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Japanese form human chain at US base

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posted on May, 16 2010 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by Gigantea Rosa
Well the cold war is over so America really doesn't need to be there to fight it from a closer front. Japan already has Land, air and sea forces for protection so America isn't really needed to protect Japan at this point. So what is the purpose of us [America] being over there? There doesn't seem to be a lot of numbers for them, but at the same time they aren't really expecting an attack.



The Self Defense Force's purpose is to preserve peace, public order and Japan's independence and safety. About 6% of the national budget is spent on national defense (2005). Military service is voluntary. The force has about 250,000 members. Supreme commander is the Prime Minister.


www.japan-guide.com...

So I must ask what is the purpose for us being there now? I may have missed something, that happened that called for America to be there but I'm not sure. Even in my Japanese History and Culture class I couldn't decipher a reason in the midst of class, though I did figure out the whys' of the past, but what of the whys' of now?


I wouldn't say the cold war's over, unless you like defeat. It just landed here, that's all.


Times may change, but the ways and means of fascism never do. Same ****, different day. Though our mock administration has welcomed and embraced totalitarian tactics, there's still a long way to go (or not so long) until a bullet in the back of the head and junior spies are standard, here. The measures they are using are enabled by technology and it's minions of greed. Since a large percentage of citizens are ignorant of the new technology, they'll never understand when the bullet hits them. It makes no noise, this time.

You'll find that these groups tend to migrate wherever they need to go, whenever they need to do it. For the time being, we are tolerating 'them' here. Don't believe the hype. Cold war's just started. One world government is really pissed that they did not get their way, in their lifetimes.




posted on May, 16 2010 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by nite owl
reply to post by FreeSpeaker
 


you did not read the washington post about where funds for katrina went. cause if you did you would notice that alot of funds from overseas were turned down and the ones that got here," people effected by katrina" did not get, it went somewhere else. SO , EVEN IF A COUNTRY DID try to help it never got there. So the countries that did try to help either got turned down or the funds went somewhere else. SO, if funds go somewhere else ,how can you honestly say that your money got to them. GEE, i gave but they did not get it anyway. hmmmm, so tell me. If i say i gave you a dollar and you say you did not get it and i sent it to you, well i guess i gave . hmmmmmmm whats wrong with this picture. see what im saying now?


I really care not if your corrupt government took the money we gave for Katrina and paid illegal immigrants health care cost with it, thats your problem. Just don't go about saying other countries don't help the US after they have generously assisted you.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by FreeSpeaker
 


Now you understand why i said, AMERICA WAKE UP. THANK YOU.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by airspoon
 


Japan is part of the US empire, they won't leave, that is not an option.

Everyone wants America out, people are dying and killing to get the Americans out, don't even pretend this is not something common. An unjust empire will never last long.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 05:14 PM
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reply to post by i944002
 



Perhaps the youth in Japan need a reminder of the atrocities they committed during WW2.


Actually, the Japanese youth aren't really taught about WWII. Many of them are oblivious to what occurred. The war is seen as a disgrace to them and so the elders would rather it be forgotten. Regardless, it was not the Japanese youth who took part in anything so it is neither their fault or in their control as to what happened.

--airspoon



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by FreeSpeaker

Another point that worries me is I can't find a single example in history where a culture has built such a vast military force without using it to expand its power or empire.

[edit on 16-5-2010 by FreeSpeaker]


1930's France.... Actually, just about anything French after Napoleon.

China is expanding rapidly. They have many internal problems that will keep them busy for a few years. They are building a blue water navy so time will tell.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by FreeSpeaker
 





Maybe these days thats how they feel but don't forget, Japan attacked the US without a declaration of war during WW2 and ultimatly ended up paying dearly for that mistake. The code of honor that was present in the Japanese culture at that time was amazing and when the Emperor surrendered so did the entire population without complaint. They knew they roled the dice and accepted the consequences of their actions.

Is that the best you can do defending the murder of thousands of innocent civilians?

LOL

Seriously, I can defend Hitler better than that.

Jews blew up German buildings, they rolled the dice and face the consequences.

You have to do better than that mate.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by airspoon
Regardless, it was not the Japanese youth who took part in anything so it is neither their fault or in their control as to what happened.


True. It's like blaming some US Southern for slavery, but everyone should learn about their country's history.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by oozyism
Is that the best you can do defending the murder of thousands of innocent civilians?


You mean the thousands of innocent civilians that the Imperial Japanese Army murdered during the Rape of Nanking?



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by jerico65
 





You mean the thousands of innocent civilians that the Imperial Japanese Army murdered during the Rape of Nanking?


And is that the best you can come up with defending the Murder of thousands of innocent civilians?



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by JMech
 


I was stationed in Okinawa from 92-94, there are several bases on that island, all branches of the military. If we pulled all the bases off Okinawa we would have to help "bail out" their economy on the island.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


Lets not forget that the Japanese warned us that they were coming to bomb Pearl Harbor, as to not catch us completely by surprise. Also, we provoked Japan to bomb us. We were sending supplies and weapons to Japan's enemies, after we declared ourselves neutral, basically asking to be attacked since the sending of those supplies and weapons was negating our neutral stance.

As far as the Germans against the Jews. Does everyone know why the Germans hated the Jews?

Well, it dates back to WWI. Before and during WWI, Germany was a safe haven for Jews across the world. Nobody more accommodating to the Jewish population than the German nation. Then during WWI, the Germans kicked the allies butts and came to the peace table offering very generous peace terms, essentially for everything to go back to the way it was before the war. You couldn't get better peace terms than that. Germany wasn't wanting any land or money, only to let bygones be bygones.

Well, the Jews, just having revolted in Russia and also after setting up the Federal Reserve Act in the States, wanted to make Germany socialist. So, what the Jews did, before Europe surrendered to Germany (without losing anything), was they talked America into entering the war, on behalf of the allies so that Germany would not be the victor and they would have a better shot at socialism in Bavaria and the greater Germany. They used their newly found influence with US Banks and industry to pressure the US into war with Germany, after Germany all but won the war.

You have to realize, that up until this time, Germany was our [America's] ally. We even used to have German U-Boats dock in our harbors and we would throw parades for them. At that time, it was unheard of that we would go to war against Germany. They were our friends. Well, with the help of the Jewish owned movie industry (among others) that lobbied the American people, we finally declared war with Germany and wiped their butts with their former so called victory. Then came the devastating treaty after our victory that impoverished Germany and made her lose a lot of territory.

The Germans at the time of the defeat didn't realize what had happened for them to lose the war. They just thought that America had betrayed her. Then, it became public (it was leaked), the agreement between the Britts, German Jews and Americans. The German people couldn't understand why the Jews would sell them out, after Germany was so accommodating to them. The Germans began to turn on their Jewish brothers, and this ultimately helped the Nazi Party seize victory in Germany.

It's not that the Germans hated Jews because they were Jewish, but rather because they had betrayed the German people, making them lose the war and ultimately impoverishing the German nation, only after Germany had all but won the war and offered a very lucrative peace offer to the *allies.

It's all there for anyone to research. It's just that they don't teach us this in public schools because it's seen as anti-jewish. I'm Jewish, and believe me, this isn't some jewish conspiracy, rather it's a zionist conspiracy and what I speak of is absolutely true and verifiable for anyone to research.

--airspoon.


[edit on 16-5-2010 by airspoon]



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 06:25 PM
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I think is misconception of Americans to think the bases around the world today is to protect the others countries from some external enemy. The bases in another countries is not a signal that USA is there to protect them... They are there to protect their influence in that country and other around there. It's just for power and influence. Protection, are you f* kidding?


[edit on 16/5/10 by blackcube]



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by oozyism
Is that the best you can do defending the murder of thousands of innocent civilians?

LOL

Seriously, I can defend Hitler better than that.

Jews blew up German buildings, they rolled the dice and face the consequences.

You have to do better than that mate.


When was I defending the deaths caused by the a-bomb, I was stating the Japanese knew they were taking a great risk in attacking the US, and even managed to screw up by delivering their decleration of war too late. Do you even know the estimates of Japanese deaths caused by the napalming of Japanese cities before the a-bomb?

Firebombing of Japan

The Japanese also commited atrocities against the chinese some consider worse even than what the germans did to the jews. Basically we can argue about atrocites commited by all sides of WW2 so I don't feel I need to "do better" or "defend" anything I said.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 06:45 PM
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considering that the situation between North and South Korea is continuing to escalate, it would be foolish to pull American troops from Japan. Especially when one considers that such a conflict would ultimately be a proxy war between the U.S. and China. I don't know why so many people think that America is the only aggressor in this world, as there are many hostile nations and tensions are running high amid economic chaos. Yes, America is at war right now in the middle east, but many other world powers are still there right alongside American soldiers. I don't agree with war but the facts are still facts, and the fact of the matter is we live in a violent world that is perpetuated by many nations, groups and corporations.

The Potsdam Declaration acceptance and Article 9 of the Japanese Constitution pretty much sum up why the U.S. maintains a base in Japan, not to mention that the Japanese government willingly re-leased the base to the U.S.

I've got to say this to the people that are loving on China in this thread; There are many "bad guys" in this world, America is not the only one, and I find it strange that so many people immediately run to the opposition just because they don't like America. For those that think China is the land of milk and honey, don't forget that the milk is tainted with melamine and the honey is adulterated with pesticides, antibiotics, corn syrup and sugar.

edit: honey facts

[edit on 16-5-2010 by Cobra5000]



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 06:50 PM
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Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by jerico65
 





You mean the thousands of innocent civilians that the Imperial Japanese Army murdered during the Rape of Nanking?


And is that the best you can come up with defending the Murder of thousands of innocent civilians?


I think it's pretty good.

You can also add the Bataan Death March to the mix if you want. Japanese soldiers weren't too friendly to the Brits in Singapore, either. During/after the Doolittle Raid, the Japanese killed about 250,000 Chinese civilians as pay-back.

How's that?



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by airspoon
Lets not forget that the Japanese warned us that they were coming to bomb Pearl Harbor, as to not catch us completely by surprise.


They did? They warned the US that they were going to bomb Pearl Harbor??



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 07:26 PM
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reply to post by signal2noise
 


They did? They warned the US that they were going to bomb Pearl Harbor??

They sure did. The Japanese, directly before launching their planes off the decks of their ships or abuot one half hour before the raid, gave us a courtesy warning that they were about to immense an attack on PEarl Harbor and also that they were officially declaring war. It was a standard honorable practice for Japanese generals and admirals to do such a thing.


The attack took place before any formal declaration of war was made by Japan, but this was not Admiral Yamamoto's intention. He originally stipulated that the attack should not commence until thirty minutes after Japan had informed the United States that peace negotiations were at an end.[45] The Japanese tried to uphold the conventions of war while still achieving surprise, but the attack began before the notice could be delivered. Tokyo transmitted the 5,000-word notification (commonly called the "14-Part Message") in two blocks to the Japanese Embassy in Washington, but transcribing the message took too long for the Japanese Ambassador to deliver it in time. (In fact, U.S. code breakers had already deciphered and translated most of the message hours before he was scheduled to deliver it.)[46] The final part of the "14-Part Message" is sometimes described as a declaration of war, but in fact it "neither declared war nor severed diplomatic relations".[47] A declaration of war was printed on the front page of Japan's newspapers in the evening edition of December 8,[48] but not delivered to the U.S. government until the day after the attack.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.
Source: Wikipedia

Many historians believe this statement not to be accurate, however whether you believe this to be accurate or not has no significance to the intent to warn America by the Japanese. Regardless of how or when the warning got to American officials, it was still sent by the Japanese and their intentions were crystal clear, to warn the US of an imminent attack by the Japanese for the US breaking her neutrality agreement.


--airspoon

Edited to add: Not only did the Japanese send a warning, but our own radar, which was brand new at the time, clearly picked up the first wave of planes coming in to attack the harbor. It is said that the radar operator only mentioned "many planes" instead of the 60 - 70 planes he saw on radar so the operators message was interpreted to suggest he was referring to our own planes expected in on that day. However, many people, including myself, believe this to be false and that the US needed the attack to devastate the base in order to propel America into the war. This is why many historians also believe that the message about the attack on Pearl Harbor, the one sent by Japan one half hour prior, also made it on time and America clearly knew Japan was about to attack the harbor. History is written by the victor.

Also, due to lack of time, I sourced wikipedia which I believe to be inaccurate on this topic. However, my intentions for sourcing them in the first place was only to show intention of the Japanese to warn America, which it clearly does state. If I find more time a little later, I'll find more accurate sources that reflect what many believe.

--airspoon


[edit on 16-5-2010 by airspoon]

[edit on 16-5-2010 by airspoon]



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 07:42 PM
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Originally posted by airspoon

Actually, the Japanese youth aren't really taught about WWII. Many of them are oblivious to what occurred. The war is seen as a disgrace to them and so the elders would rather it be forgotten.


Utter nonsense.

Children begin to learn about the war here at the beginning of Elementary school. The introduction tends to be in the form of a trip to the local museum, talks from people who remember it, and so forth. Once they reach middle school and have enough background to start looking at international politics, the war is introduced in History class, and English translations of their textbooks are available here. As they progress through middle school and into High School, the topic is dealt with in greater depth - including the controversial issues like Nanking, biological weapons research, and so forth. If they watch TV, they'll see things about the war. If they go to a bookstore, they'll see quite a bit about it. If they want to know why it all happened, they can read about it (unlike in Germany, where publication of the seminal texts (Mein Kampf and other materials) are prohibited by law.

Back to the OP.

This protest is not about the US being in Japan, it's about this ONE small air station that has been a political football for a few years now. Public pressure to move the station began in 1995 when 3 marines gang raped a 12 year old girl near the base. - and there have been numerous incidents over the years (ranging from petty theft to helicopter crashes to the daily noise) that have kept the momentum going.

The existing agreement on US troop reassignment dealt with the relocation of this station, but the current government has tried to amend it. Some voices in Tokyo want it to stay where it is, others want it to move elsewhere to the agreement, and others still are in favor of the original agreement.

The protest - in a nutshell - was comprised of people who want the base gone from where it is now. Some want it moved to where it's scheduled to move (offshore), some want it to move elsewhere in Okinawa, and a few want all 47,000+ US forces to leave entirely. The latter would be the minority, though.

How much is all this costing? The whole plan is up in the air, but Japan is paying the majority of the cost. The move of other forces to Guam is costing $10.2 billion, of which Japan has paid $6.1 billion so far for construction of the new base and surrounding infrastructure. The costs for the Futenma relocation will be released whenever agreement is finalized, but it's safe to assume that it'll be on the same 60-40 split.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 07:47 PM
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Originally posted by airspoon
They sure did.

Source: Wikipedia


"Trying to warn", "Intending to warn" are a lot different from actually warning. As your source said, they tried, but it was late, and the transmission was fully received until the attack started. So, it's still a surprise attack against Pearl.


Originally posted by airspoon
Edited to add: Not only did the Japanese send a warning, but our own radar, which was brand new at the time, clearly picked up the first wave of planes coming in to attack the harbor. It is said that the radar operator only mentioned "many planes" instead of the 60 - 70 planes he saw on radar so the operators message was interpreted to suggest he was referring to our own planes expected in on that day. However, many people, including myself, believe this to be false and that the US needed the attack to devastate the base in order to propel America into the war. This is why many historians also believe that the message about the attack on Pearl Harbor, the one sent by Japan one half hour prior, also made it on time and America clearly knew Japan was about to attack the harbor. History is written by the victor.


That's your opinion and I've heard that same thing from others. Other people believe that the radar operator thought they were B17s from the mainland that they were scheduled to receive.



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