

The simple fact is that the world is in a dumbfounded crap hole. Isn't it you who claimed that if a nation can offer help it should not matter who? Why the change of heart? Is it just because its the US who is offering the aid this time?



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 07:23 PM
link   
reply to post by Gorman91
 


O'd first like to address the last part of your post. It was me who said that if a nation is in a huge crisis, one of the world's biggest in modern times and another nation offers to help, yes we should take it, especially when it is the people and not the elite who suffer.

This thread is completely different. We can not afford to offer help to Japan when we can't even help ourselves. Japan is perfectly capable of taxing its own citizens for an adequate defense and should no longer be the burden of the tax-payer. My earlier thread on Iran's offer to help is apples to oranges with this issue.

The US is offering help and the Japanese have accepted. I think that it is about time that we withdraw our offer of help because the Japanese are completely capable of building their defenses without us. As you can clearly see, from the posts on ATS among other sources, we are not capable of containing this oil disaster. If Iran didn't offer to help, I would not be in favor of forcing them to do so.

As I have said earlier, just because the US population doesn't want a single-payer health care option, doesn't mean that another nation's citizens should be forced to provide one for us. Why should we be forced to provide defense for another capable country?

Moving right along...

I understand international trade perfectly, well just about as well as anyone else and it seems that you are the one not grasping the reality. The fact of the matter is that our trade relationship with Japan clearly favors Japan. Off the top of my head (from my memory), we import about $159 billion (with a "B") while we only export around $40 - 50 billion. There is nothing that we import from Japan that we either can't do without or can't be made right here in our own country.

A trade deficit is nothing to take lightly, especially when it doesn't equal out with trade relationships around the world. Right now, our over-all trade deficit is around $150,000,000,000 (or one hundred and fifty billion dollars). Clearly, we have an unequal trade balance with the rest of the world. It is only a matter of time that we can keep this up. So, all in all, I don't think it would hurt us to interrupt our trade relations with Japan, rather it could help us, the peasants. Our trade deficit with Japan would be one thing if we recouped through trade with someone else but quite simply, we do not.

Now, this is only on the extremely remote chance that Japan is attacked and defeated or otherwise invaded by a foreign enemy as a result of any possible withdraw from the islands of US forces. Again, such a scenario would be highly unlikely and therefore our trade relationship would pretty much stay the same or around the same.

Furthermore, I wouldn't say that we are a service based economy so much as service oriented economy. In reality, we are a consumer based economy, consuming far more than we produce thus consuming far more that we can afford.

In sum, if we pulled our military out of Japan, we would save a large sum of money that it takes to operate those bases and we could then focus our military's attention on where it's needed or called for by the Constitution. On the extremely remote chance that Japan is invaded or otherwise taken over by someone who wishes to sever trade relations with the sates, which again is another extremely unlikely chance, we would not really lose out but ultimately win. The chances of such a thing are so slim that it should not even enter into the equation. The point here, is that Japan take over its own defense with its own money. Many people believe, myself included that we would be much better off without our empire thus making it even pointless to care about Japan's defense capabilities, absent any emotional ties to its people.

--airspoon



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 08:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by airspoon

Also, you suggest that it was only 70 years ago and so wasn't long enough to start trusting them again. I happen to disagree with that statement. 70 years is a relatively long time, seeing how all of the decision makers of Japan, from that time, are mostly dead - if not all dead. The new batch of Japanese have little or no connection to their fascist siding forefathers.

I think Japan is one of the countries that we least need to worry about.

--airspoon


Quite right! I've lived in Japan for 2 years now and the people here are great. No-one really has hard feelings about the war even though Hiroshima and Nagasaki was completely fu**ed. The A-bomb museum in Hiroshima should be an eye opener for anyone who thinks that using Nukes is "OK". Mostly the Japanese people really dig USA/Europe and they all seem to be trying hard to learn English. There was even a new rule brought in that English teachers at public schools MUST be foreigners... i.e. Brit/Aussie/NZ/Canada/USA...



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 08:22 PM
link   
On another point....

"Bring the troops home"....Guys, they don't want to come home. It's a beautiful place in Okinawa. They're enjoying the weather, the girls and quite a lot of freedom too. There's tons of motorsports clubs, scuba diving, etc etc. Quite a lot of downtime to enjoy themselves. #, given a choice out of e.g. A Detroit Army Base or a Tropical Beautiful Girl Filled Okinawan Base....Not a hard choice there guys.

Also, the other point that seems to be being brushed over is the FACT that the Japanese tax-payer is paying for the base too and that's why they're pissed off.



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 08:27 PM
link   
"Send the troops home"




No thanks haha



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 09:26 PM
link   
I understand what your saying but the implications are a lot bigger than whether US troops want to be stationed somewhere cool. Even though the Japanese have costs to running the base, the biggest cost is that of the US government, thus the Amerian tax-payers. It is extremely expensive, logistically and personnel-wise, among many other costs.

Right now, my childrens' schools are trying to decide which programs to cut, after many programs have already been cut. This is not limited to my children's schools only as it is happening across the country. Also, we have crumbling infrastructure, homeless veterans and people losing their livlihoods due to over-taxation. At this current time with supporting the banks and the large corporations, we just don't have enough money to be supporting other countries as well. Why should my children's educaion be sacrificed for the benefit of the Japanese? Can't they sacrifice their own children's education? Why should my family have to carry that burden?

--airspoon



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 08:45 AM
link   

Originally posted by airspoon
Even though the Japanese have costs to running the base, the biggest cost is that of the US government, thus the Amerian tax-payers. It is extremely expensive, logistically and personnel-wise, among many other costs.

Right now, my childrens' schools are trying to decide which programs to cut, after many programs have already been cut. --airspoon


Do you really think that any money saved from shutting down the bases in Japan would make it to your children's school district or fix crumbling infrastructure? Any money saved by shutting them down would only be transfered to other defense related projects or activities, certainly not transfered to domestic spending.



[edit on 18-5-2010 by FreeSpeaker]



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 11:17 AM
link   
reply to post by FreeSpeaker
 


I realize that the money would not get reappropriated for domestic issues however, we have to start somewhere and overseas bases are as good as anything else. If we say, "oh well, changing this won't do much so we might as well not even bother", then we will never get anywhere.

--airspoon



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 11:40 AM
link   

Originally posted by airspoon
reply to post by FreeSpeaker
 

If we say, "oh well, changing this won't do much so we might as well not even bother", then we will never get anywhere.

--airspoon


Agreed, but the correct things have to be changed. The US needs to cut its defense spending, just closing bases or scrapping projects only to have the funds allocated to other defense projects is pointless. Fix the cause not the symptons.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 12:30 PM
link   
reply to post by FreeSpeaker
 


Closing bases would weaken our empire and with a weak empire, we then have to adjust strategy. I think that closing overseas bases is a very good strep in the right direction. Only cutting the defense budget would wind up hurting the soldiers and sailors because the remaining budget would just go to the useless and/or over-priced weapons of the Military Industrial Complex. I think that if our forces started to leave foreign countries, that would send an extremely positive message to the world.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 09:52 PM
link   
reply to post by nite owl
 


A large number of Canadian Rescue teams went down to rescue survivors.
As for financial aid... who has more money than the USA? That would almost be like asking Superman if he needs help carrying the couch.

I agree that USA shouldn't be asked to stop all the world's troubles. That is actually what makes a nation free: being able to meet it's own needs, whether economic, or military.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 10:06 PM
link   
reply to post by i944002
 


The YOUTH in Japan committed attrocities in WW2?

Hey! What hatreds could be laid at YOUR door, because of what was done by people of your race/creed/country ?

There comes a time to forgive, but noone says forget.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 10:12 PM
link   
reply to post by FreeSpeaker
 





Agreed, but the correct things have to be changed. The US needs to cut its defense spending, just closing bases or scrapping projects only to have the funds allocated to other defense projects is pointless. Fix the cause not the symptons.


It seems voting doesn't fix the cause, so what is your plan?

I'm willing to listen.

If a whole Democratic nation is insane, and you are the only sane, would you be regarded as insane?

How can you solve such a complex situation?



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 10:21 PM
link   
reply to post by airspoon
 


===========================================

Funny your words are almost exactly what a retired Army general
mentioned to me in a conversation in 2009. He felt like Germany should also be added to that list.


How many years has it been since WWII ended. The answer is 65 years ago. Time for us to move on.


[edit on 21-5-2010 by manta78]



new topics

top topics



 
29
<< 3  4  5    7 >>

log in

join