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Main EU leaders call for United States of Europe..

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posted on May, 19 2010 @ 09:41 AM
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Originally posted by alienesque
a constitution means everything..it protects a people from such things..from corruption..and from slavery...the fact that you think they are useless frankly explains everything you have been saying....


Are you American by any chance?

And where did I say a constitution is useless?

And a constitution doesn't protect people.. The laws and rights allowed to form as a result of the constitution does.. The is a difference.. A big difference..

If Constitutions are so all knowing and wise, how come they are constantly changed and amended?

***Edit to add***

You have to be a Yank.. Its the only logical explanation for what you said about constitutions.. No European would say anything like that because we were never fed any of that stuff...

[edit on 19/5/10 by Dermo]




posted on May, 19 2010 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by thoughtsfull
 


I understand what you are saying, and that in itself should be warning enough that this government is just as pro-Europe as previous one's.

But the people will not allow Britain to become a part of some super state United States Of Europe.

The mere thought disgusts me.



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


Read this article mate.. www.globalresearch.ca...

Especially the IMF and UK part.. Interesting incite.



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by Dermo
reply to post by Freeborn
 


Read this article mate.. www.globalresearch.ca...

Especially the IMF and UK part.. Interesting incite.


dermo...you seem to always imply most people want the eu and the euro...is this really your opinion?

judging by the responses on every article ive seen regarding the EU recently about 70% or people responding want out....

is that democracy?



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by alienesque
dermo...you seem to always imply most people want the eu and the euro...is this really your opinion?

judging by the responses on every article ive seen regarding the EU recently about 70% or people responding want out....

is that democracy?


1) We are on a conspiracy site so that kind of thinking is encouraged..

2) If there was a pan EU vote on whether or not to leave the EU.. It would be a resounding NO! Because Europeans aren't stupid enough not to realize the EU has brought us peace and prosperity after thousands of years of tribal warfare..

3) You haven't answered my question.. Are you an American?

[edit on 19/5/10 by Dermo]



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 02:23 PM
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reply to post by Dermo
 


I've been following this thread quietly but your latest claim made me post.

Oh please Dermo, wake up! It's not EU that had given peace to the community. It had been NATO, the american consumers and rich asians that had done that.

EU politically, socially, and economically is only but a figment of imagination.

The only time that such idealism will come will be future generations who are willing to throw down their baggages from the past history. And that's a long time yet. Not today. More so with the incompetence of greedy and rapacious european leaders we have today. ( Heck, some will not pay taxes, and some will even charge horse manure to taxpayers! See the problem, buddy?)



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by thoughtsfull
 


I understand what you are saying, and that in itself should be warning enough that this government is just as pro-Europe as previous one's.

But the people will not allow Britain to become a part of some super state United States Of Europe.

The mere thought disgusts me.


I vote LibDem, and would still vote to withdraw from the EU should we be given the opportunity. It is far to bureaucratic and illiberal for my tastes...

The issue is that all the main parties support the line of keeping the truth of the situation from the British people. so your right on your assessment of all the parties.



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
I've been following this thread quietly but your latest claim made me post.

Oh please Dermo, wake up! It's not EU that had given peace to the community. It had been NATO, the american consumers and rich asians that had done that.

EU politically, socially, and economically is only but a figment of imagination.

The only time that such idealism will come will be future generations who are willing to throw down their baggages from the past history. And that's a long time yet. Not today. More so with the incompetence of greedy and rapacious european leaders we have today. ( Heck, some will not pay taxes, and some will even charge horse manure to taxpayers! See the problem, buddy?)



Well then.. you should write to the Commission in Brussels and tell them they are but a figment of the imagination..

And Yes, I know history so I know why peace is there and internally, it was more the Coal and Steel treaty than NATO.. And That turned into the EU over the years.. And while the American consumer helped rebuild the economy, the fact remains that without the EU/EEC/EC/Coal and Steel treaty, tensions would remain..

Borders would be shut..

There would be no free market..

There would be no sense of solidarity, no matter how hard the birthing pangs may be..

There would be continued hatred, continued historical disdain, continued mistrust.. All you have to do is see how different the Brits to other Europeans in relation to how continentals interact with each other to see what happens when we are separated..

And thats all but gone because a small bit of that nationalism that has created that disdain and hatred has been replaced around the continent in a Blue flag with some yellow stars..

And as much as you are trying to play that fact down.. It still remains a fact..

So you wake up.

And as you say..


The only time that such idealism will come will be future generations who are willing to throw down their baggages from the past history


When someone or some people come along right now who has this type of idealism, they are torn apart by small minded people who cannot see past their own personal issues.. This site is a prime example for that.. They are called corrupt even though there is no proof and ridiculous conspiracy theories fly all around them about how they want to exterminate mankind for absolutely no reason.. Or enslave everyone in some V for Vandetta type New World Order..

So what would you like me to do when I wake up? Should I not stop trying to counter the nonsense that constantly appears here... give up altogether on any idea that we can all live together and just let some dumbass extreme viewed right wing gob#es rant on about things they no nothing about because they can't get their head around the notion of a unified mankind?

I'd prefer to be the idealist tbh.. At least that way, I can say I tried to do something half decent for the rest of us..



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 02:35 AM
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Originally posted by Dermo

Originally posted by alienesque
dermo...you seem to always imply most people want the eu and the euro...is this really your opinion?

judging by the responses on every article ive seen regarding the EU recently about 70% or people responding want out....

is that democracy?


1) We are on a conspiracy site so that kind of thinking is encouraged..

2) If there was a pan EU vote on whether or not to leave the EU.. It would be a resounding NO! Because Europeans aren't stupid enough not to realize the EU has brought us peace and prosperity after thousands of years of tribal warfare..

3) You haven't answered my question.. Are you an American?

[edit on 19/5/10 by Dermo]


1...i dont understand your answer..sorry..
2..i doubt it...every vote so far ended in a no vote..before the EU started terrorizing and propagandizing people..every article i have read is full of comments from people saying they want OUT..both in germany and the UK...why do you think they wont give us a referendum?

you can bet your bottom dollar if they knew there would be a yes vote we would have a vote tomorrow.

3..no..

[edit on 20-5-2010 by alienesque]



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 05:31 AM
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reply to post by alienesque
 


I think you may be lying a little bit!!!!


You're not German.. You're not US military and you have a Germany wife but you're not European..

You talk like a Yank, think like other Yanks on this site..

Hmmmm... So your opinion on how Europeans feel might be a little bit off seeing as you may not 100% be able to understand the issues at hand..

I think it may be save to say that have lost some more credibility in regards this subject.. Im gonna leave this conversation alone now



Originally posted by alienesque
are you a non german in germany?
i am

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by alienesque
im not military...and my wife is also german..

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 05:44 AM
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Originally posted by Dermo
reply to post by alienesque
 


I think you may be lying a little bit!!!!


You're not German.. You're not US military and you have a Germany wife but you're not European..

You talk like a Yank, think like other Yanks on this site..

Hmmmm... So your opinion on how Europeans feel might be a little bit off seeing as you may not 100% be able to understand the issues at hand..

I think it may be save to say that have lost some more credibility in regards this subject.. Im gonna leave this conversation alone now



Originally posted by alienesque
are you a non german in germany?
i am

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by alienesque
im not military...and my wife is also german..

www.abovetopsecret.com...


when did i say i wasnt european?..well...im not..im english...but i guess you would say that makes me european so i for you..i am...

so..im english..i live in germany...and i have no right to speak on EU matters?..crazy..sorry...

im pretty sure that most people in europe do not want the euro or the EU....and the people in brussels know that too...what does the country of my birth...where i was born...have to do with that?

[edit on 20-5-2010 by alienesque]



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 06:01 AM
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Originally posted by alienesque
when did i say i wasnt european?..well...im not..im english...but i guess you would say that makes me european so i for you..i am...

so..im english..i live in germany...and i have no right to speak on EU matters?..crazy..sorry...

im pretty sure that most people in europe do not want the euro or the EU....and the people in brussels know that too...what does the country of my birth...where i was born...have to do with that?


Well, if you're English living in Germany, then I can't exactly say anything coz Im Irish living in Germany


I dunno dude, as many people as I know who dislike the EU, there's an equal amount who consider themselves "Europeans" and love what it has done for the place.. Then the majority of the rest are too stupid or detached to even know what it does in the first place..

Everyone has an opinion.. You're is obviously Anti EU.. Im no fan of the EU institutions but really appreciate European Unity..

Look im finished with this conversation because Im sick of going around in bollox circles with you so have a nice Anti EU experience
And Im probably not going to reply to you anymore on other threads in regards this topic because I don't see a point.. You disapprove of it, Im objective towards it.. Rock vs a hard place..




posted on May, 20 2010 @ 06:12 AM
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reply to post by Dermo
 


The majority of continental Europeans may inded be in favour of a fully unified Europe.

I can't believe for one moment though that The Irish would give up their independance.
I know quite a few Irish and whilst they are more pro-European than us Brits, probably because they have actually benefitted from the EU, but they baulk at the notion of full union.

And I assure you, despite the wishes of our politicians, we Brits will never allow the UK to be a part of it.
But unfortunately TPTB have so much control over our MSM that they consistently fail to report on the continued illegal transfer of power to Brussels.
But there will come a point where we will say, "Enough is enough"



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 06:46 AM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by Dermo
 


1..The majority of continental Europeans may inded be in favour of a fully unified Europe.

I can't believe for one moment though that The Irish would give up their independance.
I know quite a few Irish and whilst they are more pro-European than us Brits, probably because they have actually benefitted from the EU, but they baulk at the notion of full union.

2..And I assure you, despite the wishes of our politicians, we Brits will never allow the UK to be a part of it.
But unfortunately TPTB have so much control over our MSM that they consistently fail to report on the continued illegal transfer of power to Brussels.
But there will come a point where we will say, "Enough is enough"


1. they are not....i obviously cant prove that but im 100% sure the outcome would clearly be NO...

2...i sincerely hope your right...ive got a feeling people just dont know anything about whats going on at all....

[edit on 20-5-2010 by alienesque]



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 06:59 AM
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reply to post by alienesque
 


The Political elite, the Establishment (institutions etc) and MSM keep the British public in the dark as to what is really going on with our membership of the EU.

On the one hand we are in the club almost on the same footing as any other EU nation, while being kept in complete limbo as to being participating members of the club.

Even if Say the LibDems got in power and wanted to push for Closer (in other words more open) relationship with the EU I honestly can not see France or Germany budging over to let Britain have a greater say in how the EU is developed..

That central club of 2 won't want someone else competing, hence why I feel the real nature of position is kept quiet.. be nnice to see some honest politicains for a change, who would be honest about our position in the EU, but I really do not expect that to happen anytime soon.



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 07:07 AM
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reply to post by alienesque
 


Continental Europeans are definately more pro-European than Brits.

Are the Pro-Europeans in the majority?
I don't know, I would guess, (I hate guessing), that it varies from country to country.

The majority in the UK don't know exactly how much power has been illegally transfered to Brussels simply because MSM does not report on it much or in a way that it is taken seriously.

Sensationalism of the trivial distracts from the important.

[edit on 20/5/10 by Freeborn]



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 07:15 AM
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reply to post by thoughtsfull
 


We don't have 'honest politicians', the mere existence of our current government proves this.

We have carear politicians whose sole aim is personal advancement and the pursuit of power and are prepared to compromise all of their opinions and beliefs to achieve their goals.

But if this transfer of power continues then it will become so apparent that even the most politically naive and ignorant will be aware of what is going on.



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 07:30 AM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by thoughtsfull
 


We don't have 'honest politicians', the mere existence of our current government proves this.

We have carear politicians whose sole aim is personal advancement and the pursuit of power and are prepared to compromise all of their opinions and beliefs to achieve their goals.

But if this transfer of power continues then it will become so apparent that even the most politically naive and ignorant will be aware of what is going on.


I quite agree, tho I blame the old lot back as far as the 60s as much as I blame the new lot..

the issue is how much of the laws do our lot actually create, what scope do they really have? I don't actually feel it is that great.. no more say than some local council.. so devolving parlimentry power is not such a big thing for them, since I don't really feel they hold any true power any more.

(note: They could if they wanted to, but I really don't feel they want to break up the cushy relationship they have with the EU)

It was why I feel most parties failed to produce uplifting manifestos since they are all bound by similar EU ties and agreements.. we had the wet, wetter or Westest parties to vote for...

IMHO it will bite them on the behind tho, as at some point soon their collusion is quite unmissable, and will simply bring what is left of our parlimentary system into deeper disrepute with the population.

The fiscal changes we are about to undergo as will the EU will see a twinning of the systems that will parallel each other... it'll be interesting as to how they explain that away.. I think some of the cracks will start to show then..

But we shall see...



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 04:11 PM
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Hi Dermo...

A little interesting tit bit of info for you (may amount to nothing) but it seems the current plans and changes by the Eurozone may mean the Lisbon treaty needs tweaking, which in turn will need the ratification of all 27 members.

Given David Cameron's promises that no changes will occur without going to referendum, Tho this situation may back him so far into a corner that he'll have no option but to offer the UK a referendum on EU membership itself..

If the UK does extract itself from the EU does that put Ireland in a bind on transporting goods through a non EU nation?

All down to whether the changes they are discussing means renegotiating the Lisbon treaty...

Interesting times indeed...



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by thoughtsfull
 


Hmmm.. That could be pretty interesting actually..

The only thing is.. I was under the impression that because of the language of the Lisbon treaty, any new constitutional changes were to be voted on by state parliaments rather than the populations of each states.. Another "Beautiful" addition to the "EU constitution"..

Did you hear differently?

I know my question might come across badly.. Just back from a few pints.. Can't word it any better at this time in the morning lol..




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